380 Is A Handful

[kokapelli]

Originally Posted by allaroundhunter

Around here people will warn you ahead of time, .380 is rarely more manageable than 9mm in a small gun. The action type for .380 is typically a blowback while 9mm's use a delayed blowback action. This leads the .380 to feel sharper and, yes, unpleasant.

However, Sigs P238 is a very soft shooting .380.

That is simply not true! Most of the popular pocket 380 pistols today are just like the 9mm are not blowback, but rather are locked beach actions and if you try shooting a 9mm in the same size and weight as the popular pocket 380 pistols you are going to feel a lot more recoil from the 9mm.

I agree that the P238 has by far the least felt recoil of all the pocket 380 pistols.

[12Bravo20]

I don't have any problems with the recoil from my PA-63. I only stated that it has more felt recoil compared to my .380 pistols and also to other steel frame pistols chambered in 9x18. If I want to do a lot of shooting with .380, I use my Llama IIIA which has less felt recoil of all my small blow back pistols.

And as stated, a pocket pistol is designed for easy concealment not everyday shooting. Felt recoil will be more in small pistols versus full size ones.

[huntsman]

My BDA is a joy to shoot my LCP not so much but overall I'm a .380acp fan, when I want bigger it's .45acp for me.

[Spdracr39]

My .380 bodyguard is a little uncomfortable to shoot. It starts hurting the heel of my hand after 50 rounds. My Sig P938 9mm is the almost same size and is much easier on the hand.

[Roadking Rider]

Yea those little .380s sure aren't range toys. When it comes to shooting a lot of rounds I rather shoot my CZ82 9X18 than my P3at.

[TheReiver]

I have a Kel Tec P3AT. I like the gun but it's NO fun to shoot. In their defense these pocket rockets weren't designed to be range guns. The advantages with them is small size and low weight. Those two advantages always come with an increase in recoil vs guns of a larger size in the same caliber.

[Balrog]

The end of our culture must truly be near when grown men complain about the punishing, wrist breaking recoil of the mighty 380 ACP.

[hAkron]

Originally Posted by Balrog

The end of our culture must truly be near when grown men complain about the punishing, wrist breaking recoil of the mighty 380 ACP.

^^^

[xXxplosive]

Bought a Guardian .380 years ago on the reccomendation of another NRA Firearms Instructor.....the first gun was so bad the Co. took it back and issued me a second new one which I still have.....it's too heavy for pocket carry and is not reliable....IMO.
I won't sell a problem to another fellow sportsman so I just put it aside....I really have no need for this mouse gun and don't trust it at all.........

[meanmrmustard]

Originally Posted by Kiln

Honestly I don't get the guys who have issues with the PA63's recoil. I find it pretty comfortable and on par with .380acp myself. It isn't bad at all. Now the Polish P64 on the other hand beats the hell out of your hand and leaves you bruised up.

I can say two good things about the P64 though:

1. The trigger is probably the best on any milsurp gun I own.

2. It is very reliable.

I think the trigger on the P64 is subpar compared to the CZ82. But, I must agree:

1. P64 is a bear to shoot. Once, while slow firing, the cross pin that hinges the trigger guard fell out, and the damned thing field stripped itself...after loosing a round down range. Scary.

2. Minus that issue, never a malfunction. Flared the pin, lil blue Loctite, never comes loose. I'd take it over a Taurus TCP.

[meanmrmustard]

The end of our culture must truly be near when grown men complain about the punishing, wrist breaking recoil of the mighty 380 ACP.

The end of innocence must be nigh when all but a few posters comment to the uncomfortable shooting nature of a center fire cartridge in a gun not much larger than a key chain.

Meanwhile, the few that believe grown men to be insusceptible to pain, scoff. I suppose some are just more manly, able to fire the mighty 380ACP in guns smaller than those my children play with that fire caps.

Somebody's compensating.

[76shuvlinoff]

The recoil from my LCP is barely noticeable ..... if I numb my hand with a cylinder of warmed up .357s from my wife's SP101 first.


.

[kokapelli]

Originally Posted by meanmrmustard

I think the trigger on the P64 is subpar compared to the CZ82. But, I must agree:

1. P64 is a bear to shoot. Once, while slow firing, the cross pin that hinges the trigger guard fell out, and the damned thing field stripped itself...after loosing a round down range. Scary.

2. Minus that issue, never a malfunction. Flared the pin, lil blue Loctite, never comes loose. I'd take it over a Taurus TCP.

Based on what? Is it because the TCP is much more pocketable, or maybe because the TCP is much lighter, or because the TCP is a locked breach action that has less felt recoil? Just curious.

[meanmrmustard]

Originally Posted by kokapelli

Based on what? Is it because the TCP is much more pocketable, or maybe because the TCP is much lighter, or because the TCP is a locked breach action that has less felt recoil? Just curious.

