Slow rust bluing

Mauser lover · May 3, 2012, 11:17 AM

I was looking to rust blue a .22 barrel, and was wondering if anyone had any tips or tricks on how to this well.

What solution should I get? (don't want to make my own)

What can I use to boil it in? (don't want to buy a tank from Brownells for $60.00)

Do I need to build a giant humidifier?

Do I really need to plug the bore? Or is it better if I didn't?

Thanks in advance for any help you can give.

**Sam1911** · May 3, 2012, 12:57 PM

I've done a little bit of rust bluing. Brownell's Classic Rust Blue is cheap and gave me much better results than I probably deserved. (Though I did try VERY hard to follow the instructions.)

The problem with the barrel is the length. You can boil it in any stainless pot you can fit it in, but that's why they sell the tanks they do. I bought a $5 stock pot from WalMart to do my small items, but sure couldn't have fit a barrel in it.

As far as the rusting process, you don't strictly HAVE to have anything special for humidifying. I put a couple 9x13 baking pans of water in the oven and set it on extra-low and hung my items on tie-wire from the baking element supports inside. Easy and fast rusting. But, again, it'd have to be a fairly short barrel to fit in an oven. You could get much the same effect, probably, by hanging it in your bathroom while your family does the morning shower routine.

You don't want to over-etch the metal, though, so letting the item sit and rust for 24 hours+ isn't a good idea. You can get frosty looking results if you let the rust get too deep a hold.

I'd plug the bore. It really shouldn't be hard. Any 3" piece of wood dowel you could whittle to a point and tap in tightly will do just fine and give you something to hold onto while you're handling it.

Mauser lover · May 3, 2012, 03:11 PM

Okay, thanks for the hints, Sam 1911. I had my "grandfather" (adopted by my mother) offer to give me some sheet metal and let me use his welder to make a trough.

Brownell's is out of stock of that product, do they get it back into stock often? Is it a 3 month wait?

So..... I can pick up a dowel at Wal Mart and chuck it in a lathe and attack it with some sandpaper to give it a nice taper? Does it have to be some special wood? Softwood fine?

**Sam1911** · May 3, 2012, 03:20 PM

The instructions that come with the bottle of bluing are very good. A softer wood would probably work even better than a harder wood. "Softwood" (coniferous/evergreen tree) isn't usually used for dowels, but Poplar often is. And though it is a "hardwood" (deciduous) it is softer than some "softwoods" like Southern Yellow Pine.

That's odd that it is out of stock. Probably will have it again soon. There are some other rust blues listed there (like "Belgian Blue") but I've not tried them.

BWB · May 3, 2012, 05:18 PM

Another option is the Pilkington's solution available from Brownell's. The solution itself may or may not be better (I suspect they're all about the same), but the instruction pamphlet that comes with it is VERY detailed. It gives you guidance on polishing, degreasing, troubleshooting, water requirements, etc. If you follow the instructions, you will be able to achieve fine results the first time.

mbopp · May 3, 2012, 05:23 PM

If you make your own tank, I'm not sure but doesn't it have to be stainless steel?

Jim K · May 3, 2012, 05:57 PM

The tank can be ordinary sheet iron, it doesn't have to be stainless.

I recommend you make those muzzle/breech plugs so they stick out about 6 inches; that way you can use them as handles when holding the barrel and not touch the barrel.

Jim

Mauser lover · May 3, 2012, 09:36 PM

Well, the "Belgian blue" is in stock, but that is kind of a huge container, and Pilkington's solution is out of stock. After seeing the prices on those things, I really like the first suggestion best.... Anyone know where I can get some?

Lucifer_Sam · May 4, 2012, 04:43 AM

Gun goddes rust blue solution is very good, also. He also sends a really good booklet with his product.

Rust bluing is really dependent on metal prep. You want to sand up to about 400 or so, and you need to get rid of any oil. That part has to be repeated, get rid of any oil whatsoever. You'll need to use gloves to prevent finger oils from messing up the process. If you're cheap like me, a puff of talcum powder in the gloves will let you reuse the same pair of disposables a few extra times.

