Anybody know what the Swiss Guard carries?

MacPelto · April 1, 2005, 01:16 PM

With the Pope being in the news so much lately, I got to wondering - does anybody know what the Vatican Swiss Guard carries in the way of small arms? I mean besides halberds. Do they have pistols concealed in their little medieval outfits? Do they use long guns? Heavier munitions? Anybody actually seen them at work/training?

Mac

WT · April 1, 2005, 01:25 PM

The ones that wear school bus yellow and purple uniforms, designed by Michelangelo, carry the halberd. There are others in the background wearing blue-gray uniforms who carry Beretta 9mm handguns or Beretta M12 9mm submachineguns.

Just past the Bronze Doors next to the Bernini columns on the right is an armored booth containing light machineguns. When the pope appears snipers are placed on the roof.

The Vatican Police also carry Beretta handguns.

Edit: one website I checked noted that the SG carries H&K smg's. When I last visited The Vatican I saw Beretta smg's.

Onmilo · April 1, 2005, 01:31 PM

The Swiss 'mercenaries' are funded and equipped by the Swiss government.
Current Swiss Military items predominate.

OH25shooter · April 1, 2005, 01:49 PM

Why don't the Italians guard the pope?

When in Rome.....

entropy · April 1, 2005, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Why don't the Italians guard the pope?

This is a holdover from mideval times when potentates (which the Pope was one of in those days) didn't trust their own citizens to guard them. If Romans guarded the Pontiff, it would have been easy for some plotting Cardinal (back in that era, quite common) to have the house guard spy on or dispatch him.
The Swiss, being neutral and having the best trained troops at the time, were a natural choice for the Vatican Guard, and have served most loyally for several hundred years.
Oh, BTW, they carry the M1542 halberd backed by the M1640 SchweitzerSchwerde and M1641 Bollock dagger. It's rumored that they may, in light of recent events, be soon carrying firearms.

Seriously, they are very well armed and well trained. Not to be trifled with, to be sure.

WT · April 1, 2005, 02:06 PM

The Vatican is an independent country. Having foreign police enforcing the laws is not widely accepted. The Rome police patrol on the Italian side of the border which is simply a white painted line across the plaza.

The Swiss Guardsmen take a personal oath of loyalty to the pope. Who would the Italian police be loyal to?

That said, the Rome police and Italian military do provide support for special occasions. Transgressors of The Vatican are handled by the Italian courts and prisons per various treaties between the 2 countries. See link.

http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/treaty.htm

The biggest problem The Vatican has is the pickpockets that work St. Peter's.

Trebor · April 1, 2005, 02:59 PM

One of the Swiss Guards murdered another guard a few years ago. IIRC, the news stories at the time indicated that the murder weapon was the issue HK handgun. I bet a google search would turn up some articles on the murder.

io333 · April 1, 2005, 03:10 PM

io333 · April 1, 2005, 03:11 PM

The uniforms are a little fruity if you ask me.

50 Freak · April 1, 2005, 03:14 PM

I think their quite "tactical"

jlwatts3 · April 1, 2005, 03:16 PM

IO333,
I agree but tell them that. You'd probably get skewered.

Sistema1927 · April 1, 2005, 03:17 PM

Back in the 1930's, there was a special run of 100 K-31 rifles made specifically for the Swiss Guard.

lockedandloaded · April 1, 2005, 03:59 PM

The official handgun for the Vatican Guards is the Swiss SIG P-220 9mm designated the M-75 in the Swiss Army.

I have an extensive collection of books and magazine articles dealing with this subject, and believe it lists somewhere the entire "arsenal" of them.

Here is a link to a very good story detailing one of the darkest days in the Swiss Guard: http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.asp?ArtKey=swissguard

PART II
http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.as...ey=swissguard2

PART III
http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.as...ey=swissguard3

No_Brakes23 · April 1, 2005, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Sistema1927 said...
Back in the 1930's, there was a special run of 100 K-31 rifles made specifically for the Swiss Guard.

Now, you know some cruffler has ants in pants over getting ahold of one of those.

Hell, I think it is pretty neat.

Tall Man · April 1, 2005, 04:00 PM

Quote:

The Vatican is an independent country.

The Holy See (Vatican City) is not a country. It is a principality - the world's smallest, as a matter of fact. Said another way, it is an independent state.

The distinction between a country and a principality/state is significant enough to warrant correction here.

TM

jhisaac1 · April 1, 2005, 04:08 PM

It kind of puts a new spin on:
"In God we trust. Everyone else keep your hands where we can see them."

lockedandloaded · April 1, 2005, 04:14 PM

Principality, Country, or how about a "Duchy" (sp) such as Lichtenstien?

GEM · April 1, 2005, 05:50 PM

How about the Duchy of Grand Fenwick?

dasmi · April 1, 2005, 05:55 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Guard

Read up.

