New guy, civil war arms info.

Smellie SMLE · November 4, 2009, 12:14 AM

Hello everyone, thought it was about time to join a gun forum.

I have a few questions regarding some of my me and my dads civil war weaponry. Me and my dad do reenactments in South Georgia as a hobby, he uses an 1853 Enfield and I a Cook & Brother Artillery Carbine. I finally shot the Cook & Brother this weekend at my friends house, and its amazin!!!

I also fired my dads Spiller & Burr this weekend with .375" balls, hope thats right? It has F.LLIPIETTA stamped on the barrel, is this a reputable company? I google how to load it and everything, i put in 20 grains of FFFg and rammed the ball home. Everything went well, all 6 shots, it was pretty noisy for 20 grains in my opinion, but I LOVE the noise! One last question on this gun is how to dismantle it properly for cleaning, the hammer is really hard to pull back post-firing, I hope thats just residue causing that!!!

My dad has a Spencer Repeating rifle, original, not a replica. I was wondering, does anyone still make 56-56 ammunition?

Tommygunn · November 4, 2009, 12:43 AM

F.LLIPIETTA is a good company, second to Uberti by the account of many hear. BTW the company name, as stamped on the barrel, is the Italian abbreviation for "Fratelli Pietta," which translates to "Pietta Brothers" in English. IIRC they do usually take .375" balls.
As to the Spencer, that's a very interesting repeater. I don't know if .56-56 is being made .. ... the only thing I recall is that it is .... or atleast was possible to have them converted to fire modern ammunition. I don't recall who was doing this; IIRC it involved replacing the bolt block and lining the barrel.

As to dismantling the revolver, below the barrel on the frame is a thumb twist. Put the empty gun on half cock and twist it 180 degrees, and release the loading lever, and pull it forward. The cylinder should rotate out to the right.

Smellie SMLE · November 4, 2009, 12:49 AM

Thanks for the info, it helped a bunch.

**4v50 Gary** · November 4, 2009, 01:00 AM

I don't think anyone makes ammunition for the Spencer. Go to the N-SSA website and ask those guys what they do. I know that there's a reproduction Spencer, but it uses centerfire ammunition.

bonza · November 4, 2009, 01:33 AM

Pretty sure you can get a CF block conversion for your Spencer. The N-SSA guys would know for sure.

sackettboys · November 4, 2009, 08:34 AM

the N-SSA guys have been shooting converted original Spencers for years, way before any repros came out, another place to ask is in the CAS City forums under the Spencer Shooting Society - http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/ind...oard,35.0.html

madcratebuilder · November 4, 2009, 08:58 AM

If you use the search function here you well find several threads on the Spiller & Burr. Several members here own one or more.

sharps59 · November 4, 2009, 01:57 PM

Check the N-SSA Board Someone make conversion blocks for the originals.

Hawkeye748 · November 4, 2009, 08:57 PM

Easy questions first.

No one is making rimfire ammo for a Spencer.

S & S Firearms has a conversion block for a Spencer. It may require some fitting to your gun but most it just drops into in place of the original block. This allows the the shooting of center fire ammunition instead of rimfire. They should also have the brass and loading dies for making your own ammo. To my knowledge, no one loads the CF Spencer ammo commercially. Here is their web page:

wwwssfirearms.com

The Spiller and Burr is essentially a copy of the 1858 Navy Remington. You should be able to get a breakdown description off the web. If you search for the Remington as well as the S&B, you should be able to find what you need.

If you and your dad ever get the urge to shoot with the N-SSA in competition, there are teams based in southern Georgia and the Deep South region. Here is the N-SSA web site. You can link up to other folks there and through the BB.

www.n-ssa.org

There is a bulletin board where you can ask any questions you might have. The problems that you are experiencing with the S&B could have number of sources. If it is a new gun with little use, it could be just that it needs some polishing to remove machining burrs, etc. If it is older, it may be neglect. Without examining it, it is impossible to say one way or the other. A good thorough breakdown and cleaning will answer a lot of your questions.

The Enfield your dad uses is likely a reasonably well made copy of the originals, depending on who made it. It likely has some issues that can be corrected but should be a reasonably shootable weapon.