If you're using a buffer to prep be careful not to gouge out your screw holes, cartouches, engravings, ect.

It depends on your humidity whether you need a cabinet or not. Unless you're somewhere really arid you should be ok, might just take a bit longer.

If you use steel wool to card you need to be sure to degrease it, too.

With the exception of oil contamination, its actually not all that hard, and can be a somewhat forgiving process.

**Sam1911** · May 4, 2012, 07:50 AM

Quote:

You want to sand up to about 400 or so

Oh...forgot that point (though it will likely be covered in the great instructions many of these solutions are packaged with).

You DON'T want to polish the steel up to some insane luster. IIRC, the Classic Rust Blue I've used said to go to ~320 grit or so. Too fine a polish will make it harder for the rust to propogate.

Mauser lover · May 4, 2012, 10:45 AM

Alright, where do I get Gun Goddess rust blue?

Is 600 grit sandpaper okay to use?

**Sam1911** · May 4, 2012, 11:36 AM

600 might be a bit finer than you want. Read the instructions.

TurtlePhish · May 4, 2012, 05:18 PM

Laurel Mountain Forge Barrel Brown and Degreaser is also a rust blue solution, it works well and you can touch the barrel with bare hands while it's rusting. It has a detergent in the formula to cut fingerprints. Around $10 for a bottle big enough to do 2 or 3 complete guns.

Mauser lover · May 4, 2012, 05:45 PM

Okay, 400 it is.

Is this the stuff?

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=1...100025_d_11270

Sorry for the long link, it seems like this is a browning, not a bluing solution. Is the only difference between the solutions the boiling part?

If it will work, will it be as good of a finish?

TurtlePhish · May 4, 2012, 06:45 PM

That's it. Their solution is good for either, it comes with instructions for both. The process is identical except for the boiling. I've seem some guns done with it and they look just as good as any other rust blue solution. I used it to brown an old pump (don't ask) and the stuff works great. I handled the barrel/receiver with my bare hands a few times to test the stuff and there were no marks.

Mauser lover · May 4, 2012, 07:42 PM

SWEET! I like the price, but more than that, IT'S IN STOCK! okay, enough excitement for one day, thanks for all of the help everyone. Oh wait, one more thing; a review on that browning stuff said that I needed a carding wheel.... is 0000 steel wool still fine?

TurtlePhish · May 4, 2012, 08:20 PM

0000 steel wool is perfect. It'll give you a great finish, just take a little longer.

Lucifer_Sam · May 5, 2012, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mauser lover

Alright, where do I get Gun Goddess rust blue?

Jim Baiar, Half moon Rifle shop. 406 862 4409. He has no internet presence, hes about as "old school" as you can get. The formula is his own. Smart man, very courteous and helpful. His solution gives a deep lustrous dark blue. Ive heard that Pilks is more of a bluish color, and I'd like to try that, but Gun goddes gives such beautiful results that I'm hesitant.

lathedog · May 5, 2012, 01:31 PM

I've actually rust blued stuff before.

You need a humidity cabinet. Wood is preferred. You need something to make it humid in there, like a hotplate with a bowl of water. If it gets too humid, and condensation forms, you will ruin the job. You want to not start a fire, so be careful with your heat source.

You need boiling water to neutralize the reaction. This does not require a stainless tank, or titanium, or anything like that. Pouring boiling water over the work would work in theory. Anything that can stand boiling water and hold your work is probably fine. Change the water (when it cools down) after every couple of uses.

If you plug the barrel, and the plugs blow out when you boil the barrel, hot boiling water will blow all over you. Its up to you, but I prefer not to be spashed with lots of boiling water. The rust blue solution will not get into the bore unless you put it there.

You want to watch your metal prep as the solution does not take well to highly polished surfaces. Think 320 grit as a maximum. 220 grit is good enough so long as it is even. Media blast is best.

Your skin oil will ruin the process. Wear nitrile gloves, then wash your hands with gloves on to remove any oil from the gloves. Soak your steel wool in acetone to remove the oil that comes on the steel wool. I cannot overstress the importance of careful decontamination of any grease or oil.

Wire wheel or steel wool the oxide off ("carding") with just enough pressure to remove the crumbly stuff. Dont get overeager and buff off your actual bluing. I use steel wool that is still damp from an acetone dip.

Oil when complete and enjoy.

buckbrush · May 8, 2012, 07:02 PM

I use PVC pipes for pouring boiling water into.

Mauser lover · May 8, 2012, 11:03 PM

Too late buckbrush, I already have a trough thingy to boil it in :P

Lathedog, would it be alright if I just hung it over a pot that was being warmed on the stove? Meaning the stove is on the lowest setting, and the barrel is suspended above it, with no cabinet or anything?

TurtlePhish · May 9, 2012, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Lathedog, would it be alright if I just hung it over a pot that was being warmed on the stove? Meaning the stove is on the lowest setting, and the barrel is suspended above it, with no cabinet or anything?

You might get condensation, which is a no-no. You don't NEED a cabinet; it's only important if you live in a really dry area. My parts rusted fine in the open air.

**Sam1911** · May 9, 2012, 08:36 AM

Yes, turtlephish is correct -- if you get condensation, that's not good. However, if you don't, it's about perfect.

Your parts may rust fine in the open air.

JimfromTrafalgar · May 9, 2012, 10:25 AM

The Laurel Mt. product works very well but is a bit on the aggressive side. Since you're not using a chamber, this will be less of an issue, but apply in a very thin coat. Also, as you near the desired color, it's often better to dilute the agent with distilled water. This will rust a bit slower, but will also give a finer grain to the finish. BTW, a simple rusting cabinet can be built very simply and inexpensively. A shelf down low, cut out to hold a steel bowl of water, with a light bulb below the bowl, will give you some extra heat and humidity without causing condensation. According to Angiers, and based upon what I've found via experience, heat is fairly critical in getting an even rust. I've found optimum temps to be 85-90 deg. F, which is exactly what Angiers had to say on the subject. Anything above normal 70 deg. or so room temp helps however. Too hot and you get a VERY AGGRESSIVE rust. With the simple cabinet I've desribed, using a 100 watt bulb, and that will not be an issue.
I could probably ramble on endlessly, but I'll stop here, unless you have further questions.
Luck,
Jim

Mauser lover · May 9, 2012, 11:07 AM

I don't think that having a pot of water on the stove is going to be a problem with condensation, I don't want to boil the water, and having the stove under the barrel will give it some heat, hopefully the right amount. Right?

I don't live in an extremely dry climate, but I don't live in Missouri either... Hope it works.

JimfromTrafalgar, no, please ramble on indefinitely! I need all the help I can get.

How long should I boil it after I let it rust?

May 3, 2012, 11:17 AM	#1
Mauser lover Member Join Date: July 13, 2011 Location: SD! Posts: 521	Slow rust bluing I was looking to rust blue a .22 barrel, and was wondering if anyone had any tips or tricks on how to this well. What solution should I get? (don't want to make my own) What can I use to boil it in? (don't want to buy a tank from Brownells for $60.00) Do I need to build a giant humidifier? Do I really need to plug the bore? Or is it better if I didn't? Thanks in advance for any help you can give. __________________ Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36 (KJV) If you take away my second amendment, you are messing with my first amendment. Not dead, just at college.

May 3, 2012, 12:57 PM	#2
Sam1911 Moderator Join Date: October 22, 2007 Location: Central PA Posts: 20,883	I've done a little bit of rust bluing. Brownell's Classic Rust Blue is cheap and gave me much better results than I probably deserved. (Though I did try VERY hard to follow the instructions.) The problem with the barrel is the length. You can boil it in any stainless pot you can fit it in, but that's why they sell the tanks they do. I bought a $5 stock pot from WalMart to do my small items, but sure couldn't have fit a barrel in it. As far as the rusting process, you don't strictly HAVE to have anything special for humidifying. I put a couple 9x13 baking pans of water in the oven and set it on extra-low and hung my items on tie-wire from the baking element supports inside. Easy and fast rusting. But, again, it'd have to be a fairly short barrel to fit in an oven. You could get much the same effect, probably, by hanging it in your bathroom while your family does the morning shower routine. You don't want to over-etch the metal, though, so letting the item sit and rust for 24 hours+ isn't a good idea. You can get frosty looking results if you let the rust get too deep a hold. I'd plug the bore. It really shouldn't be hard. Any 3" piece of wood dowel you could whittle to a point and tap in tightly will do just fine and give you something to hold onto while you're handling it. __________________ -- Sam "...with liberty and justice for all." (Must be 18. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states.) -D. Stanhope Sights Practical Shooters -- IDPA My Knife Showroom

May 3, 2012, 03:11 PM	#3
Mauser lover Member Join Date: July 13, 2011 Location: SD! Posts: 521	Okay, thanks for the hints, Sam 1911. I had my "grandfather" (adopted by my mother) offer to give me some sheet metal and let me use his welder to make a trough. Brownell's is out of stock of that product, do they get it back into stock often? Is it a 3 month wait? So..... I can pick up a dowel at Wal Mart and chuck it in a lathe and attack it with some sandpaper to give it a nice taper? Does it have to be some special wood? Softwood fine? __________________ Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36 (KJV) If you take away my second amendment, you are messing with my first amendment. Not dead, just at college.

May 3, 2012, 03:20 PM	#4
Sam1911 Moderator Join Date: October 22, 2007 Location: Central PA Posts: 20,883	The instructions that come with the bottle of bluing are very good. A softer wood would probably work even better than a harder wood. "Softwood" (coniferous/evergreen tree) isn't usually used for dowels, but Poplar often is. And though it is a "hardwood" (deciduous) it is softer than some "softwoods" like Southern Yellow Pine. That's odd that it is out of stock. Probably will have it again soon. There are some other rust blues listed there (like "Belgian Blue") but I've not tried them. __________________ -- Sam "...with liberty and justice for all." (Must be 18. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states.) -D. Stanhope Sights Practical Shooters -- IDPA My Knife Showroom

May 3, 2012, 05:23 PM	#6
mbopp Member Join Date: August 10, 2009 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 760	If you make your own tank, I'm not sure but doesn't it have to be stainless steel? __________________ ”No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.” ~Thomas Jefferson

May 3, 2012, 05:18 PM	#5
BWB Member Join Date: January 14, 2008 Posts: 118	Another option is the Pilkington's solution available from Brownell's. The solution itself may or may not be better (I suspect they're all about the same), but the instruction pamphlet that comes with it is VERY detailed. It gives you guidance on polishing, degreasing, troubleshooting, water requirements, etc. If you follow the instructions, you will be able to achieve fine results the first time.

May 3, 2012, 05:57 PM	#7
Jim K Member Join Date: December 31, 2002 Posts: 13,071	The tank can be ordinary sheet iron, it doesn't have to be stainless. I recommend you make those muzzle/breech plugs so they stick out about 6 inches; that way you can use them as handles when holding the barrel and not touch the barrel. Jim

May 3, 2012, 09:36 PM	#8
Mauser lover Member Join Date: July 13, 2011 Location: SD! Posts: 521	Well, the "Belgian blue" is in stock, but that is kind of a huge container, and Pilkington's solution is out of stock. After seeing the prices on those things, I really like the first suggestion best.... Anyone know where I can get some? __________________ Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36 (KJV) If you take away my second amendment, you are messing with my first amendment. Not dead, just at college.

