Pro's and Con's of shotgun gauges

[riverdog]

Am I looking for justification to buy another shotgun?

Taking another view of the unfortunate shooting accident involving the VP, I see that the 28 ga shotgun he was shooting could carry a 1 oz load. That's about what I shoot using a 12 ga and the velocities are comparable. That being the case, for bird hunting, what are the advantages of using a 12 ga and are they enough to justify carrying the bigger gun?

[BigG]

Even though it would carry the same payload, a smaller gauge shotgun would have a longer shot string. That is the difference in length of time for the first pellets and last to arrive in the pattern. 12 gauge is simply better in all respects regarding availabilty of ammo, types, and expense that I just use that.

Other gauges are for guys with a bigger shotgun yen than I have, or like a challenge. Or ones that compete in all gauge sports, for example. YMMV

[ArmedBear]

Originally Posted by riverdog

Am I looking for justification to buy another shotgun?

Taking another view of the unfortunate shooting accident involving the VP, I see that the 28 ga shotgun he was shooting could carry a 1 oz load. That's about what I shoot using a 12 ga and the velocities are comparable. That being the case, for bird hunting, what are the advantages of using a 12 ga and are they enough to justify carrying the bigger gun?

There are birds, and there are birds.

If you can't hit them with the 12 Gauge, then it doesn't matter how much shot you hurl in their general direction.

There's an interesting spot with a lot of quail near here. Few people hunt there. It's chaparral country and the bushes are head-high with gaps between them and some trees here and there. I've hunted there a few times and missed a lot of birds, largely because I had a 28" 870 12 Gauge. The birds flush out, stay just over the brush, then drop down again fast. You have no more than a few seconds to see them, shoulder the gun, and hit them, or forget it. The three-shot limit is a joke; you don't have time to fire three shots. I just couldn't get the 48" 7.75 lb. gun shouldered and pointed quickly enough, especially with adrenaline going from quail flying out from practically under my feet. Those things are LOUD and startling if they suddenly flush right in front of you!

A 20 Gauge straight-grip double gun would have worked a LOT better. 2 shots are plenty, and the quick handling of the lighter, shorter gun would be worth its weight in gold!

That's why 12 and 20 are the most popular shotguns. Each fills a big niche pretty well. 16 is making a comeback, too, since it offers handling more like a 20 with a payload more like a 12. 28 is popular among very experienced hunters who want a challenge, people who really hate recoil, or wealthier hunters who can go to places like Argentina, where they might shoot many boxes of shells in an afternoon, so they love light loads and light guns. It also works well for small, randomly-flying birds like doves.

[gp911]

Originally Posted by ArmedBear

That's why 12 and 20 are the most popular shotguns. Each fills a big niche pretty well. 16 is making a comeback, too, since it offers handling more like a 20 with a payload more like a 12. 28 is popular among very experienced hunters who want a challenge, people who really hate recoil, or wealthier hunters who can go to places like Argentina, where they might shoot many boxes of shells in an afternoon, so they love light loads and light guns. It also works well for small, randomly-flying birds like doves.

Then you got yer .410, the most polarizing of shotgun gauges (caliber in this case).

Seems people either love them or think they're worthless, no middle ground. Pricey to shoot, weak patterns, not much oomph to the slugs, inaccurate at longer yardage, et cetera.

Despite all that I'll always have a .410 in the arsenal. I grew up with 'em and can't ever give 'em up. They make you get closer to the game before firing, which is half the fun!

Now bowhunting, that's too much like work...


gp911

[Switchback]

Yep, what BigG said!

Shot will arrive at the same time with the 12 bore, hence the shorter shot string.

[JohnBT]

One-ounce loads, mostly available in #6, just don't pattern very well out of a 28 ga. - mine anyway. The common 3/4-ounce loads in #7.5, 8 & 9 pattern extremely well - better than they ever 'should.' They seem to be the perfect match of load length and bore diameter compared to the larger cousins, especially the 20 (which I like so don't get all up in the air here.)