No_Brakes23 · April 1, 2005, 07:44 PM

From the above link:
Their working uniform is more functional, consisting of blue coveralls with a black beret.

That's more like it. And SIG pistols, c'mon now, that ony makes sense, nationality wise. I am a bit surprised they don;t use 550s, though. Guess they wanted a subgun and pistol only.

MacPelto · April 1, 2005, 10:19 PM

Thanks for all the info, fellas...been doing some digging on my own, too.

Can someone tell me what the rifles in the picture are? This is them in training -

Mac

Jim Keenan · April 1, 2005, 10:35 PM

OK, Tall Man, what is the difference between a country and an independent state? AFAIK, the Vatican meets every definition of a "country", small as it is. It has a defined territory, a capital city, national borders, its own police, its own army (the Swiss Guards), its own treasury, its own passports, its own government, its own foreign policy. It coins its own money which is recognized as a legal currency in other nations. It sends ambassadors to other nations and receives their ambassadors. It is an absolute monarchy, but that is neither here nor there as far as its being an independent country.

That is not true of other so-called "independent states" like Monaco, the old Soviet Republics, Tibet or, for that matter, Ohio.

Jim

MudPuppy · April 1, 2005, 10:49 PM

Those rifles look like SiGs to me--maybe 552s?

Logan5 · April 2, 2005, 01:57 AM

Hmmm, I want to say 550s/SSG90s.
I seem to recall that the Vatican has additional armed security services distinct from the Swiss Guards, that have their own arms selection process. Still, where else are you going to get genuine military armored halberd training? That's no joke crowd control. Brilliant job, provided one is a Schweizer StaatsbÃ¼rger. (hah, I had no idea I could umlaut on THR...)

Walt Rauch · April 2, 2005, 08:00 AM

The non costumed Swiss bodyguards carry Glock Model 17 pistols.

April 1, 2005, 01:16 PM	#1
MacPelto Member Join Date: January 1, 2003 Location: The Great State of Texas Posts: 618	Anybody know what the Swiss Guard carries? With the Pope being in the news so much lately, I got to wondering - does anybody know what the Vatican Swiss Guard carries in the way of small arms? I mean besides halberds. Do they have pistols concealed in their little medieval outfits? Do they use long guns? Heavier munitions? Anybody actually seen them at work/training? Mac

April 1, 2005, 01:25 PM	#2
WT Member Join Date: June 11, 2003 Posts: 1,988	The ones that wear school bus yellow and purple uniforms, designed by Michelangelo, carry the halberd. There are others in the background wearing blue-gray uniforms who carry Beretta 9mm handguns or Beretta M12 9mm submachineguns. Just past the Bronze Doors next to the Bernini columns on the right is an armored booth containing light machineguns. When the pope appears snipers are placed on the roof. The Vatican Police also carry Beretta handguns. Edit: one website I checked noted that the SG carries H&K smg's. When I last visited The Vatican I saw Beretta smg's. Last edited by WT; April 1, 2005 at 02:33 PM.

April 1, 2005, 01:49 PM	#4
OH25shooter Member Join Date: November 10, 2003 Location: OH Posts: 1,142	Why don't the Italians guard the pope? When in Rome..... __________________ "A federal government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.” ~ Thomas Jefferson

April 1, 2005, 02:59 PM	#7
Trebor Member Join Date: February 15, 2003 Posts: 4,111	One of the Swiss Guards murdered another guard a few years ago. IIRC, the news stories at the time indicated that the murder weapon was the issue HK handgun. I bet a google search would turn up some articles on the murder. __________________ Rob Reed NRA Certified Instructor (Pistol, PPITH) SigArms Academy Certified Instructor (Pistol) Graduate, LFI-1 & LFI-2 CCW classes and private instruction in the Metro Detroit and Lansing areas

April 1, 2005, 03:14 PM	#10
50 Freak Member Join Date: February 7, 2003 Posts: 952	I think their quite "tactical" __________________ One of a few Many among the unrepresented

April 1, 2005, 01:31 PM	#3
Onmilo Member Join Date: July 26, 2004 Location: Illinois` Posts: 6,021	The Swiss 'mercenaries' are funded and equipped by the Swiss government. Current Swiss Military items predominate.

April 1, 2005, 02:06 PM	#6
WT Member Join Date: June 11, 2003 Posts: 1,988	The Vatican is an independent country. Having foreign police enforcing the laws is not widely accepted. The Rome police patrol on the Italian side of the border which is simply a white painted line across the plaza. The Swiss Guardsmen take a personal oath of loyalty to the pope. Who would the Italian police be loyal to? That said, the Rome police and Italian military do provide support for special occasions. Transgressors of The Vatican are handled by the Italian courts and prisons per various treaties between the 2 countries. See link. http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/treaty.htm The biggest problem The Vatican has is the pickpockets that work St. Peter's.

