The next time someone says "no one uses an AR to hunt"

[SoCalNoMore]

I don't hunt, but if I needed to I am sure my Colt AR would do just fine.

[ssyoumans]

I took a 6pt GA buck last November with my AR15 in 6.8 SPC II using a 95gr TTSX hand load. It does the job very well. Plan to take it hog hunting this year.
I took deer last year with a muzzleloader, 243 Win and the 6.8. I chose taking the 6.8 over my 308 bolt action. I think her feelings were hurt

[HOOfan_1]

Originally Posted by Texan Scott

Best response: "You're wrong about that, but you're also missing the point."

Or...."you really don't know anything about guns, and probably should educate yourself before you start spouting off"

[Tirod]

The argument used by some - AR's aren't used for hunting - does need to be addressed. Those who say it are repeating 1) a lie, and 2) are completely uninformed. And, I hear it from gun guys, too. The president of the National Turkey Federation said it the other day.

One thing they like to point out is that "nobody needs a 30 round magazine to hunt." Which completely ignores the fact most states have a capacity limit of 5 to 10 rounds regardless. That needs to be pointed out - it's a major tell they aren't a hunter, or are deliberately ignoring the facts to support their emotional rant. We need to get them thinking - not arguing among ourselves. They are wrong regardless, stick to the real problem.

When people say AR's aren't used for hunting, my next question is "Do you hunt?" Likely, if they aren't feeling threatened, they answer no. Don't get dramatic, simply tell them it's not true, it's better to say that you do, and it's no different than any other gun. Let them go for another try - it's likely the magazine thing.

The problem isn't them spouting ignorance, it's US not having a polite and reasoned answer. What usually happens is the discussion gets into a debate over social class and masculinity - both parties are monkey dancing to see who is the dominant male. It's the locker room measuring contest all over again, and if you aren't prepared to calmly ignore their baiting, then you will play the role of thug to their reasoned adult, and you lose.

Oh, by the way, the AR is a better hunting rifle, and I can discuss the point. I've posted it here and elsewhere. In short, the magazine makes it safer to unload, manual actions often require you to cycle every round thru the chamber with a cocked firing assembly. The AR, drop the mag, pull the charging handle, empty right now. Second, the AR is usually in a lighter caliber, and the biggest interest in shooting AR IS in a hunting caliber to bring down game humanely. You can shoot an AR more accurately because it has less recoil AND you know it. Further, you can let off a follow up shot more quickly with less game loss, you don't lose your sight picture cranking the action with your trigger hand. The AR is a SUPERIOR hunting rifle.

Those who work retail have a great deal of experience handling ignorance from customers with no clue - if you do, that's the approach to take. Polite, informed, educational, and sell them the truth. Nobody wins if you think the other guy is a complete idiot - that is the #1 clue you're getting into a measuring contest of wills. Be the responsible adult, and you have given them an example of the role model they need to see as the actual AR user.

Lots of people DO hunt with an AR, and it's the ones deflecting that issue or in denial who are helping the anti gunners. It's exactly the point of their oft repeated lie, and it needs to be directly confronted. Every lie we expose is a win for us.

Over 21 million veterans are trained on the M16, and its the biggest selling firearm in the marketplace for the past five years. The AR is a hunting rifle, it's safer, it's more accurate, and it's more humane in use.

Stop feeding the lies.

[gym]

Did you see Biden today, he said a doubble barell shotgun is all you need. He was responding to a reader who sent in a comment that was pro 30 round magazine. He said he told his wife to go out on the porch "or deck" and fire both shells. Has to be one of the dumbest things you could say.
I wish it was a live debate.

[Ehtereon11B]

Originally Posted by Akita1

Not sure I agree - freedom comes first, then hunting (and yes, I am an avid hunter and use ARs to hunt). 2A is not about hunting, it's about freedom from tyranny. Hunting with such tools granted under that banner is a fringe benefit.

