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Old December 7, 2011, 04:27 PM   #26
kb58
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I'm in the dreaded California everyone hates. I just purchased two Ruger Mk IIIs (sequential numbers) with the intention of giving one to my wife for her birthday. I mentioned it to my FFL at the time and I'm pretty sure he said that it has to go through him. Are the rules you guys quoting above Federal or state... though even as I type this I realize that Cali probably did something different anyway...
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Old December 7, 2011, 04:33 PM   #27
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These are FEDERAL laws. The states may be more restrictive. CA IS.

Here is the first line from the NRA's sheet on CA:

Quote:
All firearms sales, transfers, including private transactions and sales at gun shows, must go through a California licensed firearms dealer.
An application for sale or transfer must be made with a licensed California gun dealer before any firearm may be sold or transferred.
...
No person shall purchase or transfer a handgun to
someone without the recipient possessing a HSC.
However, the good news is that you don't have to go through the waiting period with immediate family.

http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/CASL.pdf
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Old December 7, 2011, 04:47 PM   #28
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Yeah okay, thanks. Right now things are at a tentative stage, with my wife still thinking that guns are evil. It would probably be best to just loan it to her at the range, at least until the novelty wears off. I doubt her getting grilled by a gun-loving FFL is going to spin things in a positive direction, lol.

Thanks again.
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Old December 7, 2011, 05:35 PM   #29
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Just loan it to them

State laws may vary, but federally, you can loan a firearm to a non-prohibited person.

Now, there is an internet interpretation of the law that would put a borrower in violation of the law if the loaner is from another state and the gun is borrowed outside of that state. But despite the inharmonious wording of the law, the ATF has told me that they don't interpret it that way. Here's what their FAQ says...
Quote:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unli...censed-acquire

Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?

... A person may loan .. a firearm to a resident of any State...

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?

... A person may borrow .. a firearm in any State...
I keep meaning to send a letter to their Rregulatory Enforcement office, but I'm lazy.
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Old December 7, 2011, 05:51 PM   #30
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I think the issue with that one is that, while you may loan a firearm to a person FROM any state, and while you may borrow a firearm IN any state, going to another state and borrowing a firearm and bringing it home with you violates Title 18, Chapter 44, Part 1, Section 922 (A)(3):

" 922. Unlawful acts
(a) It shall be unlawful—
...
(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides ... any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, ..."

So it certainly does seem as though you can legally loan something to someone to use while they are visiting, but they can't take that firearm home with them when they go.
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Old December 7, 2011, 06:47 PM   #31
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That's what I was referring to, yes.

There are two ways to borrow a firearm in violation of the written law:
  • Bring it back into your state (from a lender out of state).
  • The out of state lender, leaves it with you in your state.
When I spoke to the ATF, I made it clear on these specific points, but was told that they don't interpret it that way (I know the phone call means nothing). You're pushing me boy! I'll write that letter, I will!

So Granpa comes out here to hunt elk with me, has a medical emergency and has to fly back to his state, leaving me with his rifle. I'm breaking federal law by holding onto it... ATF says no, THR says yes!
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Last edited by CoRoMo; December 7, 2011 at 07:13 PM. Reason: ribbing
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Old December 7, 2011, 07:09 PM   #32
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Don't want to hi-jack the thread, but I also have a "gifting" question.

I know a person has to be 21 years of age in order to purchase a firearm from an FLL.
But at what age can a person receive a firearm as a gift?

I'm thinking of giving a firearm to my nephew.
He goes with me to the range on a regular basis & it'd be neat for him to have his own gun to shoot.
He's 18 & lives in the same county as I.
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Old December 7, 2011, 07:16 PM   #33
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I think this is the type of thread where hi-jacking is going to be expected/part of the experience.

Per Federal law, the minimum age is 18 because the gift (your scenario) is on the same level as if he bought it, not through a dealer, but a private FTF with someone like you. Your state law might say something different than the federal law though.
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Old December 7, 2011, 07:37 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondo 60
I know a person has to be 21 years of age in order to purchase a firearm from an FLL.
But at what age can a person receive a firearm as a gift?

I'm thinking of giving a firearm to my nephew.
He goes with me to the range on a regular basis & it'd be neat for him to have his own gun to shoot.
He's 18 & lives in the same county as I.
18 is the age limit in Federal law 18 USC 922 (x) and Wisconsin state law:

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/sta...tatutes/948/60
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Old December 7, 2011, 07:59 PM   #35
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Quote:
I know a person has to be 21 years of age in order to purchase a firearm from an FLL.
But at what age can a person receive a firearm as a gift?
21 years of age is the federal minimum to buy a handgun from a dealer. 18 is the federal minimum to buy a rifle or shotgun from a dealer.

