Changes in NV reciprocity!!

mljdeckard · June 24, 2009, 11:55 PM

From a USSC newsletter I just received:

IMPORTANT NOTE FOR UTAH CONCEALED WEAPONS PERMIT HOLDERS- NO MORE NEVADA CARRY!

Nevada authorities have decided that Utah Concealed Weapon Permits will NOT, repeat NOT, be recognized in Nevada effective July 1, 2009.

Even though Nevada has recognized Utah permits for several years, they recently reviewed permits from all states and decided that they will no longer recognize permits from Utah or Florida. The excuses given are that Nevada law requires the other states permit requirements to be “substantially similar to” those of Nevada. However, since Utah does not require live fire to get a permit, Nevada will not longer recognize our permit. Florida permits are good for seven years, but Nevada permits are only good for five years, providing the excuse for dropping Florida.

The people involved with Nevada permits seem to include a few powerful members of the law enforcement community who are hostile to private citizens self defense rights.

Utah Shooting Sports Council and the National Rifle Association will continue to pursue actions to restore recognition of Utah permits by Nevada, but it may take several years and changes to the Nevada laws.

Meanwhile, DO NOT CARRY IN NEVADA with a Utah Concealed Weapons Permit!

OurSafeHome.net · June 25, 2009, 12:04 AM

This is very valuable information, thanks for passing it along.

Next time I visit Nevada, I will just wear an "Open Carry" rig.

mljdeckard · June 25, 2009, 12:32 AM

Yeah, no more strapping on as soon as I get through Truckee Pass, or carrying through the gaming floor at The Luxor.

model of 1905 · June 25, 2009, 12:38 AM

One more reason not to visit Nevada, think that is enough. Nevada is too close to California geographically for me, anyway.

wait, wait, WAIT, Nevada is still an open carry state, so who cares! Maybe I will go to Lake Mead after all!.

230RN · June 25, 2009, 04:03 AM

This "reviewing" seems to be getting to be a regular thing with the States. "Substantially similar" is just an excuse -- a word you used correctly several times.

Methinks it's a just an anti reaction to the increasing popularity of the "shall-issue" movement. They are desperately looking for any "chokepoints" on ordinary citizens' firearms ownership.

Look for more of this nonsense.

I wonder if they have the same provisions for review of "substantially similar" driver's license requirements, or "substantially similar" marriage license requirements, or any other requirements under the "full faith and credit" clause. Betcha they don't scrutinze those, too.

Wanna bet?

Can you imagine, "Oh, we can't recognize your marriage from State XYZ because your State allows marriage between 15-year-olds, and we don't. Therefore you are breaking the law by cohabiting in our State."

Gr.

Snarl.

Growf.

I'm surprised the Feds can't figure out a way to block interstate recognition of CCW permits because of some hyperbolically-absurd interpretation of the infamous and highly-abused interstate commerce clause.

Gr.

Snarl.

Growf.

Terry, 230RN

Oyeboten · June 25, 2009, 04:06 AM

Well...really...it's not unreasonable for Nevada to require a CCW holder to have shown they can operate a Firearm...or, with this, to decline to recognise permits issued by States who do not require an applicant to 'qualify', by showing they can operate a firearm...

It should not be a Hardship for Utah to have an applicant 'qualify' by actually firing an Arm...and, if they would, then 'end-of-reciprocity-problem'...

RonSC · June 25, 2009, 04:52 AM

I'd wager that Harry Ried and his cronies had a lot to do with this decision...

davec · June 25, 2009, 06:27 AM

Quote:

I'd wager that Harry Ried and his cronies had a lot to do with this decision...

Yeah, Harry hates guns so much he voted against his party and his party's president in 1994 when he was one of 8 Democratic Senators to oppose the Assault Weapons Ban

230RN · June 25, 2009, 11:18 AM

Quote:

It should not be a Hardship for Utah to have an applicant 'qualify' by actually firing an Arm...and, if they would, then 'end-of-reciprocity-problem'...

Oh, yeah?

How about:

Quote:

It should not be a Hardship for Utah to have an applicant 'qualify' by actually driving a car...and, if they would, then 'end-of-reciprocity-problem'...

Terry, 230RN

mljdeckard · June 25, 2009, 11:48 AM

The other thing that makes it silly, while it is not a requirement for the course of the Utah permit to test shooting, most instructors require it anyway. I know there are classes at the gun shows where you don't have to shoot, but I shot, my friends who are instructors have a shooting test, my dad just took the class from a guy he has known and shot with for forty years, and he STILL required him to shoot first. I don't know anyone who didn't shoot as part of their course.

oneounceload · June 25, 2009, 11:56 AM

Many folks get Utah and Florida permits from other places due to the high reciprocity rates of those two, thereby allowing most to carry in a majority of other states.

Having lived in NV for over 20 years, I won't sully this forum with my thoughts about harry reid........

CoRoMo · June 25, 2009, 12:03 PM

For those who think the permit was a step forward in the RKBA fight.

D94R · June 25, 2009, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oyeboten

It should not be a Hardship for Utah to have an applicant 'qualify' by actually firing an Arm...and, if they would, then 'end-of-reciprocity-problem'...

Do you feel you should have to qualify to exercise you're other rights?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 230RN

It should not be a Hardship for Utah to have an applicant 'qualify' by actually driving a car...and, if they would, then 'end-of-reciprocity-problem'...

Driving cars are privelages... but you're right. I think Utah gives driver licenses away with every happy meal purchase.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mljdeckard

I don't know anyone who didn't shoot as part of their course.

I took the course under Larry's instruction at Cabela's. No shooting required. I'd be interested to see what would happen if you refused to take the instructors shooting part of the course. Since its not a requirement I don't think they'd be able to deny you the permit if you declined???

mljdeckard · June 25, 2009, 12:52 PM

It's the instructor's discretion. I think they would probably ask you to find a different instructor if you didn't want to fulfill the requirements of their course.

And yes, I still think that 40 of 50 states being 'shall issue' is a very positive step for gun rights. Issues like this getting attention and pressure from gun groups is a good thing, not a bad thing.

CleverNickname · June 25, 2009, 01:00 PM

Since when are Florida's permits are good for 7 years? Mine is only for 5.

There's an incentive for states not to have permits valid for more than 5 years, otherwise they don't meet one of the requirements for it to substitute for a NICS check.

green-grizzly · June 25, 2009, 01:18 PM

Thanks for the heads up.

It is infuriating. The biggest reason I would want a license is to carry in CA and LV, and now I can't do either.

Oyeboten · June 25, 2009, 03:10 PM

I am not sure of the correct interpretation of the relationship between the 2nd Ammendment, with respect to Concealed Carry in various Federal jurisdictions or States.

While owning Firearms seems clearly enough 'guaranteed' as a Civil Right...particulars regarding carrying them openly or concealed are already subject to many and various conditions

A 'CCW' is a 'Licence'...

Does one have to apply, qualify howeverso, and be approved, to receive a license for exercising one's other Civil Rights?

No...

So...already, this has been liable to differences from other Rights.

I see nothing unreasonable about a State granting a License for Concealed Carry to qualified applicants, and, denying the License to unqualified applicants...if States are exercising their own proper rights to be regulating these matters of Conealed Carry.

Demonstraing the ability to operate and fire an Arm, would seem to me to be a basic qualification for CCW.

Maybe...under the strictest interpreation of the Constitution, no such License or qualifications are appropriate...and if so, then, it's fine with me if the present limitations are removed.

As it is, States and Federal Jurisdictions appear to claim the right to oversee and regulate who may Carry Concealed, and, who may not, according to their ideas about what qualifies an individual, in their opinion.

And if we accept that as an already in force condition, then, I see nothing objectionable about them wanting applicants to show they can operate and fire an Arm, for granting them a License to carry concealed.