Your Cook and Brother Carbine, unless an original or been modified to correct the problems, is likely not a correct reproduction. The Cook and Brother reproductions have not been faithfully reproduced by their current makers. They have been examined by the N-SSA and there are problems with all of them that vary from the originals. One specific problem I know about is the trigger guard and tang plates.

Good luck!

Smellie SMLE · November 4, 2009, 10:13 PM

Thanks, this NSSA site came in handy!

Smellie SMLE · November 4, 2009, 10:51 PM

Yea, i cannont figure out how to get this cylinder out. I'm not postive whats half cock on this gun, it makes 3 clicks on the way back, the first two the trigger can be pulled and the cylinder spins. this little thumb screw thing is really loose too and I have no idea what direction to turn it or how the pin works.

Smellie SMLE · November 4, 2009, 11:25 PM

I take that back, I figured out the flathead screw comes out of the thumb screw, then pull out the lever, than the cylinder, just hope my nipple wrench for the enfield fits the spiller!

Smokin_Gun · November 4, 2009, 11:50 PM

Place the cylinder pin release selector on horizontal...use the lever, ram, & press against the cylinders webs. Out it should come... at the halfcock so as it spins and is not locked up by the bolt.

Tommygunn · November 5, 2009, 12:15 AM

Quote:

The Spiller and Burr is essentially a copy of the 1858 Navy Remington

It has certain similarities to the Remmie but it is a Confederate copy of the Eli Whitney .36 Navy. The frame had more brass in front of the cylinder to make up for the fact that brass is softer than steel.

Just being picky .... ;-)

EDIT; it should be unnecessary to use a screwdriver to turn the thumb twist; just turn the twist by hand. Make sure it's horizontal -- if the arbor refuses to come out twist 180° and try again.

BHP FAN · November 5, 2009, 12:45 AM

kinda like a ball valve,you want the ''handle'' in the direction of flow.

Smellie SMLE · November 5, 2009, 01:08 AM

Now that i've taken the pin out, i can see what turning it horizontal does with that groove cut out. And it was a good tip to push the lever in the middle of the chambers, otherwise i dont think I couldve yanked it out (scared of breaking something).

BHP FAN · November 5, 2009, 02:16 AM

Yeah these guys are pretty good about that sort of thing.Say, I was considering what you said about half cock...did you ever find it,or is it possible your half cock notch is broken? What you have there,by the way, is my favorite brass framed bp sixgun!

Smellie SMLE · November 5, 2009, 04:47 PM

Well i'm glad to here it, and in about a day from now its gonna be feral hogs least favorite brass framed bp sixgun.

dispatch55126 · November 5, 2009, 05:22 PM

The last time I swa commercial .56-56 was about a year and half ago. I want to say Black Hills or Goex had a run of obsolete cartridges.

goon · November 9, 2009, 04:43 AM

Check Track of the Wolf for .56-56 brass.

Allison · November 9, 2009, 07:18 AM

If I knew then what I know now, the Spiller would
have been my very first BP purchase. I've had
absolutely no issues with it. The only criticism I
can think of is that there are no safety notches
on the cylinder. At least on the one I have.

Allison · November 9, 2009, 05:38 PM

Smelliesmle...My Buffalo Arms catalog has a section featuring obsolete cases.
It lists 56-56 Spencer CF 1.120" long at $196/100.

November 4, 2009, 12:14 AM	#1
Smellie SMLE Member Join Date: November 3, 2009 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 9	New guy, civil war arms info. Hello everyone, thought it was about time to join a gun forum. I have a few questions regarding some of my me and my dads civil war weaponry. Me and my dad do reenactments in South Georgia as a hobby, he uses an 1853 Enfield and I a Cook & Brother Artillery Carbine. I finally shot the Cook & Brother this weekend at my friends house, and its amazin!!! I also fired my dads Spiller & Burr this weekend with .375" balls, hope thats right? It has F.LLIPIETTA stamped on the barrel, is this a reputable company? I google how to load it and everything, i put in 20 grains of FFFg and rammed the ball home. Everything went well, all 6 shots, it was pretty noisy for 20 grains in my opinion, but I LOVE the noise! One last question on this gun is how to dismantle it properly for cleaning, the hammer is really hard to pull back post-firing, I hope thats just residue causing that!!! My dad has a Spencer Repeating rifle, original, not a replica. I was wondering, does anyone still make 56-56 ammunition?