Gifting or private sales of a handgun requires that the recipient be 18.

Gifting or private sales of a rifle or shotgun, the legal minimums are set by the states.
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Old December 7, 2011, 08:04 PM   #36
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Quote:
I know the phone call means nothing. You're pushing me boy! I'll write that letter, I will!
Please do! Love to get them to make a statement one way or another. Always fun to see them enforce the law in direct contradiction of the text.
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Old December 10, 2011, 09:37 PM   #37
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CoRoMo, NavyLCDR & Sam1911

Thanks for the replies! I appreciate it.
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Old December 20, 2011, 03:16 PM   #38
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Well, I called an FFL transfer Pawn shop/gun dealer and they said all I need is a document stating the pistol is a gift and for him and myself to sign it.

Sound right?
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Old December 20, 2011, 04:25 PM   #39
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Quote:
Well, I called an FFL transfer Pawn shop/gun dealer and they said all I need is a document stating the pistol is a gift and for him and myself to sign it.
The document isn't necessary. All that is required is that they process a Form 4473 for the transfer.
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Old December 20, 2011, 04:54 PM   #40
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Is 98C5 talking about a gift across state lines or just within his state?
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Old December 20, 2011, 05:05 PM   #41
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Quote:
Is 98C5 talking about a gift across state lines or just within his state?
He said:
Quote:
My fiance and I are traveling to Georgia in 2 weeks to see her son and wife. I plan to give one of my pistols as a gift. I have a CCW that is good through South Carolina. Looks like it is ok to go through Georgia as long as they are unloaded and in a case.

Can I just take him to a local FFL and have them put the pistol in his name?
It appears he wants to give a gun as a gift to someone in another state.
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Old December 20, 2011, 05:09 PM   #42
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Oh yeah. He's the OP and we're on page 2!

Dang me.

I tried to warn him!
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Old December 20, 2011, 05:11 PM   #43
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Old December 20, 2011, 05:19 PM   #44
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To Whoom It May Concern.....

Just so you know....

I have a CCW License from the State of Wisconsin and a Utah State Permit, both making it legal for me to carry in many other states...

If anyone out there has an urge or need to give a firearm as a gift, I would be happy to provide the address of my FFL dealer.....

Add you have my word I would give them all good homes by keep them fed regularly along with regular bathing, and every night, telling each and every one of them how much I love them...

Don't you just love Christmas...

Outdoorsman1
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Old December 20, 2011, 05:26 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 98C5
Well, I called an FFL transfer Pawn shop/gun dealer and they said all I need is a document stating the pistol is a gift and for him and myself to sign it.

Sound right?
Without the FFL transfer which means a form 4473 and NICS check done by the FFL, your signed document would be documenting (confessing) that two felonies were committed.
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Old December 20, 2011, 08:11 PM   #46
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Not a problem all.

I will in fact do the FFL transfer when I get there.

I appreciate everyones advice!!

Thanks!
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Old December 22, 2011, 03:30 PM   #47
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Is a background check needed if the person recieving the gift already has a CCW permit
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Old December 22, 2011, 03:41 PM   #48
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Just as an FYI, Minnesota changed their law this year and all handgun and assault weapon transfers now require the MN resident to either have a Permit to Purchase or a CCW permit or the seller needs to fill out a transfer form and turn it in to the local chief of police.

This is now true for person to person transfers as well as FFL transfers.

The statute in question: https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=624.7132
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Last edited by Ultravox; December 22, 2011 at 03:42 PM. Reason: Added CCW permit
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Old December 22, 2011, 03:51 PM   #49
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Quote:
I'm in the dreaded California everyone hates. I just purchased two Ruger Mk IIIs (sequential numbers) with the intention of giving one to my wife for her birthday.

I mentioned it to my FFL at the time and I'm pretty sure he said that it has to go through him.
California has an exception for spouses; if you buy the gun, it's probably community property anyway, but you can 'transmute' the gun to your wife's property by filing a form with a fee - no need to see your Friendly Local FFL twice.

See http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Tr...Family_Members
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Old December 23, 2011, 11:43 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JASEDS View Post
Is a background check needed if the person recieving the gift already has a CCW permit
Welcome to THR!

If the gift crosses state lines, the transaction must go through a dealer, which would include a form 4473 and *usually* a NICS background check. Now, if the recipient's state is one that allows buyer to present a carry permit in lieu of the NICS check, then the transaction would go through a licensed dealer, the form 4473 filled out, and the carry permit would substitute for the background check.

My state isn't one that utilizes the carry permit substitution practice, so I'm only about 98% sure on what I'm telling you here, but this is what I understand it to be.
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