Hornady 30 cal 160 grain FTX question

rightside · February 7, 2013, 07:00 PM

I picked up some of these today because that was all I could find on the shelf, I was not wearing my glasses ans discovered they say as used in our revolution lever action ammo.

I cannot find any load data on them, and they were to be loaded for a AR-10 vrs a lever action.

Anyone know where I can find some data on this?

Thanks for any replies.

NCsmitty · February 7, 2013, 07:53 PM

I'm guessing that you wanted to use these in a 7.62x51/308 rifle, and although these bullets are not designed for the velocity of the 308, they could be loaded using 165gr 308 load data if you start at the low end. The 160gr FTX bullets were designed around 30-30 velocities and could fragment on game at the higher velocities, but could be used for plinking and target. They have a small bearing area to grip the case, and probably should be crimped in place.

NCsmitty

rightside · February 7, 2013, 08:36 PM

Yep, I just found in my Lyman book that they are made for 30-30

I think I will try them, only if I use 165 grain load data I think I would need to use the OAL listed 2.780 and that will keep the case from sitting in the cannelure. Never done that before but I think it should work?

Thanks for your help.

blarby · February 7, 2013, 09:11 PM

I used these when they first came out for both 30-30 and .308- fairly accurate in .308.

I cant find my load notes for 'em, but the recommendation for starting load charges sounds about right.

bobnob · February 8, 2013, 05:08 AM

I loaded 200 of them in my 308. 44g of Varget gave 2675fps from a 24 inch barrel. They were accurate and hell on pigs and goats.

I am still shooting them.

YunGun · February 8, 2013, 11:08 AM

I had a heck of a time locating load data specifically for those projectiles as well. By the time I found the manufacturer's load data hidden away in the bowels of their website, my reloading mentor & I had already loaded up 20 rounds using generic 170gr jacketed load data & bulged my barrel. Although I've posted a few links to the 'hidden' page on their website since then, all recent attempts to re-locate it have failed; it appears that they've completely pulled that data from their site, likely to force you to purchase their load book.

[EDIT] I found the original data posted by Hornady, but this is 30-30-specific data, & the only 'official' data I ever found for that bullet
http://s1322.beta.photobucket.com/us...tml?sort=3&o=0

rcmodel · February 8, 2013, 11:39 AM

Quote:

if I use 165 grain load data I think I would need to use the OAL listed 2.780 and that will keep the case from sitting in the cannelure.

Seat to tha cannulure & work up from the 165 grain starting load.

rc

rightside · February 8, 2013, 07:01 PM

Ok.....seat to cannelure.

This will give me a OAL of 2.550, using IMR 4895, and Hornady 165-168 Bullet data (lowest I could find) I should start at 35.0 gr.

Please let me know if this sounds obviously wrong to you guys. I just dont want to bulge a barrel .....or

Thanks for the help.

NCsmitty · February 8, 2013, 08:10 PM

rightside, are you loading the 160gr FTX in 308 Win, because 35gr of IMR4895 does not sound right? Are you confusing 30-30 data with the 308 Win data?
YunGun likely did not bulge his barrel with his FTX loads without some type of obstruction in his barrel causing it. Something else was going on with that issue.

www.hodgdon.com has up to date data at their site.

rightside · February 8, 2013, 09:00 PM

Yes, using 308 data out of the small book (published by Loadbooks USA) for .308 Win - Hornady Bullets 165-168, starting load for IMR 4895 is 35.0 gr.

Lyman 49th under 165 gr. Jacketed Partition, is starting 38.0 gr. I was thinking of using 35 as I am seating the bullet deeper than 2.780, to 2.550 and my thinking was (it is a little less powder).

For a 30-30 Lyman shows 30.0 and 28.0 max loads for 150 and 170 gr bullets.

Thanks

YunGun · March 26, 2013, 04:27 PM

Quote:

YunGun likely did not bulge his barrel with his FTX loads without some type of obstruction in his barrel causing it. Something else was going on with that issue.