May 4, 2012, 04:43 AM	#9
Lucifer_Sam Member Join Date: August 1, 2011 Posts: 168	Gun goddes rust blue solution is very good, also. He also sends a really good booklet with his product. Rust bluing is really dependent on metal prep. You want to sand up to about 400 or so, and you need to get rid of any oil. That part has to be repeated, get rid of any oil whatsoever. You'll need to use gloves to prevent finger oils from messing up the process. If you're cheap like me, a puff of talcum powder in the gloves will let you reuse the same pair of disposables a few extra times. If you're using a buffer to prep be careful not to gouge out your screw holes, cartouches, engravings, ect. It depends on your humidity whether you need a cabinet or not. Unless you're somewhere really arid you should be ok, might just take a bit longer. If you use steel wool to card you need to be sure to degrease it, too. With the exception of oil contamination, its actually not all that hard, and can be a somewhat forgiving process.

May 4, 2012, 10:45 AM	#11
Mauser lover Member Join Date: July 13, 2011 Location: SD! Posts: 521	Alright, where do I get Gun Goddess rust blue? Is 600 grit sandpaper okay to use? __________________ Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36 (KJV) If you take away my second amendment, you are messing with my first amendment. Not dead, just at college.

May 4, 2012, 11:36 AM	#12
Sam1911 Moderator Join Date: October 22, 2007 Location: Central PA Posts: 20,883	600 might be a bit finer than you want. Read the instructions. __________________ -- Sam "...with liberty and justice for all." (Must be 18. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states.) -D. Stanhope Sights Practical Shooters -- IDPA My Knife Showroom

May 4, 2012, 05:18 PM	#13
TurtlePhish Member Join Date: November 25, 2011 Location: The (Un)Constitution(al) State Posts: 2,088	Laurel Mountain Forge Barrel Brown and Degreaser is also a rust blue solution, it works well and you can touch the barrel with bare hands while it's rusting. It has a detergent in the formula to cut fingerprints. Around $10 for a bottle big enough to do 2 or 3 complete guns. __________________ How can someone NOT love the smell of cosmoline? It smells like new old gun! Advocate of the Mosin-Nagant, all variants. Rest in peace, Dave.

May 4, 2012, 05:45 PM	#14
Mauser lover Member Join Date: July 13, 2011 Location: SD! Posts: 521	Okay, 400 it is. Is this the stuff? http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=1...100025_d_11270 Sorry for the long link, it seems like this is a browning, not a bluing solution. Is the only difference between the solutions the boiling part? If it will work, will it be as good of a finish? __________________ Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36 (KJV) If you take away my second amendment, you are messing with my first amendment. Not dead, just at college.

May 4, 2012, 06:45 PM	#15
TurtlePhish Member Join Date: November 25, 2011 Location: The (Un)Constitution(al) State Posts: 2,088	That's it. Their solution is good for either, it comes with instructions for both. The process is identical except for the boiling. I've seem some guns done with it and they look just as good as any other rust blue solution. I used it to brown an old pump (don't ask) and the stuff works great. I handled the barrel/receiver with my bare hands a few times to test the stuff and there were no marks. __________________ How can someone NOT love the smell of cosmoline? It smells like new old gun! Advocate of the Mosin-Nagant, all variants. Rest in peace, Dave.

May 4, 2012, 07:42 PM	#16
Mauser lover Member Join Date: July 13, 2011 Location: SD! Posts: 521	SWEET! I like the price, but more than that, IT'S IN STOCK! okay, enough excitement for one day, thanks for all of the help everyone. Oh wait, one more thing; a review on that browning stuff said that I needed a carding wheel.... is 0000 steel wool still fine? __________________ Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36 (KJV) If you take away my second amendment, you are messing with my first amendment. Not dead, just at college.

May 4, 2012, 08:20 PM	#17
TurtlePhish Member Join Date: November 25, 2011 Location: The (Un)Constitution(al) State Posts: 2,088	0000 steel wool is perfect. It'll give you a great finish, just take a little longer. __________________ How can someone NOT love the smell of cosmoline? It smells like new old gun! Advocate of the Mosin-Nagant, all variants. Rest in peace, Dave.