Was speaking about modern times. 2A was written to prevent tyranny. It has been on the back burner for 200 years. Been moving closer to the front recently.

[wacki]

Originally Posted by Justin

Whenever someone says "ARs aren't used for hunting" ask them why there are so many hits for a Google image search for "AR rifle, hunting."

Perfect

[Big_John1961]

I think Justin, BigBore and others are right on point; stay focused on what matters and that's the 2nd Amendment. All this chaff being put out there by the antis can only detract (or distract) from what really matters and that's our right to keep and bear arms and without these ridiculous restrictions being proposed. It's really as simple as that.

[Kiln]

The guys who think you can't hunt with an AR are the guys that don't understand what a semi-automatic firearm is.

They think that when you pull the trigger the deer is destroyed by a barrage of full auto fire similar to middle eastern bad guys in any 80's movie.

These people are completely ignorant morons.

[rdhood]

The argument used by some - AR's aren't used for hunting - does need to be addressed. Those who say it are repeating 1) a lie, and 2) are completely uninformed. And, I hear it from gun guys, too. The president of the National Turkey Federation said it the other day.

I agree. This creates enough misconception outside of those who actually know what an AR is that, if not addressed, becomes true. An accusation that goes unanswered becomes truth.

And the truth is, LOTS of people hunt with ARs. It is so ubiquitous that you even see some of the guys on "Yukon Men" hunt elk with them. Most people hunt with the best gun they have that gets the job done. Often, that is NOT an AR-15. But if all you have is an AR-15... then that is your hunting rifle.

[Dnaltrop]

My response to the "AR's aren't used for hunting"?

Pull up Flintknapper's feral hog hunting thread here on THR and point out his .458 SOCOM.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=449721

[R.W.Dale]

If you've accepted that the ability to hunt with a firearm is a valid point to make against banners then you've already failed the discussion.

The right answer is WHO CARES IF ANYONE HUNTS WITH IT? the 2a wasn't written with sportsman in mind.




posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complains about

[mastiffhound]

The point is putting these fools in their place (in the corner with the dunce cap) every time they open their mouths. The 2A argument is one point, when you throw that in their face they move on to the hunting. Pointing out every time they open their mouths they look stupid is the best you can do. People used to say that George W. was a moron, but he never said that taking a 12 gauge double barrel out back and firing off 2 rounds willy-nilly was a good idea. This is the idiotic retardation we are up against, best to put these morons in their place. Put these idiot window lickers in their place enough and they will shut up and fade to the shadows, NO ONE LIKES TO BE POINTED AT AND LAUGHED AT.

Embarrassment is the only thing these types understand. They are bullies, plain and simple. In school they pushed the little kids down every day to take their lunch money. Like school they always do something stupid. When they crap their pants in class you don't let them live it down, from that day forward you call them crap pants. You push back. It's funny how they end up as the guy robbing liquor stores for change and spending their days in prison. Yeah, I was bullied. I was the small malnourished kid. No, I never kicked the guys butt (by high school I was bigger and was playing football and boxing) and yes he was known as crap pants only in much more descriptive words. I'm just saying don't give them an inch, point out their ingnorance at every turn, and I promise they will crap their pants. Oops, Uncle Joe already did!

[ACP]

Of course ARs are used for hunting. A carpenter friend of mine made a bid on my Colt because he wanted to move up from his .204 Ruger for coyotes. And, of course, changeable uppers allow you to shoot larger calibers than .223.

So the anti-gunners show the depth of their ignorance there.

Their other argument is "you don't need a 30 round magazine to hunt deer." And I would reply, no I don't use a 30-round magazine to hunt deer... I use it to plink at targets at the range.

And, BTW -- who needs more than 60 horsepower or so to drive the 65mph national speed limit? If I give up my 30-round magazine because it is "unnecessary" and "unreasonable" will you give up your V-8, 350hp Lexus??

No??

Then we have a deal.

[Ehtereon11B]

The right answer is WHO CARES IF ANYONE HUNTS WITH IT? the 2a wasn't written with sportsman in mind.

I was debating an anti not too long ago who claimed the second was about hunting. He felt stupid when I said "Yes the founding fathers loved hunting so much, the made it the second rule when building a new government. The really loved their tasty, yummy deer."

I think any of the "you don't need 30 rounds to hunt deer" have never heard of 5, 10, 20 round magazines for ARs. I think that would make their brains implode.

[Boostedtwo]

I personally use mine to hunt coyotes and for target.

[BigBore44]

Mastiff you sound pretty angry. I too was bullied in school until highschool. And then I did make a few of the bullies crap themselves. But that was highschool. Now in the adult world if we were to go the route you propose we look like the crazy *********s the left is trying to make us look like. However, I do believe in standing up for yourself. But this isn't a fight with a guy at the bar that bows his chest at you. We both know how to handle that situation. Smash his face with a left hook and a straight right. But this is persuading some of the publics opinion about gun owners. I prefer to make the antis look dumb during my cross examination of their ridiculous statements.

[CmpsdNoMore]

What a person legally uses a firearm for has nothing to do with whether it should be banned or not.

That being said, I would call one 62 gr. soft point through the heart while running a humane kill.

[Double Naught Spy]

Or...."you really don't know anything about guns, and probably should educate yourself before you start spouting off"

I am afraid you may have missed a significant part of the problem. Many of the people not in the know HAVE educated themselves...and done a less than proper job of it. Telling a person to educate themselves when they already "know" what they are talking about won't work. After all, if a person thinks they know the material and thinks YOU are wrong, then why would they educate themselves. They think you are the one in need of education. As such, you can't expect them to learn on their own. Helping them in a nonconfrontational manner would go a lot further than telling them to educate themselves.

[mdemetz]

Introduced as a sport rifle in '65 .

[StrutStopper]

Not that this argument is about hunting, but in my state the only centerfire calibers that can legally be used to hunt with are those smaller than .225. It will be interesting to see what our governer (who PROMISED to pass new gun legislation) will come up with to make my perfectly legal hunting rifle illegal in the near future.

[Akita1]

Originally Posted by CmpsdNoMore

What a person legally uses a firearm for has nothing to do with whether it should be banned or not.

That being said, I would call one 62 gr. soft point through the heart while running a humane kill.

On the run through the heart - impressive!

[Akita1]

Originally Posted by Ehtereon11B

Was speaking about modern times. 2A was written to prevent tyranny. It has been on the back burner for 200 years. Been moving closer to the front recently.

Roger that

[JASmith]

Folks are on the mark when saying that the second amendment is not about hunting or recreational shooting. It is all about protecting the citizenry from all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Having acknowledged that, I submit that the more folks that use ARs for hunting or competition, the more that will recognize them as tools. That means more people who are likely to understand the value of the AR for both hunting and defense.

An example of AR cartridges designed expressly for hunting is the 6.5 Grendel. Bullets from this cartridge best those from those from the .243 Winchester at all ranges. The wind drift is less. Pretty much the same aimpoint can be used out to past 250 yards when both are sighted in at 200 yards. Past that point, we are likely to lase the target to get the correct holdover or number of clicks so the differences in trajectory are meaningless.

There is more on this in the newly-published 6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbook.

[NY'er]

Originally Posted by Ehtereon11B

I was debating an anti not too long ago who claimed the second was about hunting. He felt stupid when I said "Yes the founding fathers loved hunting so much, the made it the second rule when building a new government. The really loved their tasty, yummy deer."

Ehtereon11B absolutely nailed it!

I hope you don't mind if I use this, and often. It's the most "Common Sense" answer I've heard and it makes the point without being defensive or aggressive. Perfect!

In fact someone should forward this thought to Wayne LaPierre, all of our representatives who are "trying to protect hunters' rights".... and of course Piers Morgan