There was no barrel obstruction. The charge used in the post you are referring to was 32gr RL15, which was 2-2.5gr over maximum according to the official Hornady load data I linked in my previous post. In that case, we derived that load from the next heavier jacketed bullet data in the Lee Modern Reloading handbook, so it was presumed to be safe.

In retrospect, it was an easily avoidable mistake that I'd hate for anyone else to repeat. It did, however, impress upon me the utmost importance of using correct load data & cross referencing multiple sources, as hitherto we were both unaware that we had exceeded safe pressure limits in doing so.

NCsmitty · March 26, 2013, 10:42 PM

YunGun, I'm curious about your reported bulged barrel, where was the bulge located?

Usually, even a 2.5gr over max load would not create a bulge in the barrel without something like a jacket shed from a bullet lodged in the barrel. If we are talking a lever action rifle, it's hard to believe that enough pressure would be generated to cause a bulge because the actions are not a solid lock like a bolt action.
A look at Alliant's site shows 34gr of Rel-15 as a max load with a 150gr FN, and I have loaded the FTX myself in my Win94 30-30 at a grain over Hornady's maximum using H4895 and it's quite mild and chronographs under 2100fps.
I'm just saying it's hard to believe that your load bulged your barrel, and I think it was something else.

NCsmitty

YunGun · March 27, 2013, 11:44 AM

There was no outward sign of damage, however after the initial incident every spent case (factory included) got stuck in the chamber & had to be pounded out. I don't have my notes on hand at the moment however I recall measuring the empty case from that first FTX-loaded round & found that it had expanded by as much as .005 near the base and expanded the primer pocket as well when the primer was blown out of the case, and the web of all subsequently fired cases were a couple thousandths wider than previously fired cases as well.

I believe the 'bulge' is towards the rear of the chamber pretty much right where the extractor groove is cut out, as that seems to be where the majority of the case head enlargement was taking place; I'd also expect that to be the weakest section.

I don't consider myself an expert by any means, so it is entirely possible that there is some other factor at play here that I haven't yet considered. As you might imagine, I spent considerable time after-the-fact trying to recreate the events leading up to that incident to determine why it happened, but was ultimately unable to identify any other viable explanation. I can't completely rule out the possibility that that particular round somehow received additional powder through bridging or something (they were loaded on a Lee turret press using the auto-disk powder measure), but I do not think that is the case.

I still have the original barrel on the off-chance that more information could be gleaned from an 'autopsy', or that it could possibly be salvaged for some other use, but after confirming that the issue no longer occurred with a new barrel in place, I ultimately decided to chalk it up to user error & relate my experience to others as a cautionary tale.

twisted1600 · April 13, 2013, 02:20 PM

YunGun............first paragraph post 13...........

And you kept shooting?!!!!!

If I was your daddy I'd bitch slap you right in the mouth!!!!!!!!!!!
You are a complete ..............
You didn't notice blown primer and bulged cases while you were shooting?
I find it hard to believe you did all that homework before undertaking this reload and then through the common sense out the window when you pulled the trigger!!!!!
You should reconsider the hobby you've choosen....before you damage/kill yourself or someone else.

Nikdfish · April 13, 2013, 03:04 PM

There are two versions of the 160 grain FTX. One for the 30-30 and one for the .308 Marlin Express & the cannelure is different for each. The cannelure on the .308 ME is farther back than the 30-30 one. The difference between the two could create possible pressure issues if you are loading deeper in the case than the load data intended. When used in other cases, you probably should ignore the cannelure & seat to a level that keeps the available case volume consistant with what your load data expects.

I have loaded the 30-30 version for a 300BLK (the 30-30 version expands better at lower velocities than the .308 ME) and seat it well below the cannelure. I then use a Lee factory crimp die as the final step.

Nick

YunGun · April 23, 2013, 11:28 PM

Quote:

And you kept shooting?!!!!!

If I was your daddy I'd bitch slap you right in the mouth!!!!!!!!!!!
You are a complete ..............
You didn't notice blown primer and bulged cases while you were shooting?
I find it hard to believe you did all that homework before undertaking this reload and then through the common sense out the window when you pulled the trigger!!!!!
You should reconsider the hobby you've choosen....before you damage/kill yourself or someone else.

twisted1600:

Thank you ever so much for your insight. It is very much appreciated. And useful. And very becoming of a 'High Road' member, might I add.

