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Old November 14, 2012, 01:56 AM   #26
Kachok
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goalie View Post
I've got a thousand bucks that says you can't shoot five ten-shot groups under 1/2 MOA in a row at any distance over one hundred yards.

And it doesn't even have to be windy.

BTW, when did you leg out?
Five ten shot groups......heck I am good but I am not good for 50 perfect shots in a row even if it did have a bull barrel LOL, anyway I am not worried about you skepticism, feel free to bring any featherweight rifle you like to shoot against it, you won't win. I won't take you for a grand, but I will hit you up for lunch
I left the Army Feb 2nd 2001. Medical discharge (honorable) Served two years. Was supposed to go to the 7th Group Special Forces because of my shooting scores/PT/ and language skills but shatterd my leg in Airborne school
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Tikka T3 because 1/8th MOA is much better then I can ever shoot in the field anyway, and heavy rifles are a pain to carry around all day.
6.5x55 because they only get so dead, and recoil/muzzle blast are highly overrated.

Last edited by Kachok; November 14, 2012 at 02:12 AM.
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Old November 14, 2012, 02:42 AM   #27
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will double the thousand bucks, lol
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Old November 14, 2012, 08:00 AM   #28
Ky Larry
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It's good to see that the keyboards are shooting great, probably better than the rifles.

Is this a great time to be a shooter, or what? The rifles and ammo we have today are miles ahead of what was available just a few years ago. I have a Marlin XS7 in .243 and a Marlin X7VH in .22-250 and, with hand loads, they'll both shoot under .5" at 100 yrds. I've been thinking about a Ruger or another Marlin in .308.
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Old November 14, 2012, 02:12 PM   #29
Kachok
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ky Larry View Post
It's good to see that the keyboards are shooting great, probably better than the rifles.
Na, my keyboard is sloppy, think I might try Varget or RL-19 to try and tighten it up, that works on most of my rifles LOL.
For those who doubt that it is possable to get a factory rifle to group under 1/2" I would invite you to go shooting with me, I usualy go on Thursdays at Styx River. The really scarry part is what I do with my handloads is nothing compared to some of the guys I know, I reload at my kitchen table with a single stage el-chepo Lee kit, I know guys that have 10k+ in high end loading equipment that make me look sloppy. One guy I know has his own gunsmithing/handloading workshop with every tool you could imagine (and then some) Folks like that can REALLY tweek a rifle's accuracy. I can only dream of toys like that
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Tikka T3 because 1/8th MOA is much better then I can ever shoot in the field anyway, and heavy rifles are a pain to carry around all day.
6.5x55 because they only get so dead, and recoil/muzzle blast are highly overrated.
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Old November 14, 2012, 07:16 PM   #30
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I'm delighted with my .308 American. Shoots groups half the size of my much heavier 700 Varmint. Wasn't expecting that. I haven't measured them but 3 holes touching at 100 yards is the norm for the Ruger...
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Old November 14, 2012, 09:56 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhinoh View Post
I'm delighted with my .308 American. Shoots groups half the size of my much heavier 700 Varmint. Wasn't expecting that. I haven't measured them but 3 holes touching at 100 yards is the norm for the Ruger...
Thanks! This is exactly what I'm looking for. Not all the claims of 1/12 MOA on a windy day that has semi-hijacked thread
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Old November 14, 2012, 10:37 PM   #32
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Picked one up. Felt like a tinker toy. Put it back on the rack. Picked up a 77/.357 Now that's a nice feel!!!
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Old November 15, 2012, 12:48 AM   #33
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I have the American in a .243 and love it. I have shot it out to 500 yards with much better accuracy than I expected. I am using 36 grs. of Varget with a 85 Sierra HPBT. 40 grs. of IMR 4350 with the same bullet is working great also. The rifle is light, has a short bolt throw and a nice safety that clicks when you push it on but silent when you push it off. I don't have to worry if it gets scratched up while hunting and it is more than deer hunting accurate.
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Old November 15, 2012, 11:44 AM   #34
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Range reports have been less then stellar, good just not outstanding in my book. I guess it is a decent quality for the price, but I already have a few cheap "knock around" guns. If I did need another truck gun the Ruger would be in contention, I do think it is better then the 770 for sure.
Maybe I am just getting picky, but moa accuracy does not thrill me anymore, now a facotry rifle that will print 1/10th moa (or better) groups that gets my attention, thus far I have only been able to do that with Savage and Tikka. Not that you would ever need that level of accuracy in the woods, but I like my range bragging rights Best group out of my stock T3 was 1/12th MOA using hunting bullets.
Not that I think that you're prevaricating, but where are you located? If you're willing to wager a coupla thousand $$, I just might travel to see you shoot 1/12th m.o.a., 5-shot groups, measured center-to-center of the outside shots, @ 100 yds. Let me put it differently. I don't believe you. If you're shooting in the 1s, then you're setting world records for hunting-class rifles.
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Old November 15, 2012, 02:26 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kludge View Post
Picked one up. Felt like a tinker toy. Put it back on the rack. Picked up a 77/.357 Now that's a nice feel!!!
Love carrying my "tinker toy" up and down hills. A real pleasure as I am geting older. I should probably shape up and slim down, but since that seems to be harder to do, my rifles are getting slimmer.
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Old November 15, 2012, 04:48 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hentown View Post
Not that I think that you're prevaricating, but where are you located? If you're willing to wager a coupla thousand $$, I just might travel to see you shoot 1/12th m.o.a., 5-shot groups, measured center-to-center of the outside shots, @ 100 yds. Let me put it differently. I don't believe you. If you're shooting in the 1s, then you're setting world records for hunting-class rifles.
Robertsdale AL. Why does everyone think getting a one hole group is so absolutely unbelievable? I have seen that plenty of times before, from my rifles and others. You spend enough time at the range with good equipment and decent shooting skill and you are sure to pull off a few of those. Anyway I don't have a spare grand laying around to bet you, but as I have said plenty of times before you are welcome to come and see for yourself, heck I'll let you shoot it. Bring your best shooting rifle and I'll wager you lunch I can group tighter.
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Tikka T3 because 1/8th MOA is much better then I can ever shoot in the field anyway, and heavy rifles are a pain to carry around all day.
6.5x55 because they only get so dead, and recoil/muzzle blast are highly overrated.
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Old November 15, 2012, 08:54 PM   #37
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Quote:
Robertsdale AL. Why does everyone think getting a one hole group is so absolutely unbelievable? I have seen that plenty of times before, from my rifles and others. You spend enough time at the range with good equipment and decent shooting skill and you are sure to pull off a few of those. Anyway I don't have a spare grand laying around to bet you, but as I have said plenty of times before you are welcome to come and see for yourself, heck I'll let you shoot it. Bring your best shooting rifle and I'll wager you lunch I can group tighter.
You realize that you are talking smack of epic proportions, right? You are talking world-record benchrest type accuracy out of a stock hunting rifle.

