Wolf Primers - Problem!!!

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Prime by hand. You get a better "feel" for seating depth. Tighten the strain screw on your revolver. Folks often loosen these to reduce trigger pull, but in turn make a revolver that won't fire sometimes. If you are "crush seating" the primers (your words, not mine) you may be be crushing the priming pellet, therefore rendering it inert. Hence failure to fire. The strikes semm way off center as has been said here already. I would seriously look at your pistol. You said it was new to you. Maybe someone did some "gunsmithing" on it before you got it?
 
Ah the Wolf primer failure rears it's ugly head again. I am sure you are aware of the past threads and issues on these. I went through the same thing, sent a letter (as did others) Bottom line was So sorry we do not replace primers due to all the folks that took advantage of them and got free primers.

I believe Wolf is phasing out the brand name and just going with Tula (same primer)

My problems with the Wolf were only one revolver. I have use thosands since in all types and they work fine.

Try a new main spring in the revolver (is it one of the Buds Specials??)
 
But what about the Tula SP primers that failed to ignite in my Glocks with deep indentations?

They were hand primed to .004" below and of current production lot #.

I guess if 95% ignite, it was worth the $16/K I paid for them.
 
It's not necessarily a fault of the primers OR a fault of the user. Some revolvers just might be on the very edge of specs, especially if they have been modified a little bit to enhance the trigger pull.

A few years ago I had a good buddy who had just decided to get sorta serious about handguns and eventually reload for them. He had 2 brand new 357 revolvers but before he got set up for reloading, he literally stumbled across an incredible deal to buy 5000 rounds of factory MagTech ammo in .38 special. He figured he would shoot them all up to get comfortable with his revolvers and then reload the cases. One day he called me to help him "dispose" of that factory stuff. I only bothered to take one revolver with me (not wantning to appear unreasonably greedy). I took my little S&W .357 Mod 60 with a 3" barrel since it seemed to be neglected on my part back then. I have fired at least 3000 rounds out of that revolver with my own reloads without a single misfire. But the trigger has been lightened a little bit to get a good double action pull. Much to my surprise, the little gun would have a misfire about one out of 5 rounds using a single action pull. Not quite so bad in DA mode. And neither of my buddy's Taurus revolvers had one single misfire in 1500 rounds. Clearly, there was nothing wrong with the ammo. Clearly there was nothing "wrong" with my S&W. Just that the primers were on the hard side of "spec" and my revolver was on the light side of "spec" for hammer strike. Just not a good combo there.

For the record, no I have not used Wolf primers in my revolvers. But I have used Wolf Large Rifle Magnum primers in sever rifles with nary a problem at all. They are not my #1 preferred primer, but they definitely work. I think Wolf makes reliable products. They might not always work in the application we try. Just like Federal primers or CCI primers might not be the best choice for what I'm doing at the time. That's the joy of handloading though. If one component doesn't do the job, try a different one.
 
Make sure the strain spring screw is tight on your smith & wesson revolver!!!!
 
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My experience with Wolf/Tula so far is about 9000 through two factory triggered Glocks since last fall with zero issues. I gave a couple hundred from the same case to a buddy of mine to try in his lightened-trigger Glock, and he experienced a 4% FTFire rate.

As others have mentioned, I would either buy Federals that are known to be soft, or look at whether your gun is really striking hard enough.
 
Similar problem

My dad and I had a similar problem with an old S&W model 681 (police version of 686).

It did not matter waht primers we loaded, it failed to fire. Sometimes I would pull the trigger 20 to 25 times to get all six to fire. I can not recommend enough to get your S&W inspected by a good a good gunsmith.

On my 681, the hammer spring tension screw was screwed all the way in and still had FTF. The problem was the trigger was actually bad from too many years of hard usage as a former police gun. Once the trigger was replaced along with all the screws, it shot wonderfully. VERY accurate too.

The Smiths can wear out over time. Especially if you have an onlder, former police revolver.
 
+1 Gennro

The advice to seat primers as hard as you can was wrong. You can easily crush a primer too deep and/or crack the priming compound. People who say you can't haven't used the right primers and/or priming tools - or maybe they're just too weak to do it. Wolf/Tulammo SPP have soft, rounded cups that are particularly easy to flatten beyond recognition. Not to say this is the problem. It could be anything. But seating primers "as hard as I can" is probably not helping.

If it IS the primers, then other people may also be having problems with the same lot. Why don't you post the lot number?
 
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OK...so far I've got as possibles:

User error
- seated too firmly
- not seated deep enough
Gun error
- strain screw
- firing pin
- "other"
Primer failure
- bad lot

Well, that covers the bases, doesn't it :rolleyes:

It's lot # 5-10 with a red dot (if the color matters).

I can't comment on why some primer strikes are off-center, but as to why some are deeper than others, as I said, some of the rounds I tried 2, 3 and even 4 times to try to light off. No soap. Although no one has mentioned it, I have shaken all rounds and you can hear the powder charge in there.

I'm going to load another box of 100 with Wolf and 100 with Winchester and fire them out of the gun without altering it and using the same procedures. Both poxes of primers are stored in the same storage box. If the Winne (over a year older) light off, that should eliminate user error, storage, and gun as variables, right?

Q
 
Quoheleth said:
OK...so far I've got as possibles:


I'm going to load another box of 100 with Wolf and 100 with Winchester and fire them out of the gun without altering it and using the same procedures. Both poxes of primers are stored in the same storage box. If the Winne (over a year older) light off, that should eliminate user error, storage, and gun as variables, right?