You have apparently made the erroneous ASSumption that I continued blithely firing away, pounding stuck cases out of my rifle, inserting new ones, hoping to injure myself & any bystanders that might have happened to be at the range that day, which was hardly the case. As I stated in the original thread that I linked to in my previous post, which you obviously did not bother to read, "...so I immediately decided the rest of the rounds were unsafe & took them home to be disassembled."

I have nothing further to say to your kind that is fit to be placed in text on this board. Have a wonderful life sir.

popper · April 24, 2013, 04:28 PM

There are 2 versions of the 30 cal FTX. 308ME and 30-30. I loaded the 30-30 in 308MX and they did fine. I crimped to the groove and didn't crimp - both are OK. I don't crimp for my AR anyway (well just a light FCD) so I'd load them long. The profile is like the 168 Amax & I don't crimp them.

ArchAngelCD · April 25, 2013, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by popper

There are 2 versions of the 30 cal FTX. 308ME and 30-30. I loaded the 30-30 in 308MX and they did fine. I crimped to the groove and didn't crimp - both are OK. I don't crimp for my AR anyway (well just a light FCD) so I'd load them long. The profile is like the 168 Amax & I don't crimp them.

I was about to write the same thing, the 2 versions of the 30 Cal FTX bullets will expand at different velocities. The ones developed for the 308MX are much better suited for the .308 Win than the ones meant for use in the 30-30.

In reality I would try to trade them off for bullets better suited for your .308 Win so that both of you get exactly what you need.

gamestalker · April 25, 2013, 02:08 PM

And YunGun, I apologize for twisted1600's inappropriate comments, and I hope this doesn't give you the wrong impression of THR. We may not always agree with each other, but we do so with respect and dignity.
I hope that a moderator will further address twisted1600 with a PM warning him of misconduct.
GS

YunGun · April 25, 2013, 06:48 PM

Hardly your doing, but I appreciate the sentiment nonetheless.
Although I admit to being offended by his comments, I am fully aware this type of behavior is not representative of the larger group that frequent this site.

I'm not overly concerned about it as I've made my share of assumptions throughout the years, & as I read back through my previous post(s) I realized that it would be rather easy to reach that conclusion since I did not explicitly state that I stopped, disassembled those rounds & continued my testing across several additional range trips.

No worries - got mah panties all un-bunched & movin on...
Karma & all that...

February 7, 2013, 07:00 PM	#1
rightside Member Join Date: March 5, 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 185	Hornady 30 cal 160 grain FTX question I picked up some of these today because that was all I could find on the shelf, I was not wearing my glasses ans discovered they say as used in our revolution lever action ammo. I cannot find any load data on them, and they were to be loaded for a AR-10 vrs a lever action. Anyone know where I can find some data on this? Thanks for any replies. __________________ All Rights Reserved.......

February 7, 2013, 07:53 PM	#2
NCsmitty Member Join Date: June 29, 2008 Location: North Carolina Posts: 4,956	I'm guessing that you wanted to use these in a 7.62x51/308 rifle, and although these bullets are not designed for the velocity of the 308, they could be loaded using 165gr 308 load data if you start at the low end. The 160gr FTX bullets were designed around 30-30 velocities and could fragment on game at the higher velocities, but could be used for plinking and target. They have a small bearing area to grip the case, and probably should be crimped in place. NCsmitty __________________ Sic Semper Tyrannis "thus always to tyrants"

February 7, 2013, 08:36 PM	#3
rightside Member Join Date: March 5, 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 185	Yep, I just found in my Lyman book that they are made for 30-30 I think I will try them, only if I use 165 grain load data I think I would need to use the OAL listed 2.780 and that will keep the case from sitting in the cannelure. Never done that before but I think it should work? Thanks for your help. __________________ All Rights Reserved.......

