Attach light to gun or hold in hand?

[Deanimator]

A lot has changed since 86. Tactics have made gigantic leaps since then and we are better off for it. You can see this in how weapons, accessories, and gear are designed and fielded.

I won't EVER be using a firearm mounted light in any typical home defense situation. It violates my foremost principle of firearms employment.

If I'm in a situation where I KNOW there are NO friendlies and the police are NEVER coming, I'll use a light, boobytraps, reconnaissance by fire or anything else I can manage. Neither of those conditions attach to my present situation.

[NCPatrolAR]

Originally Posted by Deanimator

I won't EVER be using a firearm mounted light in any typical home defense situation. It violates my foremost principle of firearms employment.

If I'm in a situation where I KNOW there are NO friendlies and the police are NEVER coming, I'll use a light, boobytraps, reconnaissance by fire or anything else I can manage. Neither of those conditions attach to my present situation.

So what principles would you be violating?

[Deanimator]

So what principles would you be violating?

Never point a firearm at something you're not willing to destroy.

[KellyTTE]

I've trained in low light & no light situations in both the Army and as a police officer.

Not everyone that doesn't agree with you is wrong.

Lighten up.

That was my lightened version.

[NCPatrolAR]

Originally Posted by Deanimator

Never point a firearm at something you're not willing to destroy.

You do realize you can use the spill of the light to aid in target identification right?

No offense, but you strike me as having the big army "so safe; it's unsafe" mindset.

[Lee Lapin]

Folks, I keep finding it necessary to insert reminders that we are all friends here, and that we WILL treat each other respectfully even when we hold differing opinions.

Members who cannot abide those minor strictures on behavior really do need to treat S&T as read-only, and not post...

lpl

[benEzra]

Never point a firearm at something you're not willing to destroy.

As has been mentioned previously, you can positively ID a target with the light pointed at the floor in front of your feet. These aren't Wal-mart lights we're talking about here; the light is quite bright 45-60 degrees off-axis. Heck, you could point the light straight up at the ceiling in a Sabrina stance and still ID the target if you wanted (it lights up the whole room), though that would not be the most advantageous use of the light.

To reiterate, you do not have to point the light at an object to light it up. That's true whether the light is mounted on the firearm or held in your hand.

[TexasRifleman]

If I'm in a situation where I KNOW there are NO friendlies and the police are NEVER coming, I'll use a light, boobytraps, reconnaissance by fire or anything else I can manage. Neither of those conditions attach to my present situation.

So you plan your entire home defense strategy around the assumption that the guy in your living room in the middle of the night is a cop?

Not being funny, but that's how it reads. I don't guess I understand that.

If you believe there's a good chance the guy in the living room is a cop why use a firearm at all?

[Deanimator]

So you plan your entire home defense strategy around the assumption that the guy in your living room in the middle of the night is a cop?

Do you baise your assumptions on it being impossible for it to be a cop?

[TexasRifleman]

Do you baise your assumptions on it being impossible for it to be a cop?

I base my plan on the odds of it being a cop being almost immeasurably small, while the odds of it being a bad person very high.

Unless your roommate is a cop that seems a pretty remote chance to me.

If you really do believe there's a good chance it will be a cop why go armed at all? The flashlight will be the least worry if it really is a cop. He will have his OWN light and firearm, and that won't work out well regardless.

Why would a cop be in your home in the middle of the night unannounced? I guess I don't follow this.

[carguy2244]

Weapons that I keep loaded and ready for home defense all have mounted lights. Additionally, there are flashlights located throughout our house. Carry weapons usually do not have lights mounted to them, due to bulkiness. If I hear bump in the night, I'd definitely use the mounted light for illumination, keeping my finger outside the trigger guard. There's only my son and myself living here, there are no late night guests without announcing them, and both of us knows to announce to each other late night strolling through the house. If I heard a noise, I'd know it's not friendly, so I'd definitely will violate the rule of not pointing. If I'd be on target with a seperate light, and not on target with the gun, it would be almost impossible to get on target before my light gives away my position. On the other hand, if the the weapon and light is on target, and it is friendly, which is inconceiveable, I'd still have my finger ourtside the guard, able to hold my fire. I'd welcome opinions fron experts.

[YammyMonkey]

With some of the commentary I almost didn't wade in, but I just couldn't help myself.

With a quality light the whole violating rule #2 concern is strictly a training & personal control issue. In the largest room in my house I can point my TLR-1 at the ground about 3' in front of me & have enough spill to positively ID another person on the other end of the room. About 5' in front of me & I can ID someone on the other end of the house. Without dark adapted vision. In a blacked-out basement.

The light should be on for short durations & your tactics should involve movement between flashes.

The answer to the original question is have both, but for me I have weaponlights on all the house guns with a hand-held as a backup. The additional mobility of my non-firing hand is a serious bonus with a small kid around.

In the end either option is a compromise but both beat trying to defend your home with a Petzl head lamp. The best thng you can do is train, practice & know the limitations of your system.

I know for a fact that Kelly puts some damn good effort into his training which is a far sight better than a lot of folks out there.

[okespe04]

I like to hold the light in my left hand, I can shoot my G19 very well one handed. Also if I am clearing my home or some other area I would much rather shine a light in my friend's or family's face with the gun pointed in a somewhat safe direction that point a loaded gun right at them. Once the target (of friendly) is identified proper action can be taken very quickly. Either a sigh of relief and a lowered weapon in the case of a friendly or god forbid a loud bang if not.

[easyg]

I prefer the flexibility afforded by carrying a light in one hand and my pistol in the other hand.

With the light not attached to the pistol, I don't need to point the pistol toward something that I would like to illuminate.

