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Will there be a change from Concealed Carry to Open Carry?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by usmarine0352_2005, Dec 28, 2010.

  1. usmarine0352_2005

    usmarine0352_2005 Well-Known Member


    If I'm correct, when the Constitution was written it pertained to Open Carry, as Concealed Carry was more for criminals.

    So if we keep winning legal battles do you see the courts choosing Open Carry over Concealed Carry?

    Do you think States would be allowed to decide on Open vs. Concealed Carry or would there would be Federal decision that all states would abide by?

  2. hiawatha

    hiawatha Well-Known Member

    Arkansas is really weird about that. Getting a CCP is pretty easy, but if you have one and your weapon becomes visible, even accidentally, you can be in big trouble!
  3. Caliper_Mi

    Caliper_Mi Well-Known Member

    It is my understanding that right now there is no Federal law regarding either OC or CC, so the states are currently free to decide. CC may have been more associated with the criminal element at a certain time, but people both good and bad have been hiding firearms underneath various articles of clothing almost as long as there have been firearms and I don't see how the 2A would prevent CC. I'll wager most of the Founding Fathers understood discretion and why an honest man would choose to conceal a weapon ;). If we keep winning the right legal battles, I could see a Federal (probably through SCOTUS) requirement for some form of shall-issue CC permit to be made available in all states. Would rather be free like Az and not have to get a permit in order to exercise my rights though.
  4. Geckgo

    Geckgo Well-Known Member

    In louisiana, OC is legal statewide without a permit. I don't know if townships or parishes can overrule this or not, as I haven't read the state constitution in a while. But nobody open carries except the police. At least, not so many that you would ever notice venturing through. So, no, the feds don't chime in on OC or CC, it's up to the state.
  5. AKPastor

    AKPastor Well-Known Member

    OC and CC in Alaska without a permit. The only time I hear any grief is because some tourist gets scared by the sight of a gun. I don't know ho y'all can live like you do in some states.

    SMITHWESS Member

    "Constitutional carry" is the only thing that will satisfy me, in all states. But I think that will take some time. And that's a crying shame.
  7. atlctyslkr

    atlctyslkr Well-Known Member

    Eventually there will be some Fedearl Ruling that should/will clear all of this up but it may take some time. A National permit would be best, permits for all non-felons, no restrictions on posession at home.
  8. piranha45

    piranha45 Well-Known Member

    i was told by a senior that concealed-carry permits are more helpful to law enforcement, since a visible gun in concealed-carry laws warrants an investigation.

    Allowing citizens to open-carry basically takes away the right of law enforcement to investigate whether a person is legally carrying a firearm or not. Apparently, biker-gangs waltzing about with their pistols are a problem in some areas, and giving them the option of open-carry weakens law enforcement's ability to keep tabs on whether they are lawfully carrying those weapons or not.

    personally it still seems like open-carry should be the proper way; it does weaken law enforcement though...
  9. sansone

    sansone Well-Known Member

    here in FL we are pretty tolerant of firearms and tourism is a major cash-crop. The two don't mix well, tourists spotting a gun-grip for even a brief moment can wreck a theme park's day. On topic: open carry is not legal statewide. Some counties will ignore open carry but State Troopers enforce state laws so you can get in trouble. Even with a Conceal permit you are not permitted to expose any part of the gun
  10. rocky1

    rocky1 Well-Known Member

    Don't see it ever happening...

    1.) There were not nearly as many people in the country at the time the constitution was written.

    2.) There were not nearly as many reporters in the country at the time the constitution was written.

    3.) There were not nearly as many no-minded busy bodies that thought they knew more about how you should conduct your life than you could ever possibly know in the country at the time the constitution was written. (Mostly because they all got shot!)
  11. Dreamcast270mhz

    Dreamcast270mhz Well-Known Member

    Open carry still gives law enforcement the right to investigate, but it makes it legal, if you own the gun you carry and such, to display it openly, something that I have littel issue with. I wish VA would allow open carry, would allow people I know to avoid being harassed by delinquents. I mean, who would approach a person carrying a shotgun with intent to hurt?
  12. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

    Excuse me?!? Where does this "right" of law enforcement to investigate whether a person is legally carrying a firearm or not come from?

    Let me provide an example. You are sitting in McDonald's eating lunch with two children. Do you think LEO has the "right" to come up to you, question you as to whether those children are yours or not, and produce identification for you and your kids to prove you are lawfully in possession of those kids?!? Kidnapping is a crime you know, and LEO walking into McDonald's and seeing you eating lunch with two kids has no idea whether those kids are yours or not, or whether you are a kidnapper or not.

    Why are firearms any different?