February 7, 2013, 09:11 PM	#4
blarby Member Join Date: February 25, 2011 Location: JC, Oregon Posts: 2,900	I used these when they first came out for both 30-30 and .308- fairly accurate in .308. I cant find my load notes for 'em, but the recommendation for starting load charges sounds about right. __________________ 05/14/03 : My life has been CRAZY busy. If I owe you anything on a trade, or a PIF- please PM me with my apologies in advance !

February 8, 2013, 11:08 AM	#6
YunGun Member Join Date: July 27, 2012 Location: KS Posts: 16	I had a heck of a time locating load data specifically for those projectiles as well. By the time I found the manufacturer's load data hidden away in the bowels of their website, my reloading mentor & I had already loaded up 20 rounds using generic 170gr jacketed load data & bulged my barrel. Although I've posted a few links to the 'hidden' page on their website since then, all recent attempts to re-locate it have failed; it appears that they've completely pulled that data from their site, likely to force you to purchase their load book. [EDIT] I found the original data posted by Hornady, but this is 30-30-specific data, & the only 'official' data I ever found for that bullet http://s1322.beta.photobucket.com/us...tml?sort=3&o=0 Last edited by YunGun; February 8, 2013 at 11:27 AM.

February 8, 2013, 05:08 AM	#5
bobnob Member Join Date: January 22, 2011 Location: New South Wales, Australia Posts: 130	I loaded 200 of them in my 308. 44g of Varget gave 2675fps from a 24 inch barrel. They were accurate and hell on pigs and goats. I am still shooting them.

February 8, 2013, 07:01 PM	#8
rightside Member Join Date: March 5, 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 185	Ok.....seat to cannelure. This will give me a OAL of 2.550, using IMR 4895, and Hornady 165-168 Bullet data (lowest I could find) I should start at 35.0 gr. Please let me know if this sounds obviously wrong to you guys. I just dont want to bulge a barrel .....or Thanks for the help. __________________ All Rights Reserved.......

February 8, 2013, 08:10 PM	#9
NCsmitty Member Join Date: June 29, 2008 Location: North Carolina Posts: 4,956	rightside, are you loading the 160gr FTX in 308 Win, because 35gr of IMR4895 does not sound right? Are you confusing 30-30 data with the 308 Win data? YunGun likely did not bulge his barrel with his FTX loads without some type of obstruction in his barrel causing it. Something else was going on with that issue. www.hodgdon.com has up to date data at their site. __________________ Sic Semper Tyrannis "thus always to tyrants"

February 8, 2013, 09:00 PM	#10
rightside Member Join Date: March 5, 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 185	Yes, using 308 data out of the small book (published by Loadbooks USA) for .308 Win - Hornady Bullets 165-168, starting load for IMR 4895 is 35.0 gr. Lyman 49th under 165 gr. Jacketed Partition, is starting 38.0 gr. I was thinking of using 35 as I am seating the bullet deeper than 2.780, to 2.550 and my thinking was (it is a little less powder). For a 30-30 Lyman shows 30.0 and 28.0 max loads for 150 and 170 gr bullets. Thanks __________________ All Rights Reserved.......

March 26, 2013, 10:42 PM	#12
NCsmitty Member Join Date: June 29, 2008 Location: North Carolina Posts: 4,956	YunGun, I'm curious about your reported bulged barrel, where was the bulge located? Usually, even a 2.5gr over max load would not create a bulge in the barrel without something like a jacket shed from a bullet lodged in the barrel. If we are talking a lever action rifle, it's hard to believe that enough pressure would be generated to cause a bulge because the actions are not a solid lock like a bolt action. A look at Alliant's site shows 34gr of Rel-15 as a max load with a 150gr FN, and I have loaded the FTX myself in my Win94 30-30 at a grain over Hornady's maximum using H4895 and it's quite mild and chronographs under 2100fps. I'm just saying it's hard to believe that your load bulged your barrel, and I think it was something else. NCsmitty __________________ Sic Semper Tyrannis "thus always to tyrants"

