Why Arent 9mm Revolvers More Popular? - Page 4

golden · October 14, 2012, 04:35 PM

Weblance,

The reason that 9m.m. revolvers are not popular is because they are revolvers! Semi-automatic pistols have displaced revolvers in most roles. They are still competitive as pocket pistols and snubnose revolvers and in the large hunting handgun market.

It just is hard to imagine why I would carry a S&W 547(a terrific revolver by the way) instead of a GLOCK19, SIG-225 WALTHER P-99. I pick these guns because they are all similir in size and weight to the 547.
I would rather have the 15 rouind magazine of the GLOCK or WATHER anytime over the 6 rounds in the 547. Even the small SIG 225 has an 8 round magazine.

If forced to carry a revolver for anything but off duty use, I would go with the 547 and +P ammo. The 4 inch heavy barrel combined with MAGNA-PORTS makes it a fast and accurate shooter.

Jim

weblance · October 16, 2012, 09:16 PM

Jim... not everyone has given up on revolvers. If I was going to war, or was Law Enforcement, I would carry an autoloader, but for every day carry, I carry a 5 shot snub, and so do alot of people. This isnt a discussion of revolver vs autoloaders, Its a discussion of 9mm revolvers vs other revolvers. I guess I didnt make that clear at the beginning, but that was my intent.

jc57 · October 16, 2012, 10:50 PM

The reason for poor sales is that perhaps for the vast majority of the gun-owning public, many of whom do not frequent internet gun forums, the belief is that .38+P is more powerful than 9mm.

I remember in the early 90s when police departments, including the one I worked for, switched from 38+P 125gr SJHP to 9mm shooting 115gr bullets with rather less reliably expanding JHPs, that we felt like we were trading down in power for an increase in capacity.

Nowadays with 9mm +P and improved bullet design it's the other way around most of the time, but many shooters formed their opinions a while ago and some of those beliefs are passed on in the oral traditions in families and communities.

Also some people look at the size of the cartridge and just assume that the .38 must shoot "harder" than that little bitty 9mm.

The gun buying world isn't made of up solely of the most educated and rational people in the world. Just ask any gun shop employee, I'm sure they have a million stories they could tell you.

silvermane_1 · October 17, 2012, 05:56 AM

there is a simple solution to the 9mm wheelgun question, it's called someone inventing the 9mm luger auto rim, and if it is already out there someome needs to bring it back to fore front.

**Brian Williams** · October 17, 2012, 06:33 AM

The biggest hassle with 9mm revolvers is the quality of the moonclips. There just is not enough space to get enough material to make good moonclips that hold the rounds very well. I like to use the Ruger moonclips in my 940 cylindered 642. The 40/10mm and the 45acp moonclips have much more space to provide enough material to make a good moonclip that is sturdy enough to hold the rounds and still has enough space to flex for the installation and removal of the cartridges or empty cases.
The concept of a 9mm revolver is a great one and makes for fast unloads and reloads. I really would love to have a 13 that was factory chambered in 9mm and cut for moonclips.

HiCap1 · October 17, 2012, 04:39 PM

Silvermane 1, Federal made just what you are suggesting, the Federal 9mm. I have two boxes of it, and when I pick up my new Taurus 905 next week, I'll try a few. The round may fit into an HKS model 36 or 36A speed loader, and if so, Bob's your uncle.

HiCap

CraigC · October 17, 2012, 06:11 PM

Quote:

People dont want them, and if they DO want them, every time they are released they dont buy them.

Exactly!

Personally, I don't want a DA chambered in a rimless cartridge. I wouldn't mind a .45ACP but I'd use Autorim cases. I'm wondering what trick everyone saying "moon clips are no big deal" has figured out because my brain tells me that it adds one more step to the loading process. An unnecessary one at that. Whether your clips are cooperative or not. Yes, you can reload your sixgun faster but that's only AFTER the clips are loaded and last I checked, they don't load themselves. A .38Spl serves the same purpose, has a rim and is quite easy to reload for. Sorry, I don't see the point.

weblance · October 17, 2012, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Personally, I don't want a DA chambered in a rimless cartridge. I wouldn't mind a .45ACP but I'd use Autorim cases. I'm wondering what trick everyone saying "moon clips are no big deal" has figured out because my brain tells me that it adds one more step to the loading process. An unnecessary one at that. Whether your clips are cooperative or not. Yes, you can reload your sixgun faster but that's only AFTER the clips are loaded and last I checked, they don't load themselves. A .38Spl serves the same purpose, has a rim and is quite easy to reload for. Sorry, I don't see the point.