MrEdim · June 25, 2009, 03:34 PM

Someone copied this over to the Nevadashooters web site and this is the response from one of our moderators.

"I'm calling BS. Loud and proud, I'm calling BS."

"I just got off the phone with Lisa up at the Washoe County Sheriff's Office. She directed me to a website http://dps.nv.gov/ where they have a section called "CCW Changes" http://www.nvrepository.state.nv.us/...W_CHANGE.shtml.

Utah is still listed. She informed me there were no changes to reciprocity in the 2009 legislature, but if there were ever any changes that they would be listed there. Last change to CCW laws was in 2007 with the generic revolver clause and this updated list (MI was added in 2008):

Out of State Carry Concealed Weapon Permit Recognition

Effective Oct 1, 2007

In accordance with NRS 202.3689 passed by the 2007 Nevada Legislature the State of Nevada will recognize the following States' CCW permit holders:

Alaska
Arkansas
Florida (added January 3, 2008)
Kansas
Louisiana
Michigan (added May 9, 2008)
Missouri
Nebraska
Tennessee
Utah

This law allows holders of valid permits from these states to carry a concealed weapon while in the State of Nevada. The permit must be in the possession of the issuee at all times while carrying a firearm. "

MrEdim · June 25, 2009, 03:54 PM

"wait, wait, WAIT, Nevada is still an open carry state, so who cares! Maybe I will go to Lake Mead after all!."

Nevada is NOT an open carry state. Nevada is a 'free carry' state.
Arizona is an open carry state because it has a law that specifically allows one to openly carry a loaded firearm.

Nevada on the other hand is a free carry state because we have no statute that forbids open carry.
Therefore, open carry in Nevada is 'de facto legal' because it's not illegal.

You should know that you can still draw some unwanted attention from local LE while open carrying and that you may be cited for something other than open carrying a weapon. Something like disturbing the peace, etc.

Try to open carry on The Strip or downtown at The Fremont Street Experience and see how long ya last before you're breakin' out the ol' ID and talking to Metro.

mljdeckard · June 25, 2009, 04:14 PM

That link doesn't open up for me. Is it possible that she won't discuss the changes because they aren't in effect yet?

OurSafeHome.net · June 25, 2009, 04:41 PM

http://www.nvrepository.state.nv.us/ccw_changes.shtml

Or click here

Wolfebyte · June 25, 2009, 04:45 PM

Try this one..

double entry.. ... slowed to the draw by the phone... rats..

Sheldon J · June 25, 2009, 10:37 PM

One more time... It is a real bad idea to let Police Chiefs decide / make law and or policy... put someone in charge that is answerable to the voters....

Avenger29 · June 25, 2009, 10:54 PM

Quote:

wait, wait, WAIT, Nevada is still an open carry state, so who cares! Maybe I will go to Lake Mead after all!

You can't carry at Lake Mead NRA cause it's a National Park Service managed site until 2010 when the new regs go into effect. And then you can only carry concealed.

fiddletown · June 26, 2009, 03:20 AM

In any case, I'll be heading to Nevada next month to take the class and get the Nevada permit.

June 24, 2009, 11:55 PM	#1
mljdeckard Member Join Date: June 5, 2006 Location: The Holy City of Ogden, UT Posts: 4,956	Changes in NV reciprocity!! From a USSC newsletter I just received: IMPORTANT NOTE FOR UTAH CONCEALED WEAPONS PERMIT HOLDERS- NO MORE NEVADA CARRY! Nevada authorities have decided that Utah Concealed Weapon Permits will NOT, repeat NOT, be recognized in Nevada effective July 1, 2009. Even though Nevada has recognized Utah permits for several years, they recently reviewed permits from all states and decided that they will no longer recognize permits from Utah or Florida. The excuses given are that Nevada law requires the other states permit requirements to be “substantially similar to” those of Nevada. However, since Utah does not require live fire to get a permit, Nevada will not longer recognize our permit. Florida permits are good for seven years, but Nevada permits are only good for five years, providing the excuse for dropping Florida. The people involved with Nevada permits seem to include a few powerful members of the law enforcement community who are hostile to private citizens self defense rights. Utah Shooting Sports Council and the National Rifle Association will continue to pursue actions to restore recognition of Utah permits by Nevada, but it may take several years and changes to the Nevada laws. Meanwhile, DO NOT CARRY IN NEVADA with a Utah Concealed Weapons Permit! __________________ ALL I NEED TO KNOW I LEARNED BEFORE HE RAN FOR PRESIDENT: Scholar John Lott recalls Obama saying, "I don't believe that people should be able to own guns."