November 4, 2009, 12:43 AM	#2
Tommygunn Member Join Date: June 14, 2006 Location: Morgan County, Alabama Posts: 1,827	F.LLIPIETTA is a good company, second to Uberti by the account of many hear. BTW the company name, as stamped on the barrel, is the Italian abbreviation for "Fratelli Pietta," which translates to "Pietta Brothers" in English. IIRC they do usually take .375" balls. As to the Spencer, that's a very interesting repeater. I don't know if .56-56 is being made .. ... the only thing I recall is that it is .... or atleast was possible to have them converted to fire modern ammunition. I don't recall who was doing this; IIRC it involved replacing the bolt block and lining the barrel. As to dismantling the revolver, below the barrel on the frame is a thumb twist. Put the *empty* gun on half cock and twist it 180 degrees, and release the loading lever, and pull it forward. The cylinder should rotate out to the right. __________________ *MOLON LABE*

November 4, 2009, 01:00 AM	#4
4v50 Gary Moderator Join Date: December 20, 2002 Posts: 11,819	I don't think anyone makes ammunition for the Spencer. Go to the N-SSA website and ask those guys what they do. I know that there's a reproduction Spencer, but it uses centerfire ammunition. __________________ TFL Aluminium. Molon Labe!

November 4, 2009, 01:33 AM	#5
bonza Member Join Date: February 2, 2007 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 473	Pretty sure you can get a CF block conversion for your Spencer. The N-SSA guys would know for sure. __________________ "Decadence: we're on the verge of it.....you get air-conditioning & the next day Mom leaves the house in a skin-tight dress, holding a cigarette & a glass of gin, walking an ocelot on a leash." Garrison Keillor: Lake Wobegon Days

November 4, 2009, 08:58 AM	#7
madcratebuilder Member Join Date: July 15, 2007 Location: Northern Orygun Posts: 1,926	If you use the search function here you well find several threads on the Spiller & Burr. Several members here own one or more. __________________ A Veteran, whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to “The United States of America” for an amount of “up to and including my life.”

November 4, 2009, 12:49 AM	#3
Smellie SMLE Member Join Date: November 3, 2009 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 9	Thanks for the info, it helped a bunch.

November 4, 2009, 08:34 AM	#6
sackettboys Member Join Date: October 31, 2006 Location: SW Missouri Posts: 25	the N-SSA guys have been shooting converted original Spencers for years, way before any repros came out, another place to ask is in the CAS City forums under the Spencer Shooting Society - http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/ind...oard,35.0.html

November 4, 2009, 01:57 PM	#8
sharps59 Member Join Date: March 21, 2008 Location: Standing on the Rock Posts: 156	Check the N-SSA Board Someone make conversion blocks for the originals. __________________ member N-SSA. "THE INMATES ARE RUNNING THE ASYLUM " WASHINGTON, D.C. 2009

November 4, 2009, 08:57 PM	#9
Hawkeye748 Member Join Date: May 17, 2009 Posts: 177	Easy questions first. No one is making rimfire ammo for a Spencer. S & S Firearms has a conversion block for a Spencer. It may require some fitting to your gun but most it just drops into in place of the original block. This allows the the shooting of center fire ammunition instead of rimfire. They should also have the brass and loading dies for making your own ammo. To my knowledge, no one loads the CF Spencer ammo commercially. Here is their web page: wwwssfirearms.com The Spiller and Burr is essentially a copy of the 1858 Navy Remington. You should be able to get a breakdown description off the web. If you search for the Remington as well as the S&B, you should be able to find what you need. If you and your dad ever get the urge to shoot with the N-SSA in competition, there are teams based in southern Georgia and the Deep South region. Here is the N-SSA web site. You can link up to other folks there and through the BB. www.n-ssa.org There is a bulletin board where you can ask any questions you might have. The problems that you are experiencing with the S&B could have number of sources. If it is a new gun with little use, it could be just that it needs some polishing to remove machining burrs, etc. If it is older, it may be neglect. Without examining it, it is impossible to say one way or the other. A good thorough breakdown and cleaning will answer a lot of your questions. The Enfield your dad uses is likely a reasonably well made copy of the originals, depending on who made it. It likely has some issues that can be corrected but should be a reasonably shootable weapon. Your Cook and Brother Carbine, unless an original or been modified to correct the problems, is likely not a correct reproduction. The Cook and Brother reproductions have not been faithfully reproduced by their current makers. They have been examined by the N-SSA and there are problems with all of them that vary from the originals. One specific problem I know about is the trigger guard and tang plates. Good luck!