The Taurus 905 doesnt need the moon clips to operate. They aid in extraction. When firing my 905, I have not used the moon clips for the last 300 or so rounds. Simply tipping the revolver skyward causes the empty cases to fall out. If one or two dont drop, lightly tapping the grip on something will make them drop. So your complaint about using moon clips doesnt apply here, Instead of loading a moon clip, which apparently is too demanding for some, its even easier to unload the 905, compared to any other rimmed revolver, because you dont have to push the extractor.

TennJed · October 17, 2012, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weblance

The Taurus 905 doesnt need the moon clips to operate. They aid in extraction. When firing my 905, I have not used the moon clips for the last 300 or so rounds. Simply tipping the revolver skyward causes the empty cases to fall out. If one or two dont drop, lightly tapping the grip on something will make them drop. So your complaint about using moon clips doesnt apply here, Instead of loading a moon clip, which apparently is too demanding for some, its even easier to unload the 905, compared to any other rimmed revolver, because you dont have to push the extractor.

Well lightly tapping the revolver doesn't seem easier than pushing the extractor

PabloJ · October 17, 2012, 10:55 PM

Not that long ago a fella offered me the best of this type S&W K-frame 4" rb for very reasonable price of $650 (only several tho were made and the gun did not have mark on it). He asked why I turned him down. I said it's not you or the gun, but I already own a Glock pistol.

silvermane_1 · October 17, 2012, 11:35 PM

HiCap1, could post some info on the Federal 9mm you mention?, im interested in the rimmed 9mm myself, thanks.

Remllez · October 18, 2012, 09:06 AM

If ya gotta ask, you'll never understand....it ain't rocket science, it doesnt have to have a point. it's simply another choice offered to shooters who have the ability to accept different things for what they are. Some people get their undergarments all in a bunch over Moon Clips....really?

BigG · October 18, 2012, 09:28 AM

S&W 940 is a nice, quality revolver.

CraigC · October 18, 2012, 11:53 AM

Quote:

The Taurus 905 doesnt need the moon clips to operate.

Neither does anything chambered in .38Spl. Sorry but I wouldn't take a free Taurus.

Quote:

Some people get their undergarments all in a bunch over Moon Clips....really?

My drawers ain't bunched up at all. I just ain't playin' that game. I'll leave it to those enamored with the silly things. He asked "why aren't 9mm revolvers more popular?" and he got his answers. No need to get hostile towards those who don't see the point.

weblance · October 18, 2012, 01:03 PM

Ok... well I have my answers now. Some people will never embrace a new idea, and are so narrow minded that they will push against anything they dont understand with every ounce of energy they have. If you guys want to keep shooting your .38s and spending your money on a weaker, more expensive round, simply because most people are shooting a .38 revolver, then thats just fine with me. I feel I have found something that is really worth telling people about, but not many are listening. I will continue to shoot my revolver, enjoying its cheap ammo, getting more snub nose practice, and smiling all the while.

2zulu1 · October 18, 2012, 01:35 PM

Why limit the potential of a wheelgun with 9mm? Using the Starline website as an example, 357mag brass costs the same as 9mm +P, also, as a handloader, I'd feel more comfortable on the trail with a 38 Special/170gr Keith bullet than anything in 9mm.

As others have stated, when 9mm wheelguns were offered commercially, buyers weren't impressed. Even the 10mm is not popular compared to other wheelgun calibers, including the 38 Special.

CraigC · October 18, 2012, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Some people will never embrace a new idea, and are so narrow minded that they will push against anything they don't understand with every ounce of energy they have.

You can peddle that crap somewhere else. 'Some' of us have been doing this for a long time, have a lot invested and might have figured out a few things. We don't take condescension particularly well. If I wanted to shoot a 35,000psi cartridge out of a small frame revolver, I'd step right past the puny 9mm and pick up a .357.

I also wouldn't call a moon-clipped, rimless auto cartridge in a revolver a "new idea". As I do seem to recall the sixguns of WWI.

You'll get more practice when you step up to the next level and start handloading.

45_auto · October 18, 2012, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Why Arent 9mm Revolvers More Popular?

Same reason most military and law enforcement don't use them:

something like a Glock 26 is the same size and holds more than twice as much of the exact same ammo.