April 1, 2005, 03:10 PM	#8
io333 Member Join Date: May 1, 2004 Posts: 231

April 1, 2005, 03:11 PM	#9
io333 Member Join Date: May 1, 2004 Posts: 231	The uniforms are a little fruity if you ask me.

April 1, 2005, 03:16 PM	#11
jlwatts3 Member Join Date: November 16, 2004 Location: Baghdad by the Bay Posts: 256	IO333, I agree but tell them that. You'd probably get skewered. __________________ http://246thcombatengineers.org/ (my Grandfather's battalion) "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened." -- Norman Thomas, ACLU co-founder and Socialist Party presidential candidate

April 1, 2005, 03:17 PM	#12
Sistema1927 Member Join Date: May 21, 2004 Location: "Land of (dis)Enchantment" Posts: 3,816	Back in the 1930's, there was a special run of 100 K-31 rifles made specifically for the Swiss Guard. __________________ Lew Wallace was an optimist. I want my country back! The High Road

April 1, 2005, 03:59 PM	#13
lockedandloaded Member Join Date: December 20, 2004 Posts: 5	The official handgun for the Vatican Guards is the Swiss SIG P-220 9mm designated the M-75 in the Swiss Army. I have an extensive collection of books and magazine articles dealing with this subject, and believe it lists somewhere the entire "arsenal" of them. Here is a link to a very good story detailing one of the darkest days in the Swiss Guard: http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.asp?ArtKey=swissguard PART II http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.as...ey=swissguard2 PART III http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.as...ey=swissguard3

April 1, 2005, 04:08 PM	#16
jhisaac1 Member Join Date: December 31, 2002 Location: Newberg, OR Posts: 179	It kind of puts a new spin on: "In God we trust. Everyone else keep your hands where we can see them." __________________ jhisaac1 Tracto Habeus Digitus "It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived." - General George S. Patton, Jr

April 1, 2005, 04:14 PM	#17
lockedandloaded Member Join Date: December 20, 2004 Posts: 5	Principality, Country, or how about a "Duchy" (sp) such as Lichtenstien?

April 1, 2005, 05:50 PM	#18
GEM Member Join Date: April 11, 2004 Location: TX Posts: 2,423	How about the Duchy of Grand Fenwick? __________________ TSRA IDPA NRA NTI Polite Society http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm Being an Active Shooter / Being an Academic Shooter

April 1, 2005, 05:55 PM	#19
dasmi Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Location: CA Posts: 2,778	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Guard Read up. __________________ "You assist an evil system most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees. An evil system never deserves such allegiance. Allegiance to it means partaking of the evil. A good person will resist an evil system with his or her whole soul." -Mahatma Gandhi

April 1, 2005, 07:44 PM	#20
No_Brakes23 Member Join Date: March 19, 2005 Location: Everett, WA Recently escaped from San Diego, PRK Posts: 1,604	From the above link: Their working uniform is more functional, consisting of blue coveralls with a black beret. That's more like it. And SIG pistols, c'mon now, that ony makes sense, nationality wise. I am a bit surprised they don;t use 550s, though. Guess they wanted a subgun and pistol only.

April 1, 2005, 10:19 PM	#21
MacPelto Member Join Date: January 1, 2003 Location: The Great State of Texas Posts: 618	Thanks for all the info, fellas...been doing some digging on my own, too. Can someone tell me what the rifles in the picture are? This is them in training - Mac

April 1, 2005, 10:35 PM	#22
Jim Keenan Member Join Date: December 31, 2002 Posts: 9,151	OK, Tall Man, what is the difference between a country and an independent state? AFAIK, the Vatican meets every definition of a "country", small as it is. It has a defined territory, a capital city, national borders, its own police, its own army (the Swiss Guards), its own treasury, its own passports, its own government, its own foreign policy. It coins its own money which is recognized as a legal currency in other nations. It sends ambassadors to other nations and receives their ambassadors. It is an absolute monarchy, but that is neither here nor there as far as its being an independent country. That is not true of other so-called "independent states" like Monaco, the old Soviet Republics, Tibet or, for that matter, Ohio. Jim

April 1, 2005, 10:49 PM	#23
MudPuppy Member Join Date: January 11, 2005 Location: UK and Texas Posts: 1,460	Those rifles look like SiGs to me--maybe 552s?

April 2, 2005, 01:57 AM	#24
Logan5 Member Join Date: February 24, 2004 Location: CT Posts: 1,100	Hmmm, I want to say 550s/SSG90s. I seem to recall that the Vatican has additional armed security services distinct from the Swiss Guards, that have their own arms selection process. Still, where else are you going to get genuine military armored halberd training? That's no joke crowd control. Brilliant job, provided one is a Schweizer StaatsbÃ¼rger. (hah, I had no idea I could umlaut on THR...)

April 2, 2005, 08:00 AM	#25
Walt Rauch Member Join Date: December 4, 2004 Posts: 126	The non costumed Swiss bodyguards carry Glock Model 17 pistols.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode