Slow rust bluing - Page 3

Mauser lover · May 19, 2012, 11:13 PM

IT WORKED!!!
Anyway, thanks all of you for your input, the bluing turned out great, as far as I am concerned, you can still kind of tell that there was some minor pitting, but not without looking very intently at the exact spot.

TurtlePhish · May 20, 2012, 09:59 AM

Beautiful!

**Sam1911** · May 20, 2012, 10:16 AM

Pretty awesome results! Congratulations!

Mauser lover · May 20, 2012, 06:03 PM

Thank you!

7mmstalker · May 26, 2012, 07:28 AM

After many typical poor experiences with cold blue, reading this thread gave me the inspiration to learn something new. We have a few projects that are best suited for "student" work.
A couple of older - but not collectible- 22 rifles, and I recently found a FN made Mod. 98. The Mauser is in pretty bad shape, no 2 parts have matching serial #s, and some previous owner was fond of using a hammer to punish the bottom metal for some imaginary sin. ???? Anything I do to this rifle will help it survive and function as it should.
Found a bottle of Brownell's Belgian Rust Bluing solution, took off the magazine floorplate for a test piece, used 220 grit, got most of the ugly off of it, cleaned /degreased, boiled and swabbed it 5 or 6 times and WOW. I am hooked!
Working on setting up a boiling tank big enough to fit a barreled action.
Would it be wise to re-finish the barrel separate from the receiver?
A new barrel will be fitted regardless, so should I index mark it after setting headspace, unscrew and reassemble after bluing?
I'm concerned about lube from the threads muffing up the process, or corrosion/galling if assembled without a bit of something on those threads.

Lucifer_Sam · May 27, 2012, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7mmstalker

After many typical poor experiences with cold blue, reading this thread gave me the inspiration to learn something new. We have a few projects that are best suited for "student" work.
A couple of older - but not collectible- 22 rifles, and I recently found a FN made Mod. 98. The Mauser is in pretty bad shape, no 2 parts have matching serial #s, and some previous owner was fond of using a hammer to punish the bottom metal for some imaginary sin. ???? Anything I do to this rifle will help it survive and function as it should.
Found a bottle of Brownell's Belgian Rust Bluing solution, took off the magazine floorplate for a test piece, used 220 grit, got most of the ugly off of it, cleaned /degreased, boiled and swabbed it 5 or 6 times and WOW. I am hooked!
Working on setting up a boiling tank big enough to fit a barreled action.
Would it be wise to re-finish the barrel separate from the receiver?
A new barrel will be fitted regardless, so should I index mark it after setting headspace, unscrew and reassemble after bluing?
I'm concerned about lube from the threads muffing up the process, or corrosion/galling if assembled without a bit of something on those threads.

You can rust blue complete assemblys fine. I'm not sure what you're saying about the barrel-if you are going to blue the one thats on the receiver for practice, or if you're saying you're just going to rust blue the receiver and ignore the current barrel since it will be replaced. Either way, I'd just do what seemed easier. You will need to get all the oil out of the threads. If you're concerned about a certain area being exposed to the solution and the water you can lacquer it.

Mauser lover · May 29, 2012, 12:15 AM

I would take it apart to blue it since you are going to anyway. I don't really know that much about headspacing, so I won't comment on that. I wouldn't worry too much about the receiver threads, but make sure that you card off all of the loose rust in them. If you take the barrel off, you won't need a big tank for boiling, you can use a smaller, normal sized pot.

Let us know how your project turns out, post pictures if possible.

Wachtelhund · May 30, 2012, 12:24 AM

Great thread and posts. I've wanted to try slow rust blueing for sometime. One question? What about inside of the receivers like a bolt action. I assume this isn't coated with the compound and does not rust. Is this correct.