As a range toy or less-than-optimal carry gun it's fine, but most people aren't shooters and will buy only one gun for self-defense. Given the choice between 5 or 11 rounds in a self-defense weapon, the vast majority will choose 11.

If you're just looking for a small revolver with versatility, a .357 mag is the obvious choice. It's the same size. Even if you don't reload, there is a vast variety of ammo available for it (from light .38 wadcutters to heavy .357 loads) that is not available in 9mm. Ergo, 9mm revolvers don't sell well.

56hawk · October 18, 2012, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weblance

Ok... well I have my answers now. Some people will never embrace a new idea, and are so narrow minded that they will push against anything they dont understand with every ounce of energy they have.

I think this can be summed up with one question. What can a 9mm revolver do that a 357 can't? The only answer is; shoot 9mm ammo.

So the benefit of a 9mm revolver is that you can currently find 9mm ammo that is cheaper than 38 special ammo (Reloading eliminates this price difference). The downsides are that you usually have to use clips (some 357s are also setup for clips), and some ammo will jam the gun due to the tapered case of the 9mm.

2zulu1 · October 18, 2012, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weblance

Ok... well I have my answers now. Some people will never embrace a new idea, and are so narrow minded that they will push against anything they dont understand with every ounce of energy they have. If you guys want to keep shooting your .38s and spending your money on a weaker, more expensive round, simply because most people are shooting a .38 revolver, then thats just fine with me. I feel I have found something that is really worth telling people about, but not many are listening. I will continue to shoot my revolver, enjoying its cheap ammo, getting more snub nose practice, and smiling all the while.

New idea??? I can remember Ruger selling 9mm cylinders for Blackhawks decades ago.

As far as new ideas go, why aren't you carrying a 327 Fed Mag in a snub wheelgun?

tekarra · October 18, 2012, 08:57 PM

The Taurus 905 does not need moon clips to shoot the 9 mm cartridge, but you have to pluck them out with your fingernail or tap them out from the front of the cylinder. This can be annoying.

One thing the moon clip does is prevent set back of the cartridge case against recoil shield during firing. The 9 mm is a tapered case and can set back upon firing. For this reason, S&W added the limit pin to the 547.

R.W.Dale · October 20, 2012, 11:51 AM

By in large with a 905 Taurus and even a 30-30 BFR Ive found that case setback is an entirely overblown non issue.

The only time it occurs is with oily chambers. With a properly cared for revolver it simply doesn't happen

posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complaints about

HiCap1 · October 20, 2012, 03:28 PM

Silvermane 1, the box of rimmed 9mm cartridges is marked as follows: "9mm FEDERAL, 115 jacketed hollow point bullet, no. 9F A, For use in revolvers only". I was given the two boxes ten or so years aho. I have tried them in the HKS speedloader no. 36 for J frames and Tauri small frames (.38 and .357). I will see if it works with the Taurus 905 on Monday. These loads in the speedloader makes a neat package.

HiCap

C0untZer0 · October 20, 2012, 11:05 PM

The Charter Arms 9mm Federal come up for sale every so often on Gun Auction.

To me the 9mm fed defeats at least some of the purpose of having a 9mm revolver. If I'm going to get an entirely different cartridge from what my semi-autos fire then I might as well get a 357 magnum.

The Charter Arms PITBULL rimless revolver in 9mm Luger is taking FOR-E V E R...

I'm starting to think they won't be available in 2012

I sent an e-mail to Dan at Czechpoint USA and he said the 9231 will be back in stock in the spring of 2013.

The 9231 is the 3" barrel version of Alfa Proj's 9mm revolvers. I'd like to get the 6" version someday (9261).

snooperman · October 21, 2012, 01:31 PM

The 9mm revolver is a gun that is not needed. Hence, they just have not sold well. We have the 38 special +P and if that is not enough, we go straight to the 357 magnum. It is not hard to figure out.

