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Old March 20, 2013, 07:11 PM   #176
CZguy
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Quote:
30-06 at 1500 yards? Please elaborate as well.
I imagine that the 30.06 would be pretty effective at 1500 yards. Unfortunately my eyes are only good to 1,000.
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Old March 20, 2013, 07:24 PM   #177
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Drooling over the idea of an AR-06. Looks amazing.
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Old March 20, 2013, 07:55 PM   #178
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AR chambered in 30-06. And yes it's an 8 pound rifle.
America's favorite rifle in America's favorite caliber. I like it.
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Old March 20, 2013, 09:12 PM   #179
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What mags? Long round for an AR. Details, buffer and spring, etc!! I'm drooling already!
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Old March 23, 2013, 02:18 AM   #180
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Sorry for the delay; been job hunting for this week. Got laid off last week; 2 offers came in today so I'm back. Full disclosure, I do not have any stake or interst in this company but I'd appreciate it if you tell them Brandon in Texas sent you. (Maybe they'll cut me some slack on future orders ... do you really think I'll stop at one? )


This is their old marketing pic that was taken down.

Ok, details on the 30-06 AR. The company is Noreen firearms. http://www.onlylongrange.com

While shopping for my 50 BMG last fall I ran across them and Nemo Arms. http://www.nemoarms.com

Both companies are producing either a 300 Win Mag or 338 Lapua semi automatic AR platform. At $5999 (Noreen) and $5300 (Nemo) I about had a heart attack. Then I asked Noreen if they were ever planning a 30-06 chambered AR system (because the ammo is cheaper). They said they had a prototype and were working on it.

Of course I said TAKE MY MONEY. And ordered it in very early November (pre-election) for $1XXX. 2013 prices have gone up (thanks Obama) but they are still very VERY reasonable at $1799.

Initial production was slated for January of this year but production delays and reworking the magazine have pushed it to early April 2013. Apparently I am damn near the top of the list on private citizen orders (serial number SHOULD be below 100 for those who like that kind of stuff)

I've spoken for about a total of 90 minutes on the phone with their engineers and reps getting some information so I'll put everything I know here. (A review will be coming after the rifle arrives.)

So here are the specs right off their web page. Here's the link but I'll type them out here.

BN 36 Rifle

Caliber: 30-06, 270, 25-06
Operation: Direct Gas Impingement, Side Charging Semiauto
Barrel : 22"
Muzzle Brake attached, uses 5/8 X 24 threads
Weight: 8 pounds
Rifling: RH 1 in 10
Stock: A2
Magazine: 5/10/20 rounds
Trigger: Milspec or optional

Notes from my discussions with them.
  • If you go on their website you will also see the Bad News 338 Lap / 300 WinMag rifle as well. That rifle is 13.5 pounds while the BN36 is only 8 pounds. I was told that the receivers for the BN36 are slightly lighter and thinner because the brute force strength is not required for 30-06 versus the other cartridges.
  • Comes with a Hard Case.
  • 270 Winchester & 25-06 Remington will be forthcoming after intial orders are filled and shipped [pending]
  • That muzzle brake WILL be coming off when I work up accelerator rounds for this beast.
  • The entire system is based off the AR-15 platform. The custom parts on this are the upper receiver, bolt carrier, lower receiver, mag and obviously the barrel [who else makes a 30-06 chambered AR barrel ... I need to know]
  • The bolt is a standard AR-10 bolt system but Noreen is using a proprietary heat treat system on them to make them stronger in order to accomodate the 270 Winchester and 25-06's higher chamber pressures (65K psi / 63k psi per SAAMI specs).
  • What this means is that 65K psi 30-06 cartridges are possible in a semi-auto chamber and I intend to slowly and SAFELY work up loads [while checking for pressure signs obviously] for long range and specialized 30-06 loads specific to this rifle.
  • Triggers and internal parts are completely AR-15 compatible
  • Noreen does offer a Timney trigger option for $260 or so [not an exact price quote so just ask em]
  • For Class 3 guys I was informed that an RDIAS will fit and operate in this platform. Obviously, let's play by the rules and be legal (of course) ... (They have a video of a full auto Bad News 338) ....
    Full Auto Bad News 338 Lapua
  • The stock uses a rifle length buffer tube for the AR-15
  • Magazines: This is the part that is not so fun. The rifle comes with 2 magazines and they are using a proprietary design. Extra mags are at $80 a pop (at last quote) but if you order more than 10 they will drop the price at bit ($60 seems reasonable). On the bright side they use a pinning option to modify the 20 round to handle only 5 or 10 depending on what's legal for hunting around you.
  • The second bright spot on the magazines is that the magazine well will be larger than 85mm (OAL for 30-06). This should allow very heavy bullet loads to be worked up.
  • I'm sure that everyone is watching ammo prices like a hawk but here's an interesting twist. 30-06 is now regularly cheaper than 5.56/.223 ammo that I have been finding in stock in places.
    (http://www.gunbot.net)
  • At last check if you order direct from Noreen you can expect roughly an August to September delivery date. They did however state that they have a few thousand in the pipeline going out to various dealer orders. So if you just HAVE to have it now, you can probably get it in May with a bit of a premium.