Mauser lover · May 30, 2012, 09:31 AM

Larry Potterfield uses a swab to apply the solution to the inside of the receiver.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPD3GWqk-yE

hartek451 · August 15, 2012, 04:59 PM

Hi.. hope someone is still watching this thread...
I have a number of muzzleloaders that I want to reblue.. they were originally just quick cold blued, and have always looked bad... functional, but ugly.
I am going to spend this fall slow rust blueing the lot. but I have a few questions. Some have been touched on before, but with varied answers.
First, interior of barrel. Plug or no? of course the entire thing would be degreased, so no oil on the inside. My thoughts are, if no rusting solution gets inside, and it is dried quickly after coming out of the boil, it should not adversely effect the areas not being rust blued. ?
Also, I don't want to have to pull the breach plugs, so I will have to take extra care about rust creeping into those threads..
speaking of threads, what about the nipple threads? should those be protected somehow. I will be doing a c&b revolver as well, with lots of thead holes, etc..
Then there are the parts that are attached that I don't want to rust, like the barrel pins and pressed in brass sight (like front site on the revolver). Someone mentioned lacquer? what kind, etc? wouldn't the laquer remover, when finished, mess with the rust blue?

I will be using brownells slow rust solution, and be welding up a few tanks and making a couple of simple pipe burners.

anyway, hope someone wants to chime in on these questions..

thanks...

Lucifer_Sam · August 15, 2012, 11:54 PM

I cant remember what type of lacquer specifically. I'd have to dig around, I havent done it in a while. Wasn't shellac. I used a lacquer and plugged the bore, but I put a very small amount of solution in the water, and don't change it. You can use nail polish on the smaller parts. Be sure to use a thick coat and check it, it can flake off. Acetone removes most lacquers and wont damage the bluing.

Mauser lover · August 16, 2012, 12:10 AM

No short cuts. At all. Pull that breech plug, and anything else that you don't want blued. Lacquer remover will not typically hurt rust, which is all bluing is.

Pipe burners.... you can make your own, or just go down to your nearest BBQ supply place (hardware store, Home Depot etc.) and get the long skinny ones...

What I did was boil the barrel with a cleaning rod through the bore, with a wire on the cleaning rod hooked over the edge of the trough. After I boiled it long enough, I took the barrel out, with welding gloves, and took the cleaning rod out, and just blew through the bore to get all of the water vapor out. What I didn't do, but should have done, is take a can of aerosol oil and just hose out the bore after boiling. I degreased with acetone every time right before I applied the acid anyway. After I blew out the bore, I scrubbed off the velvet, then degreased with brake cleaner and acetone. Then I applied the acid and just waited. Then repeated several times.

You should only put enough of the bluing solution on the rag/swab to get it damp. No drips. Because it doesn't drip, you won't have a problem with it getting into threads at all, and if it does get into some threads, it will not be a problem getting the parts screwed back in there, because you shouldn't be leaving it on long enough to pit it anyway.

Scimmia · August 17, 2012, 12:00 PM

I coat the bore with shellac. Comes right off later with denatured alcohol.

7mmstalker · April 8, 2013, 03:56 AM

Bringing this old thread back to life, and an old rifle as well.
First two pics show the "good"- FN receiver, bolt turned down, scope base holes drilled and tapped.
And then the "bad"-magazine beat on w/hammer or?, bolt shroud lock missing, safety lever shortened poorly, and some other stuff.
Kinda hard to explain all of it, I'm going to skip the "ugly" parts.
Really not too bad for a surplus 98 made 60 years ago.
Got a short chambered 338-06 barrel- existing tube was 30-06, should feed cartridges just fine. Starting the overhaul on the mag; bolt will likely just get a good polishing, trigger upgrade parts on hand; receiver will need a bit of surface pitting buffed out and then my first "total" bluing job.
'Been setting up a couple of dual wheel buffers, and horsetrading for above mentioned parts.
Refinishing the mag. floor plate by hand last year reminded me of the value of a powered buff/ polish set-up!!
Progress is slow, I'll post pics as things get going.
There are some really great guys on this forum, any and all comments are welcome.

Mauser lover · April 8, 2013, 06:31 PM

Looks promising. Are you going to re-stock and do a full sporterization job, or leave the military stock on it?

Interesting choice for calibers. I didn't think .338-06 was ever going to come back!

7mmstalker · April 9, 2013, 02:10 AM

The stock choices are so many for the '98. I've got a very plain black composite, equally plain Bishop walnut, and a couple of "GI" stocks that would fit to be able to shoot it. Boyds has a couple of laminated wood stocks that might look good, and add some weight to soften recoil.
Best option might be to wait and see what the barreled action looks like when finished.

The 338-06 has been a long-time wish list caliber.
I had a 338 Win Mag some time ago, but couldn't get a really accurate load worked up for it. My hunting partner had a nearly identical 338 and it could make nice 3-shot cloverleafs. Traded mine away shortly after leaving AK for WA state.
There isn't much game in WA that requires that much power. Still have a lot of 338 bullets, that gives me an excuse to build this rifle, to use up the bullets!

Spent some time draw-filing the magazine and smoothing the shape of the triggerguard a bit.

Mauser lover · April 11, 2013, 08:34 PM

Looks much better!

Do be sure to show us pics at several stages of the rebuild!

Jim K · April 12, 2013, 10:19 PM

If you want to see good rust bluing, look at any Luger pistol or Mauser rifle made before about 1935.

Jim

7mmstalker · April 13, 2013, 07:24 AM

The light from the camera's flash revealed a rusty color on the floor plate.
Wondering if a finer grit final polish would eliminate that? That piece was my first use of the Brownell's Belgian rust blue. Others have recommended leaving the surface less than shiny- 220-320 max- to help the bluing reaction "penetrate" the surface.
Having no previous experience, a finer,-320 finish will be tried for the magazine/triggerguard.
If the brown color is lessened using a different technique, the floor plate would be the easiest part to re-finish!
Given this rifle's condition, and mix / match of parts, I'm not attempting a "restoration" and must have a flexible standard for appearance.

Jim K · April 13, 2013, 02:36 PM

One characteristic of rust blue is that in some kinds of light the finish will look brown and rusty. If it looks blue in normal, natural light, it is OK.

A man I know has a beautiful collection of German handguns, including Borchardts, Mausers and Lugers. One day the lights were off in his gun room for some reason, so he looked in his safe using a halogen bulb flashlight - and just about had a heart attack! His whole collection was a mass of rust!!

Well, no. Under normal lighting, the beautiful rust blue was back. The rust was a trick of the light.

Jim

Sun Tzu warrior · April 15, 2013, 10:06 PM

What a wonderful thread!
I have an ole shotgun that my father bought new.
he sold it to my brother in law, due to a hunting accident involving his son, he abandoned it. I asked to adopt it and when it was given up for adoption, it was full of rust, surface rust. I carded the rust off, and a few times, rainy hunting trips, rusted it again. Again I just carded off the rust after these incidences. Now the Shotgun has a very nice brown finish, which hasn't rusted for a long time. My questions are, what would you call this type of blueing, and why it is now (seemingly) impervious to rust? I have looked into plum blueing and though it may be similar, I don't think it is the same. An old man once told me that he had seen that finish on firearms many times. He said it was rust blueing done with a trough full of horse urine.
Anybody heard of this? Will try to post pics when the other half returns home from a trip, (she took the camera)
If this matters, the shotgun is a Mossberg model 500 bought new in 1971

Mauser lover · April 16, 2013, 01:08 PM

That is the same as rust bluing, but without boiling it.

When you let it rust to blue it, you boil it before you card off the velvet. This boiling converts the brown rust, or red ferric oxide to blue rust, or black ferric oxide. After conversion you card off the (now black) rust, and you get a rust blue.

Browning was very popular a long time ago, probably because it is so easy to get a good finish, that is rust resistant.

7mmstalker · April 21, 2013, 10:29 PM

Stripped the bolt, it and the magazine got cleaned up with 120 grit on the buffer, thinking of leaving the bolt unfinished. The mag. will get some rust blue.

Mauser lover · April 23, 2013, 09:36 PM

If you are going to leave it bright, why don't you you polish it to 400-600 or something like that? It should rust less if you polish it finer. Anyway, nice and shiny now! Looking forward to more pictures!

7mmstalker · May 15, 2013, 04:16 AM

Great idea, but as the finish was getting finer, the pitting became more obvious. The pics don't really show it as much as the eye can see it. There is quite alot around the locking lugs and at the rear. Removing all of it would require some aggressive polishing , not willing to go that far.
The extractor was mirror brite, and, along with the bolt and magazine is rusting at this moment. The bolt and magazine are taking the chemical well, not so much on the extractor. The polishing and different steel seem to nearly reject this bluing solution!
Will be adding photos soon!

May 19, 2012, 11:13 PM	#51
Mauser lover Member Join Date: July 13, 2011 Location: SD! Posts: 521	IT WORKED!!! Anyway, thanks all of you for your input, the bluing turned out great, as far as I am concerned, you can still kind of tell that there was some minor pitting, but not without looking very intently at the exact spot. __________________ Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36 (KJV) If you take away my second amendment, you are messing with my first amendment. Not dead, just at college.

May 20, 2012, 09:59 AM	#52
TurtlePhish Member Join Date: November 25, 2011 Location: The (Un)Constitution(al) State Posts: 2,092	Beautiful! __________________ How can someone NOT love the smell of cosmoline? It smells like new old gun! Advocate of the Mosin-Nagant, all variants. Rest in peace, Dave.

May 20, 2012, 10:16 AM	#53
Sam1911 Moderator Join Date: October 22, 2007 Location: Central PA Posts: 20,932	Pretty awesome results! Congratulations! __________________ -- Sam "...with liberty and justice for all." (Must be 18. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states.) -D. Stanhope Sights Practical Shooters -- IDPA My Knife Showroom

May 20, 2012, 06:03 PM	#54
Mauser lover Member Join Date: July 13, 2011 Location: SD! Posts: 521	Thank you! __________________ Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36 (KJV) If you take away my second amendment, you are messing with my first amendment. Not dead, just at college.

May 26, 2012, 07:28 AM	#55
7mmstalker Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: Washington State Posts: 122	After many typical poor experiences with cold blue, reading this thread gave me the inspiration to learn something new. We have a few projects that are best suited for "student" work. A couple of older - but not collectible- 22 rifles, and I recently found a FN made Mod. 98. The Mauser is in pretty bad shape, no 2 parts have matching serial #s, and some previous owner was fond of using a hammer to punish the bottom metal for some imaginary sin. ???? Anything I do to this rifle will help it survive and function as it should. Found a bottle of Brownell's Belgian Rust Bluing solution, took off the magazine floorplate for a test piece, used 220 grit, got most of the ugly off of it, cleaned /degreased, boiled and swabbed it 5 or 6 times and WOW. I am hooked! Working on setting up a boiling tank big enough to fit a barreled action. Would it be wise to re-finish the barrel separate from the receiver? A new barrel will be fitted regardless, so should I index mark it after setting headspace, unscrew and reassemble after bluing? I'm concerned about lube from the threads muffing up the process, or corrosion/galling if assembled without a bit of something on those threads. __________________ common sense gun control- a steady hand and a sharp eye

May 29, 2012, 12:15 AM	#57
Mauser lover Member Join Date: July 13, 2011 Location: SD! Posts: 521	I would take it apart to blue it since you are going to anyway. I don't really know that much about headspacing, so I won't comment on that. I wouldn't worry too much about the receiver threads, but make sure that you card off all of the loose rust in them. If you take the barrel off, you won't need a big tank for boiling, you can use a smaller, normal sized pot. Let us know how your project turns out, post pictures if possible. __________________ Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36 (KJV) If you take away my second amendment, you are messing with my first amendment. Not dead, just at college.

May 30, 2012, 12:24 AM	#58
Wachtelhund Member Join Date: May 23, 2009 Location: Rhinelander, WI Posts: 48	Great thread and posts. I've wanted to try slow rust blueing for sometime. One question? What about inside of the receivers like a bolt action. I assume this isn't coated with the compound and does not rust. Is this correct.