May 5, 2012, 01:31 PM	#19
lathedog Member Join Date: August 28, 2006 Posts: 220	I've actually rust blued stuff before. You need a humidity cabinet. Wood is preferred. You need something to make it humid in there, like a hotplate with a bowl of water. If it gets too humid, and condensation forms, you will ruin the job. You want to not start a fire, so be careful with your heat source. You need boiling water to neutralize the reaction. This does not require a stainless tank, or titanium, or anything like that. Pouring boiling water over the work would work in theory. Anything that can stand boiling water and hold your work is probably fine. Change the water (when it cools down) after every couple of uses. If you plug the barrel, and the plugs blow out when you boil the barrel, hot boiling water will blow all over you. Its up to you, but I prefer not to be spashed with lots of boiling water. The rust blue solution will not get into the bore unless you put it there. You want to watch your metal prep as the solution does not take well to highly polished surfaces. Think 320 grit as a maximum. 220 grit is good enough so long as it is even. Media blast is best. Your skin oil will ruin the process. Wear nitrile gloves, then wash your hands with gloves on to remove any oil from the gloves. Soak your steel wool in acetone to remove the oil that comes on the steel wool. I cannot overstress the importance of careful decontamination of any grease or oil. Wire wheel or steel wool the oxide off ("carding") with just enough pressure to remove the crumbly stuff. Dont get overeager and buff off your actual bluing. I use steel wool that is still damp from an acetone dip. Oil when complete and enjoy.

May 8, 2012, 07:02 PM	#20
buckbrush Member Join Date: May 24, 2007 Posts: 30	I use PVC pipes for pouring boiling water into.

May 8, 2012, 11:03 PM	#21
Mauser lover Member Join Date: July 13, 2011 Location: SD! Posts: 521	Too late buckbrush, I already have a trough thingy to boil it in :P Lathedog, would it be alright if I just hung it over a pot that was being warmed on the stove? Meaning the stove is on the lowest setting, and the barrel is suspended above it, with no cabinet or anything? __________________ Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36 (KJV) If you take away my second amendment, you are messing with my first amendment. Not dead, just at college.

May 9, 2012, 08:36 AM	#23
Sam1911 Moderator Join Date: October 22, 2007 Location: Central PA Posts: 20,883	Yes, turtlephish is correct -- if you get condensation, that's not good. However, if you don't, it's about perfect. Your parts may rust fine in the open air. __________________ -- Sam "...with liberty and justice for all." (Must be 18. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states.) -D. Stanhope Sights Practical Shooters -- IDPA My Knife Showroom

May 9, 2012, 10:25 AM	#24
JimfromTrafalgar Member Join Date: April 2, 2012 Location: Trafalgar,IN. Posts: 29	The Laurel Mt. product works very well but is a bit on the aggressive side. Since you're not using a chamber, this will be less of an issue, but apply in a very thin coat. Also, as you near the desired color, it's often better to dilute the agent with distilled water. This will rust a bit slower, but will also give a finer grain to the finish. BTW, a simple rusting cabinet can be built very simply and inexpensively. A shelf down low, cut out to hold a steel bowl of water, with a light bulb below the bowl, will give you some extra heat and humidity without causing condensation. According to Angiers, and based upon what I've found via experience, heat is fairly critical in getting an even rust. I've found optimum temps to be 85-90 deg. F, which is exactly what Angiers had to say on the subject. Anything above normal 70 deg. or so room temp helps however. Too hot and you get a VERY AGGRESSIVE rust. With the simple cabinet I've desribed, using a 100 watt bulb, and that will not be an issue. I could probably ramble on endlessly, but I'll stop here, unless you have further questions. Luck, Jim

May 9, 2012, 11:07 AM	#25
Mauser lover Member Join Date: July 13, 2011 Location: SD! Posts: 521	I don't think that having a pot of water on the stove is going to be a problem with condensation, I don't want to boil the water, and having the stove under the barrel will give it some heat, hopefully the right amount. Right? I don't live in an extremely dry climate, but I don't live in Missouri either... Hope it works. JimfromTrafalgar, no, please ramble on indefinitely! I need all the help I can get. How long should I boil it after I let it rust? __________________ Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36 (KJV) If you take away my second amendment, you are messing with my first amendment. Not dead, just at college.