June 25, 2009, 12:04 AM	#2
OurSafeHome.net Member Join Date: June 10, 2009 Location: National Training Vendor Posts: 190	Valuable information, thanks! This is very valuable information, thanks for passing it along. Next time I visit Nevada, I will just wear an "Open Carry" rig. __________________ You can have your concealed weapons license one week from today. Call me to find out how: (772) 538-0046 Visit: OurSafeHome.net. Dan Nafe, dan@OurSafeHome.net, (772) 538-0046

June 25, 2009, 12:32 AM	#3
mljdeckard Member Join Date: June 5, 2006 Location: The Holy City of Ogden, UT Posts: 4,956	Yeah, no more strapping on as soon as I get through Truckee Pass, or carrying through the gaming floor at The Luxor. __________________ ALL I NEED TO KNOW I LEARNED BEFORE HE RAN FOR PRESIDENT: Scholar John Lott recalls Obama saying, "I don't believe that people should be able to own guns."

June 25, 2009, 12:38 AM	#4
model of 1905 Member Join Date: December 16, 2008 Location: New Mexico Posts: 306	One more reason not to visit Nevada, think that is enough. Nevada is too close to California geographically for me, anyway. wait, wait, WAIT, Nevada is still an open carry state, so who cares! Maybe I will go to Lake Mead after all!. __________________ Not one more inch! Threeper and Oath Keeper

June 25, 2009, 04:03 AM	#5
230RN Member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Location: Near Golden CO Posts: 3,044	This "reviewing" seems to be getting to be a regular thing with the States. "Substantially similar" is just an excuse -- a word you used correctly several times. Methinks it's a just an anti reaction to the increasing popularity of the "shall-issue" movement. They are desperately looking for any "chokepoints" on ordinary citizens' firearms ownership. Look for more of this nonsense. I wonder if they have the same provisions for review of "substantially similar" driver's license requirements, or "substantially similar" marriage license requirements, or any other requirements under the "full faith and credit" clause. Betcha they don't scrutinze those, too. Wanna bet? Can you imagine, "Oh, we can't recognize your marriage from State XYZ because your State allows marriage between 15-year-olds, and we don't. Therefore you are breaking the law by cohabiting in our State." Gr. Snarl. Growf. I'm surprised the Feds can't figure out a way to block interstate recognition of CCW permits because of some hyperbolically-absurd interpretation of the infamous and highly-abused interstate commerce clause. Gr. Snarl. Growf. Terry, 230RN __________________ Magazine safeties are nothing but institutionalized design defects. Last edited by 230RN; June 25, 2009 at 11:16 AM.

June 25, 2009, 04:06 AM	#6
Oyeboten Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Posts: 1,371	Well...really...it's not unreasonable for Nevada to require a CCW holder to have shown they can operate a Firearm...or, with this, to decline to recognise permits issued by States who do not require an applicant to 'qualify', by showing they can operate a firearm... It should not be a Hardship for Utah to have an applicant 'qualify' by actually firing an Arm...and, if they would, then 'end-of-reciprocity-problem'... Last edited by Oyeboten; June 25, 2009 at 04:23 AM.

June 25, 2009, 04:52 AM	#7
RonSC Member Join Date: February 19, 2007 Location: SC Posts: 63	I'd wager that Harry Ried and his cronies had a lot to do with this decision...