May 30, 2012, 09:31 AM	#59
Mauser lover Member Join Date: July 13, 2011 Location: SD! Posts: 521	Larry Potterfield uses a swab to apply the solution to the inside of the receiver. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPD3GWqk-yE __________________ Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36 (KJV) If you take away my second amendment, you are messing with my first amendment. Not dead, just at college.

August 15, 2012, 04:59 PM	#60
hartek451 Member Join Date: November 7, 2007 Location: SF Bay, California Posts: 10	Hi.. hope someone is still watching this thread... I have a number of muzzleloaders that I want to reblue.. they were originally just quick cold blued, and have always looked bad... functional, but ugly. I am going to spend this fall slow rust blueing the lot. but I have a few questions. Some have been touched on before, but with varied answers. First, interior of barrel. Plug or no? of course the entire thing would be degreased, so no oil on the inside. My thoughts are, if no rusting solution gets inside, and it is dried quickly after coming out of the boil, it should not adversely effect the areas not being rust blued. ? Also, I don't want to have to pull the breach plugs, so I will have to take extra care about rust creeping into those threads.. speaking of threads, what about the nipple threads? should those be protected somehow. I will be doing a c&b revolver as well, with lots of thead holes, etc.. Then there are the parts that are attached that I don't want to rust, like the barrel pins and pressed in brass sight (like front site on the revolver). Someone mentioned lacquer? what kind, etc? wouldn't the laquer remover, when finished, mess with the rust blue? I will be using brownells slow rust solution, and be welding up a few tanks and making a couple of simple pipe burners. anyway, hope someone wants to chime in on these questions.. thanks...

August 15, 2012, 11:54 PM	#61
Lucifer_Sam Member Join Date: August 1, 2011 Posts: 168	I cant remember what type of lacquer specifically. I'd have to dig around, I havent done it in a while. Wasn't shellac. I used a lacquer and plugged the bore, but I put a very small amount of solution in the water, and don't change it. You can use nail polish on the smaller parts. Be sure to use a thick coat and check it, it can flake off. Acetone removes most lacquers and wont damage the bluing.

August 16, 2012, 12:10 AM	#62
Mauser lover Member Join Date: July 13, 2011 Location: SD! Posts: 521	No short cuts. At all. Pull that breech plug, and anything else that you don't want blued. Lacquer remover will not typically hurt rust, which is all bluing is. Pipe burners.... you can make your own, or just go down to your nearest BBQ supply place (hardware store, Home Depot etc.) and get the long skinny ones... What I did was boil the barrel with a cleaning rod through the bore, with a wire on the cleaning rod hooked over the edge of the trough. After I boiled it long enough, I took the barrel out, with welding gloves, and took the cleaning rod out, and just blew through the bore to get all of the water vapor out. What I didn't do, but should have done, is take a can of aerosol oil and just hose out the bore after boiling. I degreased with acetone every time right before I applied the acid anyway. After I blew out the bore, I scrubbed off the velvet, then degreased with brake cleaner and acetone. Then I applied the acid and just waited. Then repeated several times. You should only put enough of the bluing solution on the rag/swab to get it damp. No drips. Because it doesn't drip, you won't have a problem with it getting into threads at all, and if it does get into some threads, it will not be a problem getting the parts screwed back in there, because you shouldn't be leaving it on long enough to pit it anyway. __________________ Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36 (KJV) If you take away my second amendment, you are messing with my first amendment. Not dead, just at college.

August 17, 2012, 12:00 PM	#63
Scimmia Member Join Date: May 5, 2011 Location: Eastern IA Posts: 494	I coat the bore with shellac. Comes right off later with denatured alcohol.

April 8, 2013, 06:31 PM	#65
Mauser lover Member Join Date: July 13, 2011 Location: SD! Posts: 521	Looks promising. Are you going to re-stock and do a full sporterization job, or leave the military stock on it? Interesting choice for calibers. I didn't think .338-06 was ever going to come back! __________________ Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36 (KJV) If you take away my second amendment, you are messing with my first amendment. Not dead, just at college.