    Put yourself in the cops shoes for a moment. Which would you rather see, a "biker-gang" walking down the street with no visible weapons and have to guess if they are armed or not; or would you rather see a "biker-gang" walking down the street with pistols clearly worn out in the open in holsters on their belts? Would you rather KNOW where the guns are, or would you rather GUESS where the guns are?!?

    As stated above, open carry in no way weakens law enforcement, it strengthens law enforcement. A cop has no way of knowing where a gun is concealed until he finds it in a search, or it is probably too late. With open carry, the cop knows who is armed and where the gun is. If open carry is legal, such as in Washington, and a cop sees a person wearing a gun in a holster on his belt, that cop can be pretty dang certain the person carrying the gun is not a criminal because why in the world would a criminal want to carry a gun out in the open for all to see? The criminal is more than likely to hide their gun to avoid arousing suspicion.

    And back to this "right" of LEO to check me out because I am wearing a gun. Ever heard of the 4th amendment to the US Constitution? The 4th amendment says that LEO has no right to "check me out" unless they have suspicion that I am committing a crime. So maybe you would like to see carrying a firearm automatically be classified as suspicious activity? Ummm.... NO THANK YOU!

    In Washington state, for instance, the gun on my belt in a holster openly carried cannot be treated any differently then a cell phone on my belt in a holster. Both are equally legal to carry without a license, except in a few specifically limited areas clearly defined in state law (RCW 9.41.300). LEO has no "right" to check me out because I am carrying a firearm in a lawful manner than if I am carrying a cell phone in a lawful manner. And that does nothing to weaken LEO's ability to enforce the law.

    LEO's have a right to investigate CRIME, and suspicion of a CRIME being committed. They have no "right" to investigate the carrying of firearms, absent other suspicion of an actual crime being committed, unless carrying that firearm is a crime by itself. You wish VA would allow open carry? Really?!? Anybody legal to possess a firearm in Virginia is legal to open carry that firearm in Virginia with no license required including the open carrying of a handgun at age 18 and above!


    I don't understand why "pro-2A" and "pro-gun" people would think that carrying a firearm warrants LEO's attention in any way, let alone gives LEO the "right" to investigate the carrying of that firearm.
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2010
  13. zoom6zoom

    zoom6zoom Well-Known Member

    Huh? Virginia has had open carry, no permit required, for quite a while. There is a very active OC community. Check out the Virginia subforum at opencarry.org. Very few hassles anymore, the cops have pretty much been trained that it's legal.
  14. texas bulldog

    texas bulldog Well-Known Member

    Um...I'm pretty sure it does.

    EDIT: Dang, zoom6zoom just beat me to it.
  15. Gouranga

    Gouranga Well-Known Member

    You know I carry a pocket knife hooked to my front pocket every where I go. It is obvious I have it. No cop has ever stopped me to ask me if I am the lawful owner of the knife.

    Should the police be stopping me all the time to make sure my car is not stolen? How about my house? They have no idea if I am the legal owner or if i have killed the legal owner and buried them in the back yard.

    If I am not committing a crime or threatening anyone (I mean actually threatening not just because some raging anti gets the shivers seeing my holstered weapon) it is not business of the police what I am doing where I am going, or whether anything on my person is mine, borrowed, or stolen.

    I don't think it is the gov't concern how or if I am carrying a weapon. OC or CC, I am a law abiding citizen. In 36 years, including traffic violations, I can count on a single hand the number of times I have been charged with breaking the law (2 speeding tickets, 1 failure to follow established routes) and 1 of those 3 was thrown out cause it was BS. So why should I be harassed by any LEO?
  16. BBQLS1

    BBQLS1 Well-Known Member

    Where does the constitution imply anything on open or concealed carry?
  17. GEM

    GEM Well-Known Member

    It would be the debate on what 'bear' means. Now, where's my popcorn to watch this. ;)

    Heller and McDonald didn't speak to that and, of course, I am a constitutional expert - being on the Internet.
  18. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator

    I can't imagine what gave you that idea.

    I sure hope not. Open carry could be a serious nuisance in lousy weather. I wouldn't want to be limited to open carry when it gets cold or when it rains.
  19. DCR

    DCR Well-Known Member

    +1 NavyLT.

    I'd only add that the government and LEO's don't have "rights" - they have authority to engage in investigations, and only under the circumstances you outlined pursuant to the 4th Amendment. Citizens have rights.
  20. hiawatha

    hiawatha Well-Known Member

    Geckgo, LA is the one state whose CC permits are not recognized in AR. I'm told that's because of the process for obtaining a CC permit in LA. As far as AR knows, LA has no training requirement, and LEO has complete discretion on issuing CCs with no guidelines. True?

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