1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

You want a debate on gun control?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by perception, May 26, 2005.

  1. perception

    perception New Member

    May 24, 2005
    Murfreesboro, TN

    Found this on sigforum, and figured maybe some of you would be interesting in putting up your 2 cents worth. Probably won't change anything, but hey, how often do you really get to pick apart an anti anyway?
  2. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

    Jan 1, 2003
    SouthEast PA
    I see that you're new here.

  3. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

    Dec 24, 2002
    Idahohoho, the jolliest state
    Nope. I'm sick of listening to the same old witless hysteria of the anti-Second Amendment bigots. Their idea of a "debate" is to tell lies, launch a few ad hominem attacks, and hide.
  4. RavenVT100

    RavenVT100 Senior Member

    Aug 18, 2004
    If they don't like guns, they're welcome not to own one. They have no business being anywhere near mine. And it would be a waste of my time to come to their message board and attempt to outshout their whining, not to mention completely unproductive.
  5. Graystar

    Graystar Senior Member

    Dec 29, 2002
    Brooklyn, NY
    Personally, I like Weaver but I know Isosceles is better.

    DSRUPTV Member

    Feb 21, 2005
    Danville, VA
    I always wonder why people from other countries get so bent out of shape about our laws. Mind your own business and stay in your country!!!
  7. The Rabbi

    The Rabbi member

    Oct 30, 2003
    Anyone who owns a .45 is just trying to compensate for something. Nine is fine.
    Anyone who thinks an AR is a battle rifle rather than a rabbit gun doesnt know what he's talking about. Get an AK.
    Point-shooting=dumb idea
    If you're serious about personal defense you carry a revolver, six for sure. If you just want to show off carry an auto.
    Colt? If its a pony its a phony.
    Anyone buying a Glock is just increasing our dependence on foreign oil. He sure doesnt know squat about handguns.
    SIG=Stupid Idea of a Gun
    Jeff Cooper is the ultimate authority on guns. Anyone else is just along for the ride.
    Train as you shoot. Shoot as you train. Carry your load.
  8. migoi

    migoi Member

    Feb 11, 2004

    inclined to go wrestle in the mud for a bit might consider dropping the below copied information into the fray and ask how difficult is for a normal everyday citizen to obtain a gun in Brazil or Venzuela.


    BRASILIA, Brazil, May 5 (Reuters) - Venezuela and Brazil have the highest gun death rates in the world, according to a U.N. study released on Thursday in Brazil as the country's legislators considered a referendum to ban firearm sales.

    Gun murders are the leading cause of death in Brazil, which ranked second only to Venezuela in gun murders out of 57 countries studied by the United Nations report.

    In Venezuela, 22.15 people out of every 100,000 are murdered with guns, while 21.72 are killed in Brazil.

    Those rates were higher than for Israel, which has an armed conflict with the Palestinians. At the bottom of the ranking was Japan with a rate of 0.06 people, according to the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) study.

    Brazil's Congress is considering a national referendum this year to ask whether the sale of arms should be prohibited in a country said to have the world's highest number of murders.

    Brazil imposed tough controls in 2003 that made it illegal for ordinary citizens to own guns and set tough prison sentences for people found carrying them illegally.

    Latin America's biggest nation is still awash with as many as 20 million unregistered and illegal firearms.

    Guns overtook traffic accidents as the leading cause of death in Brazil in the 1990s. Between 35,000 and 40,000 Brazilians are killed each year by firearms.


    Kates on International Homicide Rates and Gun Laws/Ownership
    Mon, 19 Jul 2004 17:59:23 -0700
    Forwarding e-mail from Don B. Kates on international homicide rates.


    Date: 7/18/2004 6:12:09 PM Eastern Standard Time

    Those of you who are familiar with the paper Dr. Kohn and I presented at
    the Tower of London symposium last year may remember its tables showing that despite wildly varying gun laws and rates of gun ownership most European nations have only slight variances in murder rates. In other words, gun laws did not reduce murder rates nor did widespread gun ownership increase it.

    Those tables were for the 1990s and matched with two different
    measurements of gun ownership. I have just run across some early 2000s figures for a wider variety of nations confirming this (though for many of these nations I have no measure of gun ownership.

    These new murder rate data are given below. The asterisks indicate
    clarifying discussion below the figures.

    >From JURISTAT: Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics pamphlet "Homicide in
    Canada, 2002" by Josee Savoie at p. 3, Table titled Homicide Rates for Selected
    Countries, 2002

    Country Homicide Rate [per 100,000 population]

    Russia 20.54 *
    Luxembourg 09.01 *
    U.S. 05.52
    Portugal 02.57
    England & Wales 02.01*
    Denmark 01.99
    Hungary 01.99
    France 01.88 *
    Canada 01.85
    Australia 01.85
    Tunisia 01.20 *
    Switzerland 01.18 *
    Germany 01.11
    Austria 00.80 *

    From JURISTAT: Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics pamphlet "Homicide in
    Canada, 2001" by Mia Dauvergne at p.3

    Russia 21.18
    U.S. 05.64
    Finland 02.98
    Hungary 02.48
    Austria 01.95
    Sweden 01.87
    France 01.78
    Canada 01.78
    England/Wales 01.60
    Ireland 01.00
    Germany 01.05
    Norway 00.81 *


    RUSSIA: has banned handguns from the 1920s on. Over the last decade its
    murder rate has been between 3 and 4 times that of the U.S.