Q
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No, not really as the Wolf are a harder primer. So the Win may work fine and Wolf may do the same thing. When the same thing happened to me (though not as many) it was only one gun and it was the mainspring.
 
"Harder primer" means it takes a consistently harder firing pin strike to light them. Guns with lightened triggers often have the strike force reduced, and must use known "soft" primers for relable operation. This is the case with many match pistols I'm aware of, and the favorite "soft" choice is Federal.

Some brands are known to be "harder" consistently, such as Wolf/Tula, CCI milspec, etc. A military spec gun such as an AR15 with a free floating firing pin is safer with a harder primer, since the pin is being carried into the primer lightly every time a round is chambered.

It is entirely possible your gun may function at or near 100% with some brands of primers, and not with Wolf, and that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the Wolf/other hard primers.
 
It is entirely possible your gun may function at or near 100% with some brands of primers, and not with Wolf, and that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the Wolf/other hard primers.
Click to expand...
^
OK, I concede that point.

I have two .38s Smiths - a model 15 and a model 10. I'll try them both and see how things go. If I have time, I'll try to load up a batch of 9mm as well and see how they function in my three 9mms. Five different guns...maybe that'll tell me something?

It's only been 36 hours, but I have heard nothing from Wolf, yet. Even if all I get is a "tough cookies" kind of email, I hope to at least hear from them.

Q
 
Between 5 guns I bet at least one of them has a stock trigger? I bet they work fine in that one. I'd try them in the 9mm's.
 
ny32182 said:
Some brands are known to be "harder" consistently, such as Wolf/Tula, CCI milspec, etc. A military spec gun such as an AR15 with a free floating firing pin is safer with a harder primer, since the pin is being carried into the primer lightly every time a round is chambered.
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I want to clarify as fair is fair.

While Wolf SP "nickel" colored primers have been reported to have ignition problems due to harder cups and my misfire experience is with Tula SP "nickel" colored primers, I have not experienced misfires with "bronze/brass" colored Wolf/Tula LP primers and found them not harder than Winchester bronze/brass colored LP primers. They are slightly larger in size and require more effort to seat them fully (.004" below flush). The misfires happened in G17/G22 with deep primer indentations so I rule out the light primer strike.

In comparison, PMC (also made in the same plant) SP bright brass colored primers have softer cup than Winchester SP.
 
My S&Ws are used. I cannot confirm stock triggers, hammer, firing pin, springs, etc, but the side plate screws do not show signs of being turned/boogered. I'll check the strain screw on each Smith to be sure.

The SR9c is stock.
The CZ85 was returned to the Kansas City 15-18 months ago for new springs and a checkup. No mods were made.
The Kahr CW9 is stock.

I noticed the problem initially with the Wolf primers in my SR9c. I had read about Wolf being hard, so I tried them in my CZ thinking being hammer-fired instead of striker-fired might (somehow) make a difference. Nope. My Model 15 had the same problems. In all three guns, I would experience a 3-5% failure rate, although one package had 8% failure and one 11%. (By comparison, this Monday, the failure rate was almost 19% (15/80).)

Second strikes would usually, but not always, light the primer. If it didn't go on a second strike, further attempts would never set it off. Monday, I think I had two fire on a second strike.

Previously, the situation was analyzed as having high primers. I was encouraged to seat firmly and deeply (as I said, someone said "crush setting", whatever that is) and make sure primer pockets were clean and free from residue. So, I've checked primer pockets and seated slightly below flush.

It's supposed to cool off this weekend. Maybe I can get a couple hundred loaded up and get out there and try.

One positive about this - trying to put the best construction on this mess - is that a failure-to-fire lets you see any flinch very fast - same principal as loading a snap cap. :D

Q
 
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There is only 1 Strain Screw. Attached Pic with arrow pointing at it. You do not have to take the side plates off to tighten it. Might have to take the grips off?
StrainScrewPic.jpg
 
30K wolf LPP, 200 gn LSWC, 45 ACP through a Colt series 80 and a Les Baer TRS. Not one failure to fire for me.
 
Anyone know - did Tula primers have this problem as well? I also bought a whole case of Tulas at the same time.

Q
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Like said above, Wolf and Tula are for the most part one in the same...

In your second picture I see nickel and yellow primers. I'm wondering if they are all Wolf?

During the "shortage" I used at least 1000 Wolf SPP without a bad one in the lot. That doesn't mean you didn't get a bad batch, only that I didn't. Sorry, I don't remember what color they were. I used other Wolf pistol primers and all those fired first time out too. From what I'm told Wolf primers are ever so slightly wider and more difficult to seat completely and would probably fire the second strike. (again, that doesn't mean this is your primer problem)

With all the guns not liking Wolf primers IMO you might want to steer clear of them in the future. ;)
 
Those that have only one strike on the primer indicate what Iron Sight has already stated. Until you have corrected this by insuring the screw is tight and has not been filed off. Some idiots file the screw shorter to lighten the trigger pull. Try shooting those rounds in another revolver.

As far as putting too much presure on the primer during seating, I doubt that is the problem as I tend to flatten primers when I seat them and have never had a problem. I use Lee's press mounted die and plunger priming system so I can really put the pressure on them when seating.
 
OCD1 said:
I thought PMC was now Korean?
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Probably for the regular primers as PMC Non-Toxic SP primers I have state made in Russia. Primer cups are bright brass with "E" stamped on the cups.

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