What are the advantages of 12 ga. for itty-bitty little birds? Cheaper ammo and more recoil. 20 ga.? About the same.

OTOH, the following has been confirmed by gun store owners and employees. If you buy a box of 28 ga. ammo they'll show you every nice gun in the place because they know you've got a real bad case of the shotgun-shooting disease.

John

[Delivery McGee]

Originally Posted by gp911

Then you got yer .410, the most polarizing of shotgun gauges (caliber in this case).

Seems people either love them or think they're worthless, no middle ground. Pricey to shoot, weak patterns, not much oomph to the slugs, inaccurate at longer yardage, et cetera.

I've shot skeet with a .410 double, a 12-gauge 870 (18"), and a 12-gauge 1300 (26"). I hit 80% or so with the .410, lots better than I (or any of my shooting buddies, who have much more shotgun experience) did with any of the 12s.

[ArmedBear]

Originally Posted by JohnBT

One-ounce loads, mostly available in #6, just don't pattern very well out of a 28 ga. - mine anyway. The common 3/4-ounce loads in #7.5, 8 & 9 pattern extremely well - better than they ever 'should.' They seem to be the perfect match of load length and bore diameter compared to the larger cousins, especially the 20 (which I like so don't get all up in the air here.)

What are the advantages of 12 ga. for itty-bitty little birds? Cheaper ammo and more recoil. 20 ga.? About the same.

OTOH, the following has been confirmed by gun store owners and employees. If you buy a box of 28 ga. ammo they'll show you every nice gun in the place because they know you've got a real bad case of the shotgun-shooting disease.

John

No doubt about it; if you have the means, a gun for each purpose is a good thing.

The shop owners know that, if you are buying 28 G, you have at least 5 shotguns, 3 of them nice doubles, so you have money and are willing to part with it. More likely, 10, with 8 nice doubles.

[riverdog]

I hadn't thought about the shot string dynamics but it makes sense that it would stretch out the shot string relative to larger gauges. I may put a 28ga O/U for Skeet on my nice-to-have list.

[kudu]

The thing about a 28ga is you think you really don't need it until you shoot one and realize it is the only shotgun you want to use. I have, I believe 4 shotties in 28 gauge, and they all get used pretty regular. Probably 70% of my shooting is with the 28ga followed by .410, 20ga, and 12 gauge.

If you end up getting one you really should get a reloader for them, factory shells will break you eventually$$$.

3/4 oz of shot is the standard load for the 28ga and it has the best pattern to bore ratio going it seems, it shoots better than it should. I use it for pheasant hunting unless they are going to be flushing way out there, even then you get the same speed for the shot as as 12ga, just less pellets.

[226]

small shot

shot strings

[Dave McCracken]

Some years back I was introduced to the 28 gauge by a friend. He bred Welsh Springers, had a H&H 28 gauge of great beauty and we had free access to a preserve to clean up holdover birds on the last day of the season.

I used a 12 gauge SxS, a pretty little French gun loaded with AA trap 7 1/2s. My buddy used 3/4 oz loads in his 28. Every bird he shot at hit the ground dead. He was a fine shot, knew his weapon and load, and was shooting over close working dogs. I did OK, but the extra pellets didn't kill them any deader.

After, over tall frosties, he mentioned that while he had a boatload of good shotguns, the little H&H was what he reached for when the range was less than 40 yards for most shots.

Nowadays, a shotgunner who reloads has the option of building light loads, even in a 12. I've made some 3/4 oz loads, and the 7/8 oz loads I use on clays work well out to more than 40 yards with proper choke and swing.

IMO, someone using an oz load in a 28 gauge is missing the point....

[Larry Ashcraft]

IMO, someone using an oz load in a 28 gauge is missing the point....

Dave, I was waiting for someone to say that.

28 ga is an addictive little round (Steve's fault ). I never shot anything smaller than a 12 ga until last spring when I got my first (and not my last) 28 ga.

Smokes clays like it has no business doing!