November 4, 2009, 10:13 PM	#10
Smellie SMLE Member Join Date: November 3, 2009 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 9	Thanks, this NSSA site came in handy!

November 4, 2009, 10:51 PM	#11
Smellie SMLE Member Join Date: November 3, 2009 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 9	Yea, i cannont figure out how to get this cylinder out. I'm not postive whats half cock on this gun, it makes 3 clicks on the way back, the first two the trigger can be pulled and the cylinder spins. this little thumb screw thing is really loose too and I have no idea what direction to turn it or how the pin works.

November 4, 2009, 11:25 PM	#12
Smellie SMLE Member Join Date: November 3, 2009 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 9	I take that back, I figured out the flathead screw comes out of the thumb screw, then pull out the lever, than the cylinder, just hope my nipple wrench for the enfield fits the spiller!

November 4, 2009, 11:50 PM	#13
Smokin_Gun Member Join Date: May 10, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, California Posts: 1,493	Place the cylinder pin release selector on horizontal...use the lever, ram, & press against the cylinders webs. Out it should come... at the halfcock so as it spins and is not locked up by the bolt. __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor 1858 NMA Remington" Smokin' Gun Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cav C.S.A. SASS# 19634, FROCS #24, Admin BPR voy.com/60048/

November 5, 2009, 12:45 AM	#15
BHP FAN Member Join Date: September 23, 2008 Location: Northern California Posts: 2,131	kinda like a ball valve,you want the ''handle'' in the direction of flow. __________________ Make yourselves sheep, and the wolves will eat you. - Benjamin Franklin

November 5, 2009, 01:08 AM	#16
Smellie SMLE Member Join Date: November 3, 2009 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 9	Now that i've taken the pin out, i can see what turning it horizontal does with that groove cut out. And it was a good tip to push the lever in the middle of the chambers, otherwise i dont think I couldve yanked it out (scared of breaking something).

November 5, 2009, 02:16 AM	#17
BHP FAN Member Join Date: September 23, 2008 Location: Northern California Posts: 2,131	Yeah these guys are pretty good about that sort of thing.Say, I was considering what you said about half cock...did you ever find it,or is it possible your half cock notch is broken? What you have there,by the way, is my favorite brass framed bp sixgun! __________________ Make yourselves sheep, and the wolves will eat you. - Benjamin Franklin

November 5, 2009, 04:47 PM	#18
Smellie SMLE Member Join Date: November 3, 2009 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 9	Well i'm glad to here it, and in about a day from now its gonna be feral hogs least favorite brass framed bp sixgun.

November 5, 2009, 05:22 PM	#19
dispatch55126 Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,182	The last time I swa commercial .56-56 was about a year and half ago. I want to say Black Hills or Goex had a run of obsolete cartridges. __________________ -My collection is none of your business 105th Engineer Combat Battalion http://105th.org/ http://www.worldwartwohrs.org/index.htm

November 9, 2009, 04:43 AM	#20
goon Member Join Date: January 20, 2003 Posts: 3,999	Check Track of the Wolf for .56-56 brass.

November 9, 2009, 07:18 AM	#21
Allison Member Join Date: August 13, 2009 Location: Athens, OH Posts: 40	If I knew then what I know now, the Spiller would have been my very first BP purchase. I've had absolutely no issues with it. The only criticism I can think of is that there are no safety notches on the cylinder. At least on the one I have.

November 9, 2009, 05:38 PM	#22
Allison Member Join Date: August 13, 2009 Location: Athens, OH Posts: 40	Smelliesmle...My Buffalo Arms catalog has a section featuring obsolete cases. It lists 56-56 Spencer CF 1.120" long at $196/100.

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