April 11, 2013, 08:34 PM	#67
Mauser lover Member Join Date: July 13, 2011 Location: SD! Posts: 521	Looks much better! Do be sure to show us pics at several stages of the rebuild! __________________ Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36 (KJV) If you take away my second amendment, you are messing with my first amendment. Not dead, just at college.

April 12, 2013, 10:19 PM	#68
Jim K Member Join Date: December 31, 2002 Posts: 13,092	If you want to see good rust bluing, look at any Luger pistol or Mauser rifle made before about 1935. Jim

April 13, 2013, 07:24 AM	#69
7mmstalker Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: Washington State Posts: 122	The light from the camera's flash revealed a rusty color on the floor plate. Wondering if a finer grit final polish would eliminate that? That piece was my first use of the Brownell's Belgian rust blue. Others have recommended leaving the surface less than shiny- 220-320 max- to help the bluing reaction "penetrate" the surface. Having no previous experience, a finer,-320 finish will be tried for the magazine/triggerguard. If the brown color is lessened using a different technique, the floor plate would be the easiest part to re-finish! Given this rifle's condition, and mix / match of parts, I'm not attempting a "restoration" and must have a flexible standard for appearance. __________________ common sense gun control- a steady hand and a sharp eye Last edited by 7mmstalker; April 13, 2013 at 07:33 AM.

April 13, 2013, 02:36 PM	#70
Jim K Member Join Date: December 31, 2002 Posts: 13,092	One characteristic of rust blue is that in some kinds of light the finish will look brown and rusty. If it looks blue in normal, natural light, it is OK. A man I know has a beautiful collection of German handguns, including Borchardts, Mausers and Lugers. One day the lights were off in his gun room for some reason, so he looked in his safe using a halogen bulb flashlight - and just about had a heart attack! His whole collection was a mass of rust!! Well, no. Under normal lighting, the beautiful rust blue was back. The rust was a trick of the light. Jim

April 15, 2013, 10:06 PM	#71
Sun Tzu warrior Member Join Date: June 24, 2012 Posts: 112	What a wonderful thread! I have an ole shotgun that my father bought new. he sold it to my brother in law, due to a hunting accident involving his son, he abandoned it. I asked to adopt it and when it was given up for adoption, it was full of rust, surface rust. I carded the rust off, and a few times, rainy hunting trips, rusted it again. Again I just carded off the rust after these incidences. Now the Shotgun has a very nice brown finish, which hasn't rusted for a long time. My questions are, what would you call this type of blueing, and why it is now (seemingly) impervious to rust? I have looked into plum blueing and though it may be similar, I don't think it is the same. An old man once told me that he had seen that finish on firearms many times. He said it was rust blueing done with a trough full of horse urine. Anybody heard of this? Will try to post pics when the other half returns home from a trip, (she took the camera) If this matters, the shotgun is a Mossberg model 500 bought new in 1971

April 16, 2013, 01:08 PM	#72
Mauser lover Member Join Date: July 13, 2011 Location: SD! Posts: 521	That is the same as rust bluing, but without boiling it. When you let it rust to blue it, you boil it before you card off the velvet. This boiling converts the brown rust, or red ferric oxide to blue rust, or black ferric oxide. After conversion you card off the (now black) rust, and you get a rust blue. Browning was very popular a long time ago, probably because it is so easy to get a good finish, that is rust resistant. __________________ Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36 (KJV) If you take away my second amendment, you are messing with my first amendment. Not dead, just at college.

April 23, 2013, 09:36 PM	#74
Mauser lover Member Join Date: July 13, 2011 Location: SD! Posts: 521	If you are going to leave it bright, why don't you you polish it to 400-600 or something like that? It should rust less if you polish it finer. Anyway, nice and shiny now! Looking forward to more pictures! __________________ Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36 (KJV) If you take away my second amendment, you are messing with my first amendment. Not dead, just at college.