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Winchester Model 1907, .351 SL

Discussion in 'Firearms Research' started by TheNative, Jun 5, 2011.

  1. TheNative

    TheNative Member

    After recently receiving this gun, with the old Remington UMC Kleanbore Primer cartridges, I realized that ammo may be tough to find. Handloading is nearly out of the question, I don't have any sources to order brass or lead from. I don't know a lot about the rifle yet, so any important points, or even where to get ammunition? Maybe also some history of the rifle and it's cartidge too, please!
  2. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Well-Known Member

  3. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Well-Known Member

    First, it's a great piece of living history.

    Second, the ballistics (180 gr bullet, 1,870 ft/s muzzle velocity, 1,400 ft·lb muzzle energy) is in the class of .357 Magnum from a 20" carbine barrel, which some folks feel is adequate for brush hunting javelina pig, coyote or small deer.

    Whether you hang it on the wall or take in the field, that's a desirable firearm.

    Added: Hang on to the old Remington UMC Kleanbore Primer cartridges and boxes if you got them, there is a cartridge collector's market. If you shoot, get new componenst from Buffalo Arms as mentioned above.
  4. Sunray

    Sunray Well-Known Member

    "...don't have any sources..." Where are you?
    Other than Buffalo, reloading is your only option. Midway lists Quality brass at $67.99 per 50. I have data if you want it.
  5. Chuck Dye

    Chuck Dye Well-Known Member

  6. XxWINxX94

    XxWINxX94 Well-Known Member

    These were commonly used as prison-guard guns. The guards a number of years back would patrol the prison most likely from the top of a fortified wall, carrying these guns. Last I recall, the gun was mentioned, maybe even pictured in the movie "Public Enemy" with Johnny Depp(?) from a couple years back (The part fiction John Dillinger story).

    They are very unique and the early autoloaders are a different breed in themselves. I own one and have shot it several times. It's really fun, but extremely costly, as mainstream production of affordable ammo ceased many years ago.

    Hold on to it for collector/historical value. You'll be thanking yourself because they don't make 'em like that anymore and from the looks of today's guns, they never will.
  7. Jim K

    Jim K Well-Known Member

    Those guns are straight blowback and have a rather unpleasant recoil, expecially in the big .401. That massive bolt extension really builds up momentum when it gets moving. And they are hard to load and cock for the first shot due to the strong spring.

  8. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator

    Back in 1960 or 1961, I had a friend who worked for the power and light company in Estes Park. Colorado; he was a hunter and a fisherman.

    He was also a reserve law enforcement officer. One day when I was on vacation out there, he was called and told to come to the station and pick up a .351 Winchester rifle (which I saw) and take up a position with several others at a pass. They had been informed that a large motorcycle gang was headed to Estes Park from the west. The gang reportedly got wind of the preparations and headed back to CA.

    The ammo he had been given was FMJ, IIRC. I found the rifle to be awfully heavy.
  9. Jim K

    Jim K Well-Known Member

    Most of the weight of those guns is in the front extension of the bolt, a solid hunk of steel that about fills the space in the forearm, which is a hollow shell. That mass is necessary to allow use of a powerful cartridge in a blowback rifle. Buffers are also needed to keep the rifle from destroying itself. In a day when semi-auto weapons were in their infancy, the Winchesters were impressive. The Remington Model 8, a Browning design, was long recoil operated and, truth be told, complicated and not that reliable, either. One legacy of those Winchester rifles was that the .32 Winchester Self Loading (WSL) cartridge used in the Model 1905 formed the basis for the .30 Carbine cartridge of WWII, although the M1 Carbine itself was a totally different design.

  10. 351 WINCHESTER

    351 WINCHESTER Well-Known Member

    I'm kind of partial to the .351's. There is quite a bit of history from being used in WWI by the British, French and Russian's. Some were used by our forces in the Mexican Campaign which my Grandfather fought with Pershing prior to WWI. They are about as relaible as an autoloader can get. It's old world craftshmanship for sure. About the only thing that breaks on them is the forearm which cracks. Recoil is like no other rifle. It's hard to explain, but similar to an A5 Browning, except with less recoil.

    We shot mine into ballistic gel - www.brassfetcher.com.
  11. Jim K

    Jim K Well-Known Member

    The forearms crack because they are so thin. That bolt extension takes up the space and to make the forearm as thick as it should be would make it too bulky.

  12. TheNative

    TheNative Member

    Thank you, Jim Watson for finding that ammo. I probably could have shoved a few dollar bills down the muzzle before each shot, because that is what I was pretty much doing. I remembered to collect all brass that was dropped. I have only fired the rifle four times, after fixing it. I found the rifle jammed, in my grandma's basement. After doing some research and dissasembling the rifle, I took off the fore-end, only to find that someone had previously taken the rifle apart. The blowback return spring had been taken out of the little crevice that is sits in, but I opened it up and the heavy return spring had been too difficult to get back in, so the person took the spring and folded it over itself, and then slid the fore-end back on. I pulled the spring out, and it was sharply bent about halfway up. I was truely mortified. I still do not know who had done this, but I got it fixed. Barely. Now, the gun has been polished and cleaned repeatedly. All I need is some new ammo, maybe some sighting in, and its off to the races. I was hoping to maybe deer hunt with it this year, I read that the .351 SL has more power than the 30-30 Winchester, under 200 yards or something, I don't remember exactly.
  13. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator

    You may be thinking of the .35 Remington, which has somewhat more power than the .30 WCF. The .351, which was designed to be used in a blow back rifle, has a lot less power.
  14. 351 WINCHESTER

    351 WINCHESTER Well-Known Member

    You may need a new recoil spring. Wolff (believe it or not) sells "extra power" springs for the 07.
    You may be interested in what the .351 does in ballistic geletain. Go to www.brassfetcher.com to see.
  15. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Well-Known Member

    A friend here bought one as kind of a novelty, then decided to take it hunting. It killed his deer very dead, so I don't think you have to worry about power versus the present crop of magnumbs. Just get to where you can make a good iron sight shot.
  16. 351 WINCHESTER

    351 WINCHESTER Well-Known Member

    When I was a kid I hunted with 3 people that used the .351. One was a good hunter and he shot more than his share with that rifle. His wife used to curse it saying, "that damm .351 ruins too much meat". He let me shoot it one day and I knew I had to have one. It wasn't until several decades later that I found one and promptly bought it. I tried to order some ammo and much to my dismay I was told that Winchester no longer made it. There is still lots of ammo out there, but you're going to pay. When Winchester quit making it in the early 80's a box of 50 retailed for $40. plus which, back then was a heck of a lot of money. The 07 actually was more expensive than the famed model 70.

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