XD Melonite vs. Glock Tenifer.

[Jed Carter]

It is my understanding that the Tenifer treatment is to the bare metal and is not the matte finish that we see, in other words it is under the finish and is not a visible characteristic of the finish.

[V2Rider]

Correct, as is Melonite.

[possum]

i have no issue with either of the finishes. if you do rhough i know that sa will take care of you. i had one of the non melonite xd's the finish got bad, and sa refinieshed the xd with the armory kote, and i couldn't be happier.

[TG13]

rusty glock 30

just for reference.. it does happen, all metals rust in one form or another..

[V2Rider]

Ive seen that arcticle, and as much as love my Glock, they can rust.

[Kevin108]

Smith and Wesson used a Melonite finish on their original Sigmas long before Springfield's XD line. I believe Melonite is also used on golf clubs. Don't know how well it stacks up to Tennifer which seems to be a truly great finish but I gather it's pretty darned good.

Tennifer and Melonite are not the finish! They are a colorless a metal treatment process that penetrates metal (3-10 microns on Glocks) to harden it and seal it, making it corrosion-resistant.

The black finish on Glocks is phosphate. Not sure what's on the XDs.

[V2Rider]

They are basically the same thing. I trust both equally.

[Manos Lijeros]

I would like to see the difference between the finishes if one uses components not used in the other...

Is there a description of the differences in the finishing process between melonite and tenifer?

Either way, I hate to burst anyone's bubble, but simply try to be happy with your gun and stop worrying about what others think...

Glock is a good gun, but so is the XD. As to who 'stole' ideas, everyone should research which manufacturer had the first polymer frame, the first ...

There is no perfect gun in and of itself even if there is one that you think is perfect for you--your opinion is valid for you but may not be valid for anyone else. Who cares? Be happy with what you carry--you really don't need everyone else to like it do you?

So, can anyone reference a scientific comparison of the two finishes or a document that describes the differences in the chemical process?

Thanks!

[StarDust1]

Originally Posted by TG13

rusty glock 30

just for reference.. it does happen, all metals rust in one form or another..

A rusting Glock is a rare bird indeed, so much so that it's a virtual cinch that this one was defectively finished! I'm positive Glock would replace that pistol if challenged to do so!
Someone posted that "arsenic acids" is the reason for the tenifer paranoia at the EPA, not exactly, it's actually "cyanide!" Also of supreme importance to the topic is the little known fact(at least to gun owners)that tenifer(carbo nitriding)cannot be successfully applied to stainless steel, thats because stainless becomes to brittle when hardened to the extent that carbon steels can be, therefore "any" stainless pistol proclaimed to be melonite/tenifer finished is no way near as durable as those cabon steel specimens so finished!
Tenifer also is not visable on the finished product, where as melonite actually is the blackened outer finish, on for example my M&P 9C. If you were to see a Glock slide before the application of the phosphate treatment, it would(after the tenifer bath)appear to be bluish grey....

[JohnKSa]

So, can anyone reference a scientific comparison of the two finishes or a document that describes the differences in the chemical process?

Actually, someone can.

Look at my post on page 2 of this thread. (Posted over a year ago, by the way.)

[Mike J]

All I can tell you is that I dinged up a small place on the slide of my XD a couple of years ago. It has been shot & carried in the rain. It lives in a holster any time it is not at the range & humidity levels here are higher than most places. There is no sign of rust on that spot. I haven't even blacked it out with a magic marker.

[Boats]

Melonite can be, and is, applied to 4140 stainless steel, a steel commonly used in the firearms industry for the making of barrels and slides.

On a carbon steel slide, such as used by Glock, the nitrocarburizing process is a quench/polish/quench (QPQ) in the molten salt baths that treat the steel. On a carbon steel firearm part, all three steps would be needed to impart the best possible corrosion resistance.

A 4140 stainless slide starts with an inherent resistance to corrosion by being composed of ~12% chromium. The stainless steel upon oil quenching and proper heat treating, will also have a higher initial Rockwell hardness number than its counterpart made of carbon steel.

Why this matters is that a stainless steel slide will only require the first quench in a nitrocarburizing process and not the second, that would be absolutely required for a carbon steel matrix to become protected from corrosion. A stainless steel slide or barrel undergoing the nitrocarburizing process will undergo a single quench and polish. For a stainless slide or barrel, one is not doing the QP process solely with an eye towards corrosion resistance, because in part this detail was addressed by the initial material selection, but with the concern being a further case hardening the part as well as providing a highly wear resistant blackened finish. Making the slide as hard as is practical without becoming brittle is a valid objective of the process, because less hard metals such as keys, flashlights, whatever, that come into accidental contact with the slide will not likely harm the finish.

So, it is not the case that stainless steels cannot be Tennifered or Melonited with any success, it is that they do not require the entire three step process that a carbon steel slide does. The second quench is not only undesirable from a brittleness standpoint, it'd be pointless from a corrosion proofing standpoint as well.

[Ridgerunner665]

The question of whether or not Melonite and Tennifer are the same was asked via email to Durferrit (owners and creators of the process) http://www.durferrit.de/en/index.html

Here is the response...

You are correct, they are the same. Do you have an application?

Sincerely,

Michael Wright
Manager, Sales & Service
HEF USA

Cell: 248-346-6751
Fax: 248-363-8957

That should clear that argument up...

[Mr.510]

Melonite can be, and is, applied to 4140 stainless steel, a steel commonly used in the firearms industry for the making of barrels and slides.

Err, no. 4140 is NOT a stainless steel! 4140 IS a high strength alloy steel. I don't know which steels are used in most gun parts but a common example of the use of 4140 is Grade 8 bolts: They are 4140HT (heat treated 4140). I would *guess* that 4140 is used in a lot of gun parts as it's the cheapest and easiest to machine of the common high-strength alloy steels. It's also relatively dimensionally stable through the heat treat process. I've machined tens of thousands of pounds of the stuff throughout my career. By the way, bare 4140 rusts faster than any other material you'll commonly find on a production machine shop floor.

[mousegun380]

Just wanted to say that I carry an XD in sweaty St. Louis in a Crossbreed ST (been about 2 years now). No rust problems and only very slight holster wear.

I'm sure someone mentioned this, but if I were using the gun on the ocean like that I would most certainly choose a bi-tone (stainless steel slide) and clean it every night when you come off the water.

[John Parker]

I'm told it's the same thing under a different trade name

They are quite similar and likely the same, but the treatment that goes over them (and gives each gun its black color) is different. The finish on my new XD is dryer and far less slick than that on my older Glock 19, and it's already showing holster wear. My 2-year old Glock shows some as well, but it didn't sprout up a month after I bought it.

[Boats]

Yes, you are correct, 4140 is not stainless, so what grade stainless goes into major firearms components?