Stainless blade or blued blade?

AirPower · June 24, 2005, 02:08 PM

Just wondering. Most of the modern knives/swords I've seen are stainless for some reason, is this for corrosion protection only, or is SS easier to make/sharpen? From what I know about gun metal, carbon steel is almost always prefered when it comes to durability and tensile strength.

Many older calvary swords also appear to be stainless but I do not think metalurgy was that good back then. Could they have been polished?

Daniel Flory · June 24, 2005, 02:25 PM

99.99% of all swords made from stainless steel are crap. Stainless is very poor for long blade applications because the chromium makes the blade brittle which is an issue as the blade gets longer. IMHO, stainless is used today for mostly corrosion protection with edge-holding ability a distant second. In general, stainless is harder to sharpen but retains an edge longer than carbon. Regarding old cavalry swords, most of the blades from the cavalry eras that actually used them were carbon. Once the sword became a dress/parade item, many switched to stainless for ease of care.

ClarkEMyers · June 24, 2005, 05:02 PM

And I have a couple of A. G. Russel's Morseth laminated blades that seem as easy to sharpen to hold and edge as well as any stainless.

ruger357 · June 24, 2005, 05:13 PM

My carrying knives are 154cm stainless, but the knife I use for heavy duty is 1095 carbon.

KriegHund · June 25, 2005, 04:28 AM

Just dont get long blades made outta stainless. They will snap on you. In fact there was a homne shopping network thing where a guy hit a stainless katana (broad end, non shappened end, aka the side, whatever) against a table, it snaped and stabeed hin in the belly.

Boats · June 25, 2005, 10:18 AM

Carbon steel blades can be high polished like any other metal that can be "shined up."

Some carbon steel swords, like the last US Navy Cutlass were blued, but most throughout history were in the white and oiled or coated with a smear of lard or other hydrophobic compound. Frankly, after a carbon blade acquires its patina, it is mostly done with having to be watched every minute for something attacking the steel. Just examine it at the end of the day and take care of any new issues that arise.

Stainless allows one to be lazy. Carbon, whether for knives or swords, is for the serious user. For every stainless steel a fan of those alloys can point to, there is a carbon counterpart that kicks its tail in every conceivable category except corrosion resistance.

seed · June 25, 2005, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Just dont get long blades made outta stainless. They will snap on you. In fact there was a homne shopping network thing where a guy hit a stainless katana (broad end, non shappened end, aka the side, whatever) against a table, it snaped and stabeed hin in the belly.

Oh my god. Are you serious? Those freakin' HSN (or whatever it is) knife guys are so damned annoying. I would pay money to see that.

Daniel Flory · June 25, 2005, 01:29 PM

seed,

PM me, I'll let you know where to send the check

http://www.kroc.com/kroc_fm/people/m...katanaslip.mpg

seed · June 25, 2005, 07:30 PM

That was so damned cool! Too bad it didn't also hit the other guy.

AirPower · June 25, 2005, 09:28 PM

wow, that's something, really cool video, thakns for sharing. goes to show how brittle those sword blades are. was he hitting the table with the back of the blade? It just snapped like that!

Valkman · June 25, 2005, 10:48 PM

Man he's lucky that didn't go into his eye! Not too bright to be banging it around like that, but I guess he won't do it anymore.

**hso** · June 27, 2005, 12:11 AM

Back to the original question.

Older cavalry (or any military type) sword/sabers were all tool steel. DF is correct when he says stainless swords are crap wall hangers for the uninformed.

Stainless-type steels are made for their ease of marketing because they don't rust as readily and the buying public is happier that way. That said, 440C properly heat treated makes a good smaller blade steel while 440HC makes a superior blade steel. Then you're off to ATS34, 154CM, etc.

Tool steels make superior blades to rust resistant steels. You don't have to blue a tool steel blade to protect it. Use good oil or modern rust protectants and they will give years of rust free service.

KriegHund · July 12, 2005, 03:06 AM

And decent swords recquires its steel be flexible lests it breaks. So stainless aint so great for that.

Oh yeah, anyone else seen that historyt channel episode where they tape in slow mo the guy using a variety of swords? Every sword bent when he stabbed the cloth or whatever it was then returned to its position.

June 24, 2005, 02:08 PM	#1
AirPower Member Join Date: June 14, 2003 Posts: 542	Stainless blade or blued blade? Just wondering. Most of the modern knives/swords I've seen are stainless for some reason, is this for corrosion protection only, or is SS easier to make/sharpen? From what I know about gun metal, carbon steel is almost always prefered when it comes to durability and tensile strength. Many older calvary swords also appear to be stainless but I do not think metalurgy was that good back then. Could they have been polished?