Based on weight, and weight alone. Neither has a trigger I care for, so it would be subjective and unfair of me to say either is better in that regard. Action type helps, but weight trumps my ability to shoot the TCP any better or any less "painful" than a P64.

Felt recoil is subjective, an opinion. You obviously know mine. I think I deduced yours.

Edit to add: Sorry for the comparison not relating to the subject at hand.

[Glockenspieler]

VA27 wrote:" Seecamp .380. Every other is a pussycat"

+1
A real knucklebuster -- Makes a .44 Mag seem pleasant!

[armarsh]

Originally Posted by VA27

Seecamp .380. Every other is a pussycat.

+2 They are like a mousetrap on your fingers. I would rather shoot full-on magnums.

Sweet little guns though.

[Evil One]

I have a P3AT, and honestly... it is not bad at all to shoot.
I got the 380 when I dropped a bit of weight and my P11 became harder to pocket carry.
Compared to the P-11, the P3AT is a non event.
My wife even remarked to me about how mild it is, especially with the extended mag.
I would suggest it to anyone who could work the slide.


Jim

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[nelsonal]

Originally Posted by Balrog

The end of our culture must truly be near when grown men complain about the punishing, wrist breaking recoil of the mighty 380 ACP.

I was a little surprised to find that depending on your estimate of powder (5 and 20 gr were mine) a Taurus LCP shooting Cor-Bon 90 gr has more recoil velocity than a Super Redhawk firing Buffalo Bore's "Ruger/Thompson" heavy 340 grain loads. Far less total energy, but velocity was higher.

[cfullgraf]

My Beretta M84, Colt Mustang, Sig P238, and Walther PPK all are pretty soft recoilers. But, they are bigger and heavier than the micro 380 ACP handguns.

My KelTec P3AT is not as pleasant to shoot due to its small size and weight. But, shooting the KelTec is quite managable and concealable.

[kokapelli]

Originally Posted by niho

multiple wt in grs by velocity in fps, and drop the meaningless zeros, and you get recoil momentum "factor" for instance 50 grs at 2000 fps is the same "10-factor" recoil as 100 grs at 1000 fps. but the former has 450 ft lbs of energy, the latter has 220 ft lbs. If 2 guns are the same weight and both have a Browning tilting barrel delayed blowback, like the keltec does, then 90 grs at 800 fps will have the same recoil in the 9 oz p3AT as 180 grs at 800 fps in an 18 oz P40 keltec, which was/is so violent that KT quit making it. Also, the shorter the barrel/slide and shorter the grip, the worse the gun torques its muzzle upward in your hand. If you think that the P3at is bad, add 2 ozs, 20% of weight, as in the 11 oz Diamondback 9mm, and add 450 fps, as with a Corbon plus P 9mm, at 1250 fps in the pocket 9. Sheesh! I added 1 oz (3/4") of steel barrel extension, 2 ozs of steel "cap" and side-shims: to the slide, and 3 ozs of lead stock panels to the frame. Now it's adequately contolable with my loads (10 factor, not 12 factor). :-)

"Blowback" and what you refer to as "tilt barrel" which should be called "Locked Breach" are two distinctly different mechanisms!

Recoil operation is an operating mechanism used in locked-breech, autoloading firearms. As the name implies, these actions use the force of recoil to provide energy to cycle the action. Other operating systems are Blow forward operated, blowback operated, gas operated.

The same round fired from two different pistols at or near the same weight and with similar actions may still have significantly different felt recoil. There are a lot of other factors in pistol design beside bullet weight and velocity that will effect felt recoil.

[kerreckt]

Total agreement. I carry a P3AT and it isn't comfortable to shoot. As long as it works when I need it I have no complaints. I carry this strictly for self defense so I can put up with the small discomfort when I test fire it bi-weekly.

[GCBurner]

I found my P3AT was a lot easier to shoot, and more accurate for me, when I added the Pierce +1 extension to the magazines. Just having one extra finger able to grip it makes a world of difference. At current prices of .380 ammo, I only shoot off about half a box a month in practice, and usually only reloads, so I can save the premium ammo for actual carry use.

[brickeyee]

If you make a gun in almost any caliber small enough you can exaggerate the felt recoil.

[CZguy]

If you make a gun in almost any caliber small enough you can exaggerate the felt recoil.

Yep, it's physics, pure and simple.

[Snowdog]

I sometimes will carry a P64 in a IWB holster. The recoil is a bit on the punishing size, but the size is hard to pass up. The compact size, quality construction (for a milsurp) and sweet SA trigger almost make up for the recoil and crappy sights.

However, I have a P238HD on the way to essentially replace the P64 for anything I'd use the P64 for. It may not have the same light SA trigger the P64 does, but the mild recoil and usable sights will more than make up for that.

This may be something my wife will carry when she eventually obtains her CCW. From what I've read, most women can rack the slide and the pistol is safe to carry in condition 2, which is perfect for purse carry, IMHO.