October 14, 2012, 04:35 PM	#76
golden Member Join Date: August 28, 2007 Posts: 677	Not being sarcastic Weblance, The reason that 9m.m. revolvers are not popular is because they are revolvers! Semi-automatic pistols have displaced revolvers in most roles. They are still competitive as pocket pistols and snubnose revolvers and in the large hunting handgun market. It just is hard to imagine why I would carry a S&W 547(a terrific revolver by the way) instead of a GLOCK19, SIG-225 WALTHER P-99. I pick these guns because they are all similir in size and weight to the 547. I would rather have the 15 rouind magazine of the GLOCK or WATHER anytime over the 6 rounds in the 547. Even the small SIG 225 has an 8 round magazine. If forced to carry a revolver for anything but off duty use, I would go with the 547 and +P ammo. The 4 inch heavy barrel combined with MAGNA-PORTS makes it a fast and accurate shooter. Jim

October 17, 2012, 05:56 AM	#79
silvermane_1 Member Join Date: February 26, 2012 Location: burien WA Posts: 50	there is a simple solution to the 9mm wheelgun question, it's called someone inventing the 9mm luger auto rim, and if it is already out there someome needs to bring it back to fore front. __________________ "hey look lois, the two symbols of the republican party an elephant and a big fat white guy who's threatened by change". Peter Griffin Family Guy the .480 Ruger, for those who get it no explanation is needed, for those who don't get it, wouldn't understand.

October 17, 2012, 06:33 AM	#80
Brian Williams Moderator Join Date: December 22, 2002 Location: Phnom Penh, Cambodia Posts: 9,360	The biggest hassle with 9mm revolvers is the quality of the moonclips. There just is not enough space to get enough material to make good moonclips that hold the rounds very well. I like to use the Ruger moonclips in my 940 cylindered 642. The 40/10mm and the 45acp moonclips have much more space to provide enough material to make a good moonclip that is sturdy enough to hold the rounds and still has enough space to flex for the installation and removal of the cartridges or empty cases. The concept of a 9mm revolver is a great one and makes for fast unloads and reloads. I really would love to have a 13 that was factory chambered in 9mm and cut for moonclips. __________________ Watch out for the Stobor A teacher can never truly teach unless they are still learning themselves.

October 17, 2012, 11:35 PM	#86
silvermane_1 Member Join Date: February 26, 2012 Location: burien WA Posts: 50	HiCap1, could post some info on the Federal 9mm you mention?, im interested in the rimmed 9mm myself, thanks. __________________ "hey look lois, the two symbols of the republican party an elephant and a big fat white guy who's threatened by change". Peter Griffin Family Guy the .480 Ruger, for those who get it no explanation is needed, for those who don't get it, wouldn't understand.

October 18, 2012, 09:28 AM	#88
BigG Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Location: Dixieland Posts: 6,847	S&W 940 is a nice, quality revolver. __________________ Hatcher's Notebook Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson, 3rd Edition African Rifles and Cartridges Sixguns, by Keith M14 Rifle Winchester 1866 -1873 -1876 Rifles The Maxim Gun Wilson - Automatic Pistols Percussion Pistols & Revolvers - MEC Bob Brister - Shotgunning The Black Rifle

October 16, 2012, 09:16 PM	#77
weblance Member Join Date: September 15, 2011 Posts: 294	Jim... not everyone has given up on revolvers. If I was going to war, or was Law Enforcement, I would carry an autoloader, but for every day carry, I carry a 5 shot snub, and so do alot of people. This isnt a discussion of revolver vs autoloaders, Its a discussion of 9mm revolvers vs other revolvers. I guess I didnt make that clear at the beginning, but that was my intent.

October 16, 2012, 10:50 PM	#78
jc57 Member Join Date: May 29, 2011 Posts: 13	The reason for poor sales is that perhaps for the vast majority of the gun-owning public, many of whom do not frequent internet gun forums, the belief is that .38+P is more powerful than 9mm. I remember in the early 90s when police departments, including the one I worked for, switched from 38+P 125gr SJHP to 9mm shooting 115gr bullets with rather less reliably expanding JHPs, that we felt like we were trading down in power for an increase in capacity. Nowadays with 9mm +P and improved bullet design it's the other way around most of the time, but many shooters formed their opinions a while ago and some of those beliefs are passed on in the oral traditions in families and communities. Also some people look at the size of the cartridge and just assume that the .38 must shoot "harder" than that little bitty 9mm. The gun buying world isn't made of up solely of the most educated and rational people in the world. Just ask any gun shop employee, I'm sure they have a million stories they could tell you.

October 17, 2012, 04:39 PM	#81
HiCap1 Member Join Date: June 3, 2005 Posts: 55	Silvermane 1, Federal made just what you are suggesting, the Federal 9mm. I have two boxes of it, and when I pick up my new Taurus 905 next week, I'll try a few. The round may fit into an HKS model 36 or 36A speed loader, and if so, Bob's your uncle. HiCap

October 17, 2012, 10:55 PM	#85
PabloJ Member Join Date: October 17, 2010 Posts: 2,784	Not that long ago a fella offered me the best of this type S&W K-frame 4" rb for very reasonable price of $650 (only several tho were made and the gun did not have mark on it). He asked why I turned him down. I said it's not you or the gun, but I already own a Glock pistol.