June 24, 2005, 02:25 PM	#2
Daniel Flory Member Join Date: December 25, 2002 Posts: 3,741	99.99% of all swords made from stainless steel are crap. Stainless is very poor for long blade applications because the chromium makes the blade brittle which is an issue as the blade gets longer. IMHO, stainless is used today for mostly corrosion protection with edge-holding ability a distant second. In general, stainless is harder to sharpen but retains an edge longer than carbon. Regarding old cavalry swords, most of the blades from the cavalry eras that actually used them were carbon. Once the sword became a dress/parade item, many switched to stainless for ease of care. __________________ A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Milton Friedman

June 24, 2005, 05:02 PM	#3
ClarkEMyers Member Join Date: October 3, 2003 Location: PacWest Posts: 835	My only working sword (short) is 1095 And I have a couple of A. G. Russel's Morseth laminated blades that seem as easy to sharpen to hold and edge as well as any stainless.

June 25, 2005, 04:28 AM	#5
KriegHund Member Join Date: February 18, 2005 Location: Colorado, Broomfield Posts: 1,516	Just dont get long blades made outta stainless. They will snap on you. In fact there was a homne shopping network thing where a guy hit a stainless katana (broad end, non shappened end, aka the side, whatever) against a table, it snaped and stabeed hin in the belly. __________________ "But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here." The Gettysburg Address, Abraham Lincoln Thoughts on the world today- http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...endID=58200713

June 25, 2005, 10:18 AM	#6
Boats Member Join Date: December 29, 2002 Location: Oregon Posts: 3,535	Carbon steel blades can be high polished like any other metal that can be "shined up." Some carbon steel swords, like the last US Navy Cutlass were blued, but most throughout history were in the white and oiled or coated with a smear of lard or other hydrophobic compound. Frankly, after a carbon blade acquires its patina, it is mostly done with having to be watched every minute for something attacking the steel. Just examine it at the end of the day and take care of any new issues that arise. Stainless allows one to be lazy. Carbon, whether for knives or swords, is for the serious user. For every stainless steel a fan of those alloys can point to, there is a carbon counterpart that kicks its tail in every conceivable category except corrosion resistance. __________________ "I find the curiosity of our party is pretty well satisfied with respect to this animal." *Capt. M. Lewis summing up in his journal after several near death experiences with grizzly bears.*

June 24, 2005, 05:13 PM	#4
ruger357 Member Join Date: December 26, 2002 Location: RI Posts: 1,581	My carrying knives are 154cm stainless, but the knife I use for heavy duty is 1095 carbon.

June 25, 2005, 01:29 PM	#8
Daniel Flory Member Join Date: December 25, 2002 Posts: 3,741	seed, PM me, I'll let you know where to send the check http://www.kroc.com/kroc_fm/people/m...katanaslip.mpg __________________ A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Milton Friedman

June 25, 2005, 07:30 PM	#9
seed Member Join Date: July 15, 2004 Posts: 235	That was so damned cool! Too bad it didn't also hit the other guy.

June 25, 2005, 09:28 PM	#10
AirPower Member Join Date: June 14, 2003 Posts: 542	wow, that's something, really cool video, thakns for sharing. goes to show how brittle those sword blades are. was he hitting the table with the back of the blade? It just snapped like that!

June 25, 2005, 10:48 PM	#11
Valkman Member Join Date: July 31, 2003 Location: Pahrump, NV Posts: 3,549	Man he's lucky that didn't go into his eye! Not too bright to be banging it around like that, but I guess he won't do it anymore. __________________ NRA Patron Life Member My site: www.DLKnives.com Knives I've made http://usera.imagecave.com/Valkman/Knives_Ive_Made/

June 27, 2005, 12:11 AM	#12
hso Moderator Join Date: January 3, 2003 Location: 0 hrs east of TN Posts: 17,250	Back to the original question. Older cavalry (or any military type) sword/sabers were all tool steel. DF is correct when he says stainless swords are crap wall hangers for the uninformed. Stainless-type steels are made for their ease of marketing because they don't rust as readily and the buying public is happier that way. That said, 440C properly heat treated makes a good smaller blade steel while 440HC makes a superior blade steel. Then you're off to ATS34, 154CM, etc. Tool steels make superior blades to rust resistant steels. You don't have to blue a tool steel blade to protect it. Use good oil or modern rust protectants and they will give years of rust free service. __________________ Forum Rules Remember - When seconds count, the police are only minutes away Some folks need to spend more time on the range, and less behind the keyboard. It will really clear up there thinkin' about certain issues..... Try being informed instead of opinionated.

July 12, 2005, 03:06 AM	#13
KriegHund Member Join Date: February 18, 2005 Location: Colorado, Broomfield Posts: 1,516	And decent swords recquires its steel be flexible lests it breaks. So stainless aint so great for that. Oh yeah, anyone else seen that historyt channel episode where they tape in slow mo the guy using a variety of swords? Every sword bent when he stabbed the cloth or whatever it was then returned to its position. __________________ "But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here." The Gettysburg Address, Abraham Lincoln Thoughts on the world today- http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...endID=58200713

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