[Dave McCracken]

The 28 gauge doesn't know it's small, Larry....

The short shot string means more pellets hit simultaneously. With the modern plastic shot cup and hard shot, enough pellets stay in the pattern to keep the load efficient.

People keep comparing the 410 and 28. In fact, the better comparison would be with the 20.

And, I'd love to see a 28 gauge slug. Duplicating the ballistics of a 54 caliber Muzzleloader would make an outstanding deer tool for relatively short range work.

[ArmedBear]

.410 would be called 67 Gauge if it weren't called .410. A 28 is a LOT closer to a 20 than to a .410.

Here are some numbers:

10 g .775"
12 g .729" -.046
16 g .662" -.067
20 g .615" -.047
28 g .550" -.065
410 .410" -.140

The .410 is .205" smaller in diameter than a 20 and .319" smaller than a 12.

The 28 is just .065" smaller than a 20 and .179" smaller than a 12.

From any distance, it can be hard to tell if a guy has a sleek double 20 or a 28 in his hands. It's easy to tell if he has a .410!

Note that a shot column is a 3-D cylinder, so differences in dimensions vary with the square of the radius.

[MCgunner]

Originally Posted by Switchback

Yep, what BigG said!

Shot will arrive at the same time with the 12 bore, hence the shorter shot string.

This is also the knock on 12 3.5" vs ten gauge. However the 10 is a 3.5"! So, I never quite sorted that one out. I shoot a 3" gun anyway, plenty for me even for geese with Federal Tungsten-Iron loads.

I want a lightweight 20. Only problem I see in it for any bird hunting is the lighter gun is whippy, or tends to handle a lot quicker. Once I get used to a particular gun, I find switching to a lighter gun with less muzzle weight hard to do. You know the saying about the guy that only owns one rifle? Well, that might hold true more with shotguns IMHO. I have about decided I'd just stick to my two main 12s for everything. I have a Winchester M1400 for dove and upland. I shoot Winchester high speed low brass in it and recoil is mild with the gas operated system. I have a Mossy pump for waterfowl or turkey. The two guns are similar in weight, wieght bias, and size and handle very similarly. I don't have a problem switching between these two guns. 12 will handle any sort of bird hunting. There may be advantages to a really light gun in a lighter gauge for quail or other upland birds, but I'll take the deficit. I don't hunt quail anyway. Closest I come to needing a really quick pointing shotgun is flushing/running rabbits. I mostly waterfowl and dove hunt.

[ArmedBear]

MC you're probably correct in your assessment.

If you don't have a specific need for a gun that handles differently, and you already have guns you like, it'll just mess up your shooting to change.

If you do have a specific need, you still need to practice with each gun, and that can be frustrating at first!

[Larry Ashcraft]

.410 would be called 67 Gauge if it weren't called .410.

I thought the .410 was a 36 ga.

[JohnBT]

They just call it that. Beats me why.

"It's easy to tell if he has a .410!"

He's the guy cussing?

John

[ArmedBear]

Originally Posted by Larry Ashcraft

I thought the .410 was a 36 ga.

The .410 was a 36 Ga just like a short-shell .357 caliber is a .38 Special and a .429 is a .44 Magnum.

The nominal bore of a .410 shotgun is.410 inch. Which is why it is properly called the .410 bore instead of the .410 gauge. In Europe it is sometimes called the 12mm, which is an inaccurate designation as a .410 bore has an actual diameter of approximately 10.4mm by metric measure. If the .410 had been named in the traditional fashion, by the number of lead balls .41 inch in diameter needed to make one pound, it would be about a 67-68 gauge. Many years ago it was also called the 36 gauge, and I have seen a picture of an old box of Remington shells marked "(36 GA.) .410-2 1/2 IN. (12 MM)." However, the "36 Gauge" designation was very inaccurate, as a true 36 gauge gun would actually have a .506 inch bore diameter.

From http://www.chuckhawks.com/410bore.htm

[sm]

You forgot the 24 gauge and 32 gauges....*snicker*



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