    The only reason the U.S. was once thought to have "the industrialized
    world's highest murder rate" is because the Soviets suppressed and
    misrepresented their rate. From 1965 to 1980 the Russian rates were slightly higher than the U.S. rate. Since then Russian murder has steadlly increased till today it is c. 4 times greater.

    LUXEMBOURG: bans all guns. Its murder rate is often comparable to the western European average. But in many other years it is 2-4 times higher.

    ENGLAND & WALES: used to have the lowest murder rate in Europe. But since the early 1990s its violent crime rates have steadily risen. In 1997 it banned
    and confiscated all hadguns. By year 2000 its violent crime rate was double that of the US though its homicide rate is still less -- but growing steadily

    FRANCE: every law abiding householder is entitled by law and policy to have a
    handgun for home defense.

    TUNISIA: I wouldn't trust this murder rate figure as far as I can throw it.

    SWITZERLAND: Every law abiding adult is entitled to a permit to own a
    handgun, and the rate of gun ownership is among the highest in Europe.

    AUSTRIA: Every law abiding adult is entitled to a permit to own a handgun.
    Four times more Austrians have permits to carry handguns than do Californians though California has four times more people -- and a murder rate 15 times higher.

    NORWAY: has the highest rate of gun ownership in Western Europe -- and the
    lowest murder rate. Compare Holland w/ the lowest rate of gun ownership and a murder rate double Norway's.
  9. gunsmith

    gunsmith member

    May 8, 2003
    Reno, Nevada
    as bad as yahoo or craigslist

    for the most part it's a waste of time talking to those nitwits,I think we are better off writing to our politicians and telling them we are sending money and our votes to pro gun politicians.
  10. beerslurpy

    beerslurpy member

    Nov 8, 2004
    Spring Hill, Florida
    I think I did ok.
  11. thebucket

    thebucket Member

    May 7, 2005
    Oh yes, I think this will work nicely,
  12. jdberger

    jdberger Member

    Feb 23, 2005
    I took a different tack. Probably could have been more specific in examples but didn't really feel like doing research (getting lazy preaching to the choir):
  13. hillbilly

    hillbilly Senior Member

    Jul 10, 2003
    Oh no, not one of these threads again.... :rolleyes:

    Don't waste time rasslin' in the mud with a damned dirty hog.

    You only get mud all over yourself, and the hog likes it.

  14. jdberger

    jdberger Member

    Feb 23, 2005
    And from the BBC!!

    Here is this little gem .

    :banghead: :banghead: I guess that they just don't get it.
  15. Molon Labe

    Molon Labe Senior Member

    Jun 17, 2003
    SW Ohio
    I'm tired of debating on gun control.

    The bottom line is that I have an inalienable right to keep and bear arms, and I do not need to justify this opinion to anyone.

    And if they come for my guns, I only have one thing to say. (See my user name.)
  16. shermacman

    shermacman Senior Member

    Dec 30, 2002
    I love it when the gun grabbers use homicide rates in Europe and Japan for comparison. I would like to see those murder rates include every death committed by their governments for the last hundred years, then divide by a hundred. Instead of cherry-picking the last couple of decades.

    You know, so that we could include how peace loving those societies were during World War I and World War II. :what:
  17. jdberger

    jdberger Member

    Feb 23, 2005
    Keep in mind that it is a right, not an opinion... :D
  18. Molon Labe

    Molon Labe Senior Member

    Jun 17, 2003
    SW Ohio
    Many people (including everyone on this board) believe a human has the right to keep and bear arms. But when it comes right down to it, it is ultimately an opinion. If it were a fact, you could objectively and logically prove you have a right to keep and bear arms.

    Some of us might say, "But the 2nd Amendment is proof!" Or the writings of our Founding Fathers are proof. But these sources cannot be used as proof; it was simply their opinion (as it is ours) that every human has the right to keep and bear arms.

    There are people who insist that every human has a right to "free" housing. We are quick to point out that it is their opinion that every human has a right to "free" housing, and that we disagree with their opinion.

    Now some of the people on this board may scoff at the notion that our right to keep and bear arms is an "opinion." But what they may not realize is that such a philosophy bolsters their argument. When some anti says, "Guns kill children, a gun in the home is dangerous, the 2nd Amendment only gives state militias the right to keep and bear arms, you do not have the right to keep and bear arms, yada yada yada…" you only have to respond as follows: "It is your opinion that I do not have the right to keep and bear arms. Fine. But it’s my opinion I do. And since it's my opinion, I do not need to justify it in any way. It doesn't matter what the crime statistics say... it doesn't matter what the 2nd Amendment says... it's my opinion I have a right to keep and bear arms. And just like all the other opinions I hold, I do not need to justify it to you or anyone else. Have a good day."

    Think about it.
  19. jdberger

    jdberger Member

    Feb 23, 2005
    Because some think that the Earth is flat doesn't make the spherical earthers any less correct.

    Honestly, I believe that we have inalienable rights, granted by...God or whoever. Our whole concept of government and law and morality hinges on that fact.
  20. R.H. Lee

    R.H. Lee Senior Member

    Jan 26, 2004
    Never argue with an idiot. People watching can't tell the difference.

Share This Page