Now for myself I have some seriously interesting plans for this puppy.

I do intend to get a second upper receiver so that I can alternate calibers. Noreen has already stated that they will only sell complete rifles at this point until they catch up with initial demand.
I also intend on working up that 1500 yard 30-06 load (more on that in a second post)
Accelerator rounds: Been doing a LOT of homework and talking to some serious gun nuts that do have 1 MOA working versions of their pet sabot loads. Every shooter that has a decent load says the key is tuning barrel harmonics for it.

Alternate calibers: Noreen admits to having working models for 270 Win and 25-06.
For my second upper receiver I can picture that a custom barrel will allow for some much more interesting chamberings
  • 6mm-06 / 6.5mm-06
  • 338-06 A-square
  • 35 Whelen
  • 375 Whelen
  • Any of the Ackley Improved models of chambering
  • 8 X 57 mm Mauser
  • 7 x 57 mm Mauser
  • God only knows what else that has an OAL around 3 - 3.34 inches
  • I'm going to do a lot of measuring but with their report of extra space in the magazine their MIGHT be enough room for some longer beltless magnum cartridges with the right gunsmith. OAL for 338 RUM and 300 RUM are 91mm. Dakotas and others might be a possibility as well. [and a mag mod will have to be done of course]
  • For those magnum cartridges you will obviously have to modify the bolt face from .473 in (12.0 mm) to .534 in (13.6 mm) [and probably more stuff too, not a gunsmith so don't crucify me] . I freely admit this might not be the best idea considering prior comments from Noreen but a man can certainly tinker a bit ....
Wolf extra power springs (like what guys are using for 50 Beowulf and 450 Bushmaster) should help with additional recoil. Experiments to follow obviously.
My Geissele SD3G trigger is sitting on the shelf waiting for this rifle to arrive. Considering how fast guys can dump mags with those things this is some serious firepower. Can you say 3 gun with a 30-06? Should be interesting to say the least ...

In conclusion I think Noreen's got one seriously winning product here. If it's as strong and reliable as I think it is (and they are marketing it as), Noreen Firearms might have just created the 21st century true battle rifle. Or maybe just a 21st century version of the Browning Automatic Rifle.

Either way, we (the customers) WIN.
I also know I'm already abandoning the 5.56 permanently.

Hope this helps,
Brandon

Last edited by centurion20000; March 23, 2013 at 04:25 AM. Reason: updated ideas / features
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Old March 23, 2013, 02:32 AM   #181
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Ok, for those that were interested in a potential 1500 yard 30-06 round.
Was working on some future loads for the BN36 (referenced above) in my QuickLoad and discovered that yes there are 30-06 loads that stay supersonic past 1500 yards.

The trick is to use the extra heavy bullets like the Berger hybrids
Berger makes a 230 grain hybrid bullets with insane G1 BC of .743
(For some more reference material on it : http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/berger230tgt.html )

Not sure about the rules on the recipe (it's 62K psi) so PM me for that if you want it (or load the numbers in QL and run it yourself)

But here's the ballistic chart and drop table. I freely admit that is a steep drop but the math and the round appear to be able to do it.