I can also use the unattached light for misdirection (example: setting the light on a counter-top while stepping several feet to the side, which gives the bad guy a false target to shoot at while still illuminating him).

And, if need be, I can use the light itself as a weapon to subdue an aggressor whom I would rather not shoot.

I can use the unattached light to signal others (friendlies) while still keeping my pistol pointed toward the bad guy.


IMO, an attached light just limits one's tactics too much.

[Onward Allusion]

Ran into this situation last week. I'm a light sleeper and woke at a loud thump in the house around 2 AM. The alarm didn't go off, so I had to investigate... I woke my wife - who got the phone & pistol, I grabbed my nightstand pistol (with light), checked on the boys, and slowly crept downstairs to investigate...in that order. It turned out to be my son's band instrument falling over.

In hindsight, I would have preferred to have TWO lights. One attached to the weapon and one in my weak hand.

[sidheshooter]

Somewhat OT, but I'd be interested in opinions on strobing as a feature of lights (particularly hand-held, but if folks have used strobing to good effect with a mounted light, that would be interesting to note as well).

I personally like the option, but I'm no pro operator. Opinions?

[okespe04]

In hindsight, I would have preferred to have TWO lights. One attached to the weapon and one in my weak hand.

Brilliant, that's my setup from now on.

[SIGLBER]

Not as excited about gun mounted lights as I used to be. Yes the new ones can blind someone temporarily. But if he's got a buddy or not where your pointing he's going to shoot towards the light. The big thing is do you want to point a loaded weapon with a light on it and it might be a family member getting up for a snack? I have come to prefer the old F.B.I. method of holding the light in the hand opposite the gun and away from the body. Worst case is he hits the flashlight or your arm. No fun but better than if your gun mounted light is in low ready right around your heart. Or aiming with the gun lined up with your head. For me it's been back to the handy Surefire
flashlight.

[millertyme]

you put a 160 Lumen Surefire in someone's face and I dare them to shoot even remotely in the direction of that light before the light-holder puts a double-tap on you. Seems to me having something that bright on the end of your muzzle, whether it be a pistol, shotgun, or rifle, would still be a good idea even if the person set of a random shot - you can see, the BD can't. Why don't you make it easier on yourself - install emergency lighting set up to turn on with a remote fob you keeo in your room. It's a lot cheaper than you think. X10 modules aren't that costly, I think you can get a sizable package for around $350. Something goes bump in the night, reach over to the nightstand and, while reaching for your pistol/shotgun/rifle, touch the keypad and the lights come on. Problem solved.

[thriftyjoe]

After reading the discussion I think a mounted light is the pick. The extra hand on the flashlight can reduce accuracy. Accuracy is crucial during a fight especially when you heart starts pounding.

Think about it... if 70% of gunfights happen in the dark why don't we see more folks at the range practicing with a flashlight in one hand?

[KellyTTE]

Think about it... if 70% of gunfights happen in the dark why don't we see more folks at the range practicing with a flashlight in one hand?

People rarely practice whats hard and difficult. Simply put, its a mindset/ego issue.

Spending the money for a quality weapons light, finding quality low light training, finding somewhere that allows you to practice in low/no light conditions, finding out that shooting in the dark is harder/slower than punching paper in the daytime, etc, etc, etc. I especially see this issue a lot in people that own platforms that don't have native support for a weapons light (1911s, Revolver aficionados, older automatics and so forth). They would rather use inferior hardware (their weapon) and never bother to upgrade the software (their mindset).

Most folks don't like to do something that they're bad at, especially if there are other people watching. Its easier to blame the weapon, ergonomics, looks , situation, lack of time, money, whatever than to tackle the problem head on and solve it.

That's the short version.

[LWYM425]

No specific training in no/low light, here. after reading this I think I may look into that. Nothing wrong with more training. That said, I have something to confess...

If I am startled by a noise, or feel I should double/triple check my locks because I'm restless I will carry a light in my weak hand an my handgun in the other. I don't always turn it on if there is enough ambient light from street lights/the moon, but if I do its next to the gun at the low ready (the hallway lights up enough even with the beam on the floor).
So what I'm admitting is that light on or off, in hand or mounted, when i'm going around a corner I'll sweep the room I'm entering, regardless.

I have no children in the home, and the girlfriend is always fast asleep opposite me (I don't know how she does it, 5 minutes with her head on the pillow and she is OUT). That business about potentially targetting a friendly, or a cop... Why would a police officer enter my home without announcing him/herself? Friends/Family dropping by unexpected (not to mention stealthy entering my home, not turning on lights, and not saying a word) is highly unlikely to the point where I'd like to say it would never happen.

Deanimator, i don't know anymore about you than what you post, but I would have thought you would be the guy saying "once you enter my home without an invitation you have forfeited your right to safety" or something like that.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Does anyone have a logical argument against having the option of using both?

[TexasRifleman]

Somewhat OT, but I'd be interested in opinions on strobing as a feature of lights (particularly hand-held, but if folks have used strobing to good effect with a mounted light, that would be interesting to note as well).

No experience with them at all, but it's interesting. I would worry they would disorient the carrier as much as anyone they were aimed at.

http://www.impactguns.com/store/676812001278.html

[KellyTTE]

Does anyone have a logical argument against having the option of using both?

Nope. I have both a hand light and a weapon light generally. And a couple of knives. And occasionally OC. But to answer your question, having two lights is a fine idea.

Regarding strobes: Most of them have a certain click/switch combination that activates strobe mode. I'm not real certain how well they activate in real life, high stress situations. I do know that the Xiphos (Blackhawk's weapons light) added almost a second of activation time on the shot timer trying to get the strobe mode activated (when i could get the triple tap required) before taking a shot.