June 25, 2009, 11:48 AM	#10
mljdeckard Member Join Date: June 5, 2006 Location: The Holy City of Ogden, UT Posts: 4,956	The other thing that makes it silly, while it is not a requirement for the course of the Utah permit to test shooting, most instructors require it anyway. I know there are classes at the gun shows where you don't have to shoot, but I shot, my friends who are instructors have a shooting test, my dad just took the class from a guy he has known and shot with for forty years, and he STILL required him to shoot first. I don't know anyone who didn't shoot as part of their course. __________________ ALL I NEED TO KNOW I LEARNED BEFORE HE RAN FOR PRESIDENT: Scholar John Lott recalls Obama saying, "I don't believe that people should be able to own guns."

June 25, 2009, 11:56 AM	#11
oneounceload Member Join Date: April 24, 2008 Location: Hot and Humid FL Posts: 2,140	Many folks get Utah and Florida permits from other places due to the high reciprocity rates of those two, thereby allowing most to carry in a majority of other states. Having lived in NV for over 20 years, I won't sully this forum with my thoughts about harry reid........

June 25, 2009, 12:03 PM	#12
CoRoMo Member Join Date: September 21, 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 3,524	For those who think the permit was a step forward in the RKBA fight. __________________ The Second Amendment of our Bill of Rights is my concealed weapons permit, period! Ted Nugent

June 25, 2009, 12:52 PM	#14
mljdeckard Member Join Date: June 5, 2006 Location: The Holy City of Ogden, UT Posts: 4,956	It's the instructor's discretion. I think they would probably ask you to find a different instructor if you didn't want to fulfill the requirements of their course. And yes, I still think that 40 of 50 states being 'shall issue' is a very positive step for gun rights. Issues like this getting attention and pressure from gun groups is a good thing, not a bad thing. __________________ ALL I NEED TO KNOW I LEARNED BEFORE HE RAN FOR PRESIDENT: Scholar John Lott recalls Obama saying, "I don't believe that people should be able to own guns."

June 25, 2009, 01:00 PM	#15
CleverNickname Member Join Date: December 25, 2002 Location: TX Posts: 1,023	Since when are Florida's permits are good for 7 years? Mine is only for 5. There's an incentive for states not to have permits valid for more than 5 years, otherwise they don't meet one of the requirements for it to substitute for a NICS check.

June 25, 2009, 01:18 PM	#16
green-grizzly Member Join Date: January 12, 2008 Posts: 176	Thanks for the heads up. It is infuriating. The biggest reason I would want a license is to carry in CA and LV, and now I can't do either.

June 25, 2009, 03:10 PM	#17
Oyeboten Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Posts: 1,371	I am not sure of the correct interpretation of the relationship between the 2nd Ammendment, with respect to Concealed Carry in various Federal jurisdictions or States. While owning Firearms seems clearly enough 'guaranteed' as a Civil Right...particulars regarding carrying them openly or concealed are already subject to many and various conditions A 'CCW' is a 'Licence'... Does one have to apply, qualify howeverso, and be approved, to receive a license for exercising one's other Civil Rights? No... So...already, this has been liable to differences from other Rights. I see nothing unreasonable about a State granting a License for Concealed Carry to qualified applicants, and, denying the License to unqualified applicants...if States are exercising their own proper rights to be regulating these matters of Conealed Carry. Demonstraing the ability to operate and fire an Arm, would seem to me to be a basic qualification for CCW. Maybe...under the strictest interpreation of the Constitution, no such License or qualifications are appropriate...and if so, then, it's fine with me if the present limitations are removed. As it is, States and Federal Jurisdictions appear to claim the right to oversee and regulate who may Carry Concealed, and, who may not, according to their ideas about what qualifies an individual, in their opinion. And if we accept that as an already in force condition, then, I see nothing objectionable about them wanting applicants to show they can operate and fire an Arm, for granting them a License to carry concealed.