Range Velo Time Energy Path Path Correction to Correction to Total
city of LOS LOS Elevation for Windage for Drop
Flight Y Z Zeroing Zeroing
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
yd ft/s sec ft-lbs in cm Click MOA Click MOA in
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 0 2456 0.0000 3080 -1.5 0.0 ------ ------ ------ ------ 0.0
| 50 2401 0.0618 2944 +2.7 -0.3 -15.2 -5.23 +0.6 +0.20 0.7
| 100 2347 0.1250 2812 +5.5 -0.4 -15.2 -5.23 +0.5 +0.16 2.9
| 150 2293 0.1896 2685 +6.7 -0.5 -12.3 -4.24 +0.4 +0.13 6.7
M 161 2281 0.2041 2658 +6.7 -0.2 -11.5 -3.97 +0.3 +0.12 7.8
| 200 2240 0.2558 2563 +6.2 -0.5 -8.6 -2.95 +0.3 +0.09 12.2
| 250 2188 0.3236 2444 +4.0 -0.3 -4.4 -1.53 +0.1 +0.05 19.3
X 300 2136 0.3929 2331 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.00 0.0 +0.01 28.3
| 350 2086 0.4640 2221 -5.9 0.3 +4.7 +1.61 -0.1 -0.03 39.1
| 400 2035 0.5368 2116 -13.8 0.8 +9.5 +3.29 -0.2 -0.07 52.0
| 450 1986 0.6114 2014 -23.7 1.4 +14.6 +5.03 -0.3 -0.12 66.9
| 500 1937 0.6879 1917 -35.9 2.1 +19.9 +6.85 -0.5 -0.16 84.0
| 550 1890 0.7663 1823 -50.3 3.0 +25.4 +8.74 -0.6 -0.20 103.4
| 600 1842 0.8467 1733 -67.2 4.0 +31.1 +10.70 -0.7 -0.25 125.3
| 650 1796 0.9291 1647 -86.6 5.1 +37.0 +12.73 -0.9 -0.30 149.7
| 700 1751 1.0137 1565 -108.7 6.4 +43.1 +14.83 -1.0 -0.34 176.7
| 750 1706 1.1005 1487 -133.6 7.9 +49.5 +17.02 -1.1 -0.39 206.6
| 800 1663 1.1896 1412 -161.5 9.5 +56.1 +19.28 -1.3 -0.45 239.5
| 850 1620 1.2810 1340 -192.6 11.3 +62.9 +21.63 -1.5 -0.50 275.5
| 900 1579 1.3748 1273 -226.9 13.3 +70.0 +24.07 -1.6 -0.55 314.8
| 950 1538 1.4711 1208 -264.7 15.4 +77.3 +26.61 -1.8 -0.61 357.5
| 1000 1499 1.5699 1147 -306.1 17.8 +85.0 +29.23 -1.9 -0.67 403.9
| 1050 1461 1.6713 1089 -351.5 20.4 +92.9 +31.96 -2.1 -0.73 454.2
| 1100 1424 1.7754 1035 -400.8 23.3 +101.1 +34.80 -2.3 -0.79 508.5
| 1150 1388 1.8822 983 -454.5 26.3 +109.7 +37.74 -2.5 -0.86 567.2
| 1200 1353 1.9917 935 -512.6 29.6 +118.6 +40.79 -2.7 -0.93 630.3
| 1250 1320 2.1040 890 -575.5 33.2 +127.8 +43.96 -2.9 -1.00 698.1
| 1300 1289 2.2190 848 -643.3 37.0 +137.4 +47.25 -3.1 -1.07 770.9
| 1350 1259 2.3369 809 -716.4 41.1 +147.3 +50.67 -3.3 -1.15 848.9
| 1400 1231 2.4575 773 -794.9 45.5 +157.6 +54.22 -3.6 -1.22 932.4
| 1450 1204 2.5809 740 -879.2 50.3 +168.3 +57.90 -3.8 -1.30 1021.7
| 1500 1179 2.7070 710 -969.5 55.3 +179.4 +61.71 -4.0 -1.39 1116.9
| 1550 1155 2.8358 682 -1066.0 60.6 +190.9 +65.66 -4.3 -1.47 1218.4
| 1600 1134 2.9671 656 -1169.0 66.3 +202.8 +69.76 -4.5 -1.56 1326.4


I will be exploring this one in depth in the future as soon as I get more range time. (Job hunting kinda ate all that up)

Hope this helps,
Brandon
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Old March 23, 2013, 03:10 AM   #182
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Probably the coolest AR in the world. I like it and i dont like EBR's so thats saying something.

you guys dont believe .30-06 is effective to 1500 yards? theres a guy on snipers hide shooting a .308 to 1800+ barring his target is a sheet of plywood its still putting on target. Theres another guy with about 10 grand in his ASICS/reminton 700 '06 straight 26" contour hitting 20x20 steel at 1680 reliably. Check out the tube gun for 1000 yards on 6mmbr.com built off a .30-06 8" at 1000 prone is a pretty good hint
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Old March 23, 2013, 03:44 AM   #183
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Man. That BN27 is damn appealing. I can't wait to read some reviews. If they're successful, this is gonna be the coolest new toy in firearms in the last 25 years, IMO.
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Old March 23, 2013, 08:49 AM   #184
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howzabout a BN 36(30-06) VS NEMO OMEN 300 WIN. MAG i think id take the 300 win mag
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=NOZM5ZwN0kM
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Old March 23, 2013, 05:07 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by ifit View Post
howzabout a BN 36(30-06) VS NEMO OMEN 300 WIN. MAG i think id take the 300 win mag
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=NOZM5ZwN0kM
That music gives the Omen an unfair advantage.
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Old March 23, 2013, 05:13 PM   #186
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guys this is a picture thread... why don't you start a new thread for the 30-06 AR
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Old March 23, 2013, 06:18 PM   #187
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Agreed. Just tried to answer some questions that popped up.
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Old March 24, 2013, 11:53 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by TrailWolf View Post
Nice homage to classic HK photography
Wait, isn't that round in the pistol mag in backwards?