Just to be clear, you won't accept a bet about shooting almost 5-times bigger groups than you are bragging about, but we're supposed to take you and your claims seriously?

Again, shooting like that, and having been in the Army, when did you leg out? I assume it only took 3 matches to do so, right??????

**crickets**
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Old November 15, 2012, 09:48 PM   #38
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Kachok, I measured your group from the other thread using OnTarget. The dime has a diameter of 705". You stated ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kachok
Just got home and put my calipers on it, .346" outside diameter at the widest point, subtract the .264 caliber and the bullets all hit within .082" of each other making that just slightly better then a 1/12th MOA load
In the vast majority of groups that I've shot, the hole in the paper or the "grease" mark is never as large as the bullet diameter. If you look at the .264" circles on your target, it's obvious that the holes are not even close to .264" in diameter.

The group as shot is still a very good group ... no need to make it seem better than it is.
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Old November 16, 2012, 03:09 AM   #39
Kachok
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goalie View Post
You realize that you are talking smack of epic proportions, right? You are talking world-record benchrest type accuracy out of a stock hunting rifle.

Just to be clear, you won't accept a bet about shooting almost 5-times bigger groups than you are bragging about, but we're supposed to take you and your claims seriously?

Again, shooting like that, and having been in the Army, when did you leg out? I assume it only took 3 matches to do so, right??????

**crickets**
OK first of all I never once claimed to be able to shoot that tight day in day out consistently, not once in any of my posts, as I said that is my best 100yd group to date, if I could do that every time I would be shooting pro. Why are you trying to make this out to be something different?
As far as the group size I just measured the outside edges of the hole, I don't get into any formula concerning the elastic deformation of the paper, if it really was slightly larger I apologize for the honest mistake.
My point still stands though, once I see a bunch of Ruger American owners nit picking the exact size of their one hole groups you will see me chomping at the bit to get one, been itching for a 243 for some time now and I really like that they use a 1:9 twist (as God intended). Don't NEED a 243, but that is the first cartrage I ever deer hunted with, and I always was kind of fond of it, good for vermin too.
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Tikka T3 because 1/8th MOA is much better then I can ever shoot in the field anyway, and heavy rifles are a pain to carry around all day.
6.5x55 because they only get so dead, and recoil/muzzle blast are highly overrated.

Last edited by Kachok; November 16, 2012 at 03:15 AM.
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Old November 16, 2012, 03:22 AM   #40
Kachok
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1858 View Post
Kachok, I measured your group from the other thread using OnTarget. The dime has a diameter of 705". You stated ....



In the vast majority of groups that I've shot, the hole in the paper or the "grease" mark is never as large as the bullet diameter. If you look at the .264" circles on your target, it's obvious that the holes are not even close to .264" in diameter.

The group as shot is still a very good group ... no need to make it seem better than it is.
Looking at your diagram of my group again I noticed that the circles representing the bullet holes are not evenly spaced from the outer edge of their respective holes, how did you calculate this? The top circle is right on the edge while the bottom one is way off of it, in fact that circle overlaps the black paint so it seems that there is no way that bullet struck that low. Circle on the left also overlaps some black paint, I would think that it would not stay untouched being struck by a bullet at those speeds.
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Tikka T3 because 1/8th MOA is much better then I can ever shoot in the field anyway, and heavy rifles are a pain to carry around all day.
6.5x55 because they only get so dead, and recoil/muzzle blast are highly overrated.