March 27, 2013, 11:44 AM	#13
YunGun Member Join Date: July 27, 2012 Location: KS Posts: 16	There was no outward sign of damage, however after the initial incident every spent case (factory included) got stuck in the chamber & had to be pounded out. I don't have my notes on hand at the moment however I recall measuring the empty case from that first FTX-loaded round & found that it had expanded by as much as .005 near the base and expanded the primer pocket as well when the primer was blown out of the case, and the web of all subsequently fired cases were a couple thousandths wider than previously fired cases as well. I believe the 'bulge' is towards the rear of the chamber pretty much right where the extractor groove is cut out, as that seems to be where the majority of the case head enlargement was taking place; I'd also expect that to be the weakest section. I don't consider myself an expert by any means, so it is entirely possible that there is some other factor at play here that I haven't yet considered. As you might imagine, I spent considerable time after-the-fact trying to recreate the events leading up to that incident to determine why it happened, but was ultimately unable to identify any other viable explanation. I can't completely rule out the possibility that that particular round somehow received additional powder through bridging or something (they were loaded on a Lee turret press using the auto-disk powder measure), but I do not think that is the case. I still have the original barrel on the off-chance that more information could be gleaned from an 'autopsy', or that it could possibly be salvaged for some other use, but after confirming that the issue no longer occurred with a new barrel in place, I ultimately decided to chalk it up to user error & relate my experience to others as a cautionary tale.

April 13, 2013, 02:20 PM	#14
twisted1600 Member Join Date: February 11, 2010 Location: Boise,Idaho Posts: 13	YunGun............first paragraph post 13........... And you kept shooting?!!!!! If I was your daddy I'd bitch slap you right in the mouth!!!!!!!!!!! You are a complete .............. You didn't notice blown primer and bulged cases while you were shooting? I find it hard to believe you did all that homework before undertaking this reload and then through the common sense out the window when you pulled the trigger!!!!! You should reconsider the hobby you've choosen....before you damage/kill yourself or someone else. __________________ It doesn't matter what you shoot...just shoot it.

April 13, 2013, 03:04 PM	#15
Nikdfish Member Join Date: April 20, 2007 Posts: 330	There are two versions of the 160 grain FTX. One for the 30-30 and one for the .308 Marlin Express & the cannelure is different for each. The cannelure on the .308 ME is farther back than the 30-30 one. The difference between the two could create possible pressure issues if you are loading deeper in the case than the load data intended. When used in other cases, you probably should ignore the cannelure & seat to a level that keeps the available case volume consistant with what your load data expects. I have loaded the 30-30 version for a 300BLK (the 30-30 version expands better at lower velocities than the .308 ME) and seat it well below the cannelure. I then use a Lee factory crimp die as the final step. Nick __________________ NRA Life Member Retired FBOP

April 24, 2013, 04:28 PM	#17
popper Member Join Date: November 10, 2010 Posts: 876	There are 2 versions of the 30 cal FTX. 308ME and 30-30. I loaded the 30-30 in 308MX and they did fine. I crimped to the groove and didn't crimp - both are OK. I don't crimp for my AR anyway (well just a light FCD) so I'd load them long. The profile is like the 168 Amax & I don't crimp them.

April 25, 2013, 02:08 PM	#19
gamestalker Member Join Date: September 10, 2008 Location: SW Arizona Posts: 4,198	And YunGun, I apologize for twisted1600's inappropriate comments, and I hope this doesn't give you the wrong impression of THR. We may not always agree with each other, but we do so with respect and dignity. I hope that a moderator will further address twisted1600 with a PM warning him of misconduct. GS

April 25, 2013, 06:48 PM	#20
YunGun Member Join Date: July 27, 2012 Location: KS Posts: 16	Hardly your doing, but I appreciate the sentiment nonetheless. Although I admit to being offended by his comments, I am fully aware this type of behavior is not representative of the larger group that frequent this site. I'm not overly concerned about it as I've made my share of assumptions throughout the years, & as I read back through my previous post(s) I realized that it would be rather easy to reach that conclusion since I did not explicitly state that I stopped, disassembled those rounds & continued my testing across several additional range trips. No worries - got mah panties all un-bunched & movin on... Karma & all that...