October 18, 2012, 09:06 AM	#87
Remllez Member Join Date: March 9, 2011 Posts: 970	If ya gotta ask, you'll never understand....it ain't rocket science, it doesnt have to have a point. it's simply another choice offered to shooters who have the ability to accept different things for what they are. Some people get their undergarments all in a bunch over Moon Clips....really?

October 18, 2012, 01:03 PM	#90
weblance Member Join Date: September 15, 2011 Posts: 294	Ok... well I have my answers now. Some people will never embrace a new idea, and are so narrow minded that they will push against anything they dont understand with every ounce of energy they have. If you guys want to keep shooting your .38s and spending your money on a weaker, more expensive round, simply because most people are shooting a .38 revolver, then thats just fine with me. I feel I have found something that is really worth telling people about, but not many are listening. I will continue to shoot my revolver, enjoying its cheap ammo, getting more snub nose practice, and smiling all the while.

October 18, 2012, 01:35 PM	#91
2zulu1 Member Join Date: July 18, 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 850	Why limit the potential of a wheelgun with 9mm? Using the Starline website as an example, 357mag brass costs the same as 9mm +P, also, as a handloader, I'd feel more comfortable on the trail with a 38 Special/170gr Keith bullet than anything in 9mm. As others have stated, when 9mm wheelguns were offered commercially, buyers weren't impressed. Even the 10mm is not popular compared to other wheelgun calibers, including the 38 Special.

October 18, 2012, 08:57 PM	#96
tekarra Member Join Date: February 13, 2007 Posts: 1,141	The Taurus 905 does not need moon clips to shoot the 9 mm cartridge, but you have to pluck them out with your fingernail or tap them out from the front of the cylinder. This can be annoying. One thing the moon clip does is prevent set back of the cartridge case against recoil shield during firing. The 9 mm is a tapered case and can set back upon firing. For this reason, S&W added the limit pin to the 547.

October 20, 2012, 11:51 AM	#97
R.W.Dale Member Join Date: October 14, 2005 Location: Northwest Arkansas Posts: 9,718	By in large with a 905 Taurus and even a 30-30 BFR Ive found that case setback is an entirely overblown non issue. The only time it occurs is with oily chambers. With a properly cared for revolver it simply doesn't happen posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complaints about __________________ I understand what both sides are saying in the JHP vs FMJ arguments, but the fact remains that no matter what you're getting shot with YOU'RE STILL GETTING SHOT!!!

October 20, 2012, 03:28 PM	#98
HiCap1 Member Join Date: June 3, 2005 Posts: 55	Silvermane 1, the box of rimmed 9mm cartridges is marked as follows: "9mm FEDERAL, 115 jacketed hollow point bullet, no. 9F A, For use in revolvers only". I was given the two boxes ten or so years aho. I have tried them in the HKS speedloader no. 36 for J frames and Tauri small frames (.38 and .357). I will see if it works with the Taurus 905 on Monday. These loads in the speedloader makes a neat package. HiCap

October 20, 2012, 11:05 PM	#99
C0untZer0 Member Join Date: December 7, 2010 Location: Illinois Posts: 875	The Charter Arms 9mm Federal come up for sale every so often on Gun Auction. To me the 9mm fed defeats at least some of the purpose of having a 9mm revolver. If I'm going to get an entirely different cartridge from what my semi-autos fire then I might as well get a 357 magnum. The Charter Arms PITBULL rimless revolver in 9mm Luger is taking *FOR-E V E R...* I'm starting to think they won't be available in 2012 I sent an e-mail to Dan at Czechpoint USA and he said the 9231 will be back in stock in the spring of 2013. The 9231 is the 3" barrel version of Alfa Proj's 9mm revolvers. I'd like to get the 6" version someday (9261).

October 21, 2012, 01:31 PM	#100
snooperman Member Join Date: May 4, 2009 Posts: 1,457	The 9mm revolver is a gun that is not needed. Hence, they just have not sold well. We have the 38 special +P and if that is not enough, we go straight to the 357 magnum. It is not hard to figure out.