Last edited by Kachok; November 16, 2012 at 03:32 AM.
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Old November 16, 2012, 11:17 AM   #41
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Quote:
Why are you trying to make this out to be something different?
Because I have shot groups like that out of my Mossberg ATR-100 .270 before at 100 yards.

It is a 1-1.25" rifle. Great for hunting deer, and I've never had to shoot one twice with it. I don't care about the finish, and it cost about half of what the scope on top of it did......BUT.....shooting an odd group or two of tiny proportions doesn't mean a damn thing. If I average out the hundreds of groups I have shot with it, it is still a solid MOA or a tad bigger gun.

My deer-hunting stainless Tikka T3 lite in .308 has also shot some seriously small groups at 100. But, in the end, averaged out, it is still a 3/4 MOA shooter at 100. Pretty damn good for the price, especially in such a light rifle, but not anywhere near being capable of ALWAYS shooting sub 1/2MOA groups.

People pay a lot of money for 1/2MOA rifles. They sell their souls for 1/12MOA ones.......
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Old November 16, 2012, 12:03 PM   #42
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my T-3 Light .243 will shoot an inch or better if I do my part.biker
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Old November 21, 2012, 11:56 PM   #43
TheCracker
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I just had to have one so I bought it in 308 yesterday.

Went to the range this morning and tested some loads that my rem 5r likes and it shot 180 grain Sierra Game kings with varget very well. Taking time to let the barrel cool between shots it shot one .75", 3 shot group @100 yards and 2 different 3- shot groups that were just under a inch so ill call that a 1" group and go hunting!

It shot some 165 grain rem core lokt @1.5 inch just as I expected out o a cheap bullet.

After deer season i will defiantly work up some loads and see how much accuracy I can squeeze out of this little gun. I defiantly plan to try some 150.

Anyhow, thanks to all that replied!
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Old November 22, 2012, 12:38 AM   #44
Kachok
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Cool, 1 MOA accuracy is all dang near anyone needs for hunting. If you want to load up something that shoots a bit tighter in 308 try a 150gr Speer BTSP over a mild charge of Varget, I had my best test group with 44.5gr set at 2.800 on the dot. The picture won't upload but you could completely cover my test group with a quarter at 100yd shot out of my new Winchester 70 Featherweight (my second favorite rifle )
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Tikka T3 because 1/8th MOA is much better then I can ever shoot in the field anyway, and heavy rifles are a pain to carry around all day.
6.5x55 because they only get so dead, and recoil/muzzle blast are highly overrated.
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Old November 22, 2012, 08:52 AM   #45
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Its funny hearing people boo-hoo over hunting rifles that will only shoot 1" MOA. Oh, the shame. Poor poor wittle Johnny's wittle wifle will only shoot a 1.25" group all da way out at a hundred yards.
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Old November 22, 2012, 11:27 PM   #46
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Its funny hearing people boo-hoo over hunting rifles that will only shoot 1" MOA. Oh, the shame. Poor poor wittle Johnny's wittle wifle will only shoot a 1.25" group all da way out at a hundred yards.
I don't see anyone boo-hooing over anything. I'm quite pleased with 1" groups I'm getting on such a thin barreled light weight gun.

Troll much?
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Old November 23, 2012, 01:08 PM   #47
idcurrie
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People who are happy with the accuracy of their 'American Rifle' should try shooting as a Rifleman.

Shoot from various field positions. Use the sling to steady your shot. The pressure from the sling will 100% flex the for end of the stock into the barrel and change your POI.

There are many superior options available for someone who intends not to hunt from a bench rest.
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Old February 10, 2016, 03:23 PM   #48
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All I can say is what I have dealt with my RAR. I have a RAR in 308 that would shoot about 6 inch groups at 100 yards on a lead sled and did not change much with sand bags. I sent it back to Ruger and was told it had a burr on the crown and they recrowned it and it shot 11 shots through the same hole at 50 yards. I took it back to the range and used 168gr and 150 gr on a lead sled and sand bags and bipod. It shot better but not good. It went down to about 3 inch groups. I will say it must not be the rifle for me. I shoot my iron sight 03A3 with the same ammo and it will group 2 inchs no optics. I think its time for me and Ruger to part ways on this one.
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Old February 10, 2016, 04:24 PM   #49
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Why are we trying to make an inexpensive hunting rifle into a benchrest gun? I don't get it.

Quote:
Best group out of my stock T3 was 1/12th MOA using hunting bullets.
When I read that, I just took it to mean the / was in the wrong place. That's all.

These are hunting guns. And damn fine ones too. More than accurate enough for hunting shots at hunting distances on REAL animals. I have no idea why anyone would want to argue the difference between 1" and 1/2" (or less) at 100 yards with a hunting rifle.
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Old February 10, 2016, 09:38 PM   #50
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I have a predator 308 on order now, really looking forward to it. I decided to part with my 77 in 30-06. I'm going to take the American 18" and mount a 3-9x40 w/ illuminated reticle (bushnell) and put a surefire break on it (got one laying around) to hopefully tame the recoil.
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