June 25, 2009, 03:34 PM	#18
MrEdim Member Join Date: January 27, 2008 Posts: 2	Nevadashooters.com Someone copied this over to the Nevadashooters web site and this is the response from one of our moderators. "I'm calling BS. Loud and proud, I'm calling BS." "I just got off the phone with Lisa up at the Washoe County Sheriff's Office. She directed me to a website http://dps.nv.gov/ where they have a section called "CCW Changes" http://www.nvrepository.state.nv.us/...W_CHANGE.shtml. Utah is still listed. She informed me there were no changes to reciprocity in the 2009 legislature, but if there were ever any changes that they would be listed there. Last change to CCW laws was in 2007 with the generic revolver clause and this updated list (MI was added in 2008): Out of State Carry Concealed Weapon Permit Recognition Effective Oct 1, 2007 In accordance with NRS 202.3689 passed by the 2007 Nevada Legislature the State of Nevada will recognize the following States' CCW permit holders: Alaska Arkansas Florida (added January 3, 2008) Kansas Louisiana Michigan (added May 9, 2008) Missouri Nebraska Tennessee Utah This law allows holders of valid permits from these states to carry a concealed weapon while in the State of Nevada. The permit must be in the possession of the issuee at all times while carrying a firearm. "

June 25, 2009, 03:54 PM	#19
MrEdim Member Join Date: January 27, 2008 Posts: 2	NV open carry "wait, wait, WAIT, Nevada is still an open carry state, so who cares! Maybe I will go to Lake Mead after all!." Nevada is NOT an open carry state. Nevada is a 'free carry' state. Arizona is an open carry state because it has a law that specifically allows one to openly carry a loaded firearm. Nevada on the other hand is a free carry state because we have no statute that forbids open carry. Therefore, open carry in Nevada is 'de facto legal' because it's not illegal. You should know that you can still draw some unwanted attention from local LE while open carrying and that you may be cited for something other than open carrying a weapon. Something like disturbing the peace, etc. Try to open carry on The Strip or downtown at The Fremont Street Experience and see how long ya last before you're breakin' out the ol' ID and talking to Metro.

June 25, 2009, 04:14 PM	#20
mljdeckard Member Join Date: June 5, 2006 Location: The Holy City of Ogden, UT Posts: 4,956	That link doesn't open up for me. Is it possible that she won't discuss the changes because they aren't in effect yet? __________________ ALL I NEED TO KNOW I LEARNED BEFORE HE RAN FOR PRESIDENT: Scholar John Lott recalls Obama saying, "I don't believe that people should be able to own guns."

June 25, 2009, 04:41 PM	#21
OurSafeHome.net Member Join Date: June 10, 2009 Location: National Training Vendor Posts: 190	Here is the link http://www.nvrepository.state.nv.us/ccw_changes.shtml Or click here __________________ You can have your concealed weapons license one week from today. Call me to find out how: (772) 538-0046 Visit: OurSafeHome.net. Dan Nafe, dan@OurSafeHome.net, (772) 538-0046

June 25, 2009, 04:45 PM	#22
Wolfebyte Member Join Date: November 12, 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 168	Try this one.. double entry.. ... slowed to the draw by the phone... rats.. __________________ The problem with reality, is, it does not live up to my fantasies. Μολὼν λάβε Last edited by Wolfebyte; June 25, 2009 at 04:47 PM. Reason: Information already posted.

June 25, 2009, 10:37 PM	#23
Sheldon J Member Join Date: July 11, 2005 Location: Cereal City, Michigan Posts: 900	One more time... It is a real bad idea to let Police Chiefs decide / make law and or policy... put someone in charge that is answerable to the voters.... __________________ "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" Sigmund Freud.

June 26, 2009, 03:20 AM	#25
fiddletown Member Join Date: April 29, 2006 Location: California Posts: 1,321	In any case, I'll be heading to Nevada next month to take the class and get the Nevada permit.

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