Back to drool-worthy ARs...
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Old March 24, 2013, 12:18 PM   #189
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Wait, isn't that round in the pistol mag in backwards?
I had forgotten all about that. Funny!
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Old March 24, 2013, 02:45 PM   #190
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never said i didn't believe it....just wanted some details.

i am drooling.
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Old April 2, 2013, 12:43 AM   #191
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Old April 2, 2013, 02:19 PM   #192
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Rock River Arms Coyote Carbine; Bushnell Elite 3200 3-10x40 short action/compact Burris P.E.P.R. mount.
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Old April 15, 2013, 06:39 PM   #193
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Very unique set up; is that for competition?
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Old April 15, 2013, 10:21 PM   #194
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Very unique set up; is that for competition?
Nope. I just like the side charger. I am a big AK fan, and i own a few right sided charging rifles, so i figured why change? plus i don't particularly care for the FA on AR's and the shell deflectors.... although the only drawback is that you need a hex wrench to take out the BCG, so I keep one in my stock. I would eventually like to change it to piston driven, but it shoots nice as it is, so really no need to change it. I have a video of me zeroing it @ http://www.youtube.com/theliberator88 it's not an amazing vid, but it just ran smoothly..... but stupid me forgot to grab the brass!
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Old April 16, 2013, 12:07 AM   #195
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Nope. I just like the side charger. I am a big AK fan, and i own a few right sided charging rifles, so i figured why change? plus i don't particularly care for the FA on AR's and the shell deflectors.... although the only drawback is that you need a hex wrench to take out the BCG, so I keep one in my stock. I would eventually like to change it to piston driven, but it shoots nice as it is, so really no need to change it. I have a video of me zeroing it @ http://www.youtube.com/theliberator88 it's not an amazing vid, but it just ran smoothly..... but stupid me forgot to grab the brass!
I'm pretty sure switching to piston drive requires a new bolt carrier group and last I looked there were no side charging compatible gas piston driven BCGs. Given your affinity for the Kalashnikov and the desire for a piston driven AR, why not invest in this:

?

Its the Faxon ARAK upper. Operates exactly like an AKM but built like an AR15 and has a free floating barrel. The upper fits any standard lower. Its about $1200 all told though, which is pretty pricey.
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Old April 16, 2013, 09:58 PM   #196
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That is friggin AMAZING! except I'm married and my gun fund is very limited. That AR build took 8 months due to lack of funds
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Old April 16, 2013, 10:00 PM   #197
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I'm pretty sure switching to piston drive requires a new bolt carrier group and last I looked there were no side charging compatible gas piston driven BCGs.
I was going to use one that only required changing the gas key, so it would've worked.
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Old April 16, 2013, 11:00 PM   #198
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lar pic

this is my rockriver lar8-a4 havent been able to put mor than a 100 round's through it butit work's like a dream
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_1068.JPG (70.9 KB, 28 views)
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Old April 17, 2013, 07:49 PM   #199
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Here's mine.

S&W M&P15 lower, FN A2 upper, 14.5" barrel with an unknown AK-style brake (will get shortened to 10.5" and have KX-3), MagPul MOE handguard/AFG2, Pearce 1911 grip frame, MagPul trigger guard, MPI-tested Detroit Gun Works BCG, CMMG LPK and a DPMS charging handle. Finish is Rust-oleum Dark Taupe with Rust-oleum satin clearcoat, so far it's held up to some abuse and is easy to touch up.

Oh yeah, the BSA red dot will be on a 'Z' mount before the end of the month that should co-witness with my sights.
Erik do you have that registered as a SBR?

As far as I know S&W never made any ar15 pistols (but perhaps I am wrong), and just taking the stock off the buffer tube doesn't count.

I'm sorry if you already know this, but I thought i should point it out.
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Old April 17, 2013, 08:22 PM   #200
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Sounds to me like he bought a stripped lower...which he can make into a pistol if he pleases
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