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Old April 15, 2013, 02:21 PM   #1
blade.22
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.20-.22LR Super Stinger (.22LR Wildcat)

Hi rimfire enthusiast,

Fred Baldwin, 65, lived in Indiana for 45 years. Designing and manufacturing IndyCar racing components. Purchased a CZ 455 America .17 HMR with interchangeable .22 Magnum and .22 Long rifle barrels. Burris Eliminator II laser scope. Manufactured my .20-.22LR Super Stinger bullets and are waiting for .20 caliber barrel from (Green Mountain rifle barrels ) for CZ455. Chamber reamers from (Pacific Tool and Gauge) to chambering the barrels. .20 caliber bullet fits the CCI .22LR stinger brass with .005 necking down. Stinger and hornady 32 grain .204Ruger bullet weighs the same and there is also a 24 grain bullets available. Stinger bullet is only 1/2 full of powder 2.6 grains and 1640 ft./s. Hornady .22 Magnum has 6.2 grains and 2200 ft./s. Hoping .20-.22LR Super Stinger can do 2000 ft./s. Developed shell holder and tooling to do my own bullets manufacturing and will be offering them to anyone who's interested. I am tired of shooting the same old stuff we have for the last 100 years. I spend more money on my wife and I like her to!!!!!

Fred
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Old April 15, 2013, 02:51 PM   #2
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Well darn... you have just reminded me how much I want a 5mm magnum RF. When I glanced at your thumbnails before I read your text I thought you had .300 blackouts posted for some reason, but now I see the rim. Very interesting...
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Old April 15, 2013, 04:45 PM   #3
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Welcome to THR!
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Old April 18, 2013, 11:59 PM   #4
blade.22
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Hi all,
I just completed a book called " The complete book of the .22 " (a guide to the world of the most popular guns) written by Wayne Van Zwoll. He was lucky enough to get a couple of boxes of the first .17 HMR round at the Speer/CCI manufacturing facility. He stated that the CCI .22 WMR cases had been necked down by Hornady, then charged with Hodgdon's LIL'Gun propellant and capped With Hornady .17 Vmax bullet. That is why it was one of my choices for Super Stinger and Hodgdon suggested it. As I said if you have any other ideas please let me know. ????? As I am in the midst of making bullets and waiting for my .20 caliber Chamber Reamer and Barrels for my CZ455 to arrive.What I do best is designed tooling and manufacturing CNC parts. I have chosen to share information with members of the FORUM and at the same time gather information to help develop this into something that we all can benefit from. I know that chamber pressures in the .17 HMR, are 27,000 PSI range. I'm looking at a handheld acoustic high speed DB meter from measuring sound levels. The higher the pressure the higher the sound level. Since my barrel length is the same for all four barrels, 17HMR, .20-.22LR SS, .22LR and .22 WMR. I can get a baseline to measure and calibrate the sound level range. With that I can determine to pressure range! What I'm trying to accomplish in this program is come up with ideas for updating the .22LR bullet similar to what Hornady and CCI did with the hypervelocity .17 Cal. bullets. Since I know what the basic .22 caliber bullet have for powder loads I can extrapolate from that and use that as my starting point without fear of over pressure . Using a bullet with an excellent BC as my starting point will also be beneficial. When it comes to better powder choices if any of you have any ideas I would appreciate any help in that area!!!!! When it comes to priming I do know that CCI and Hornady use the same primer and that CCI actually makes the rimfire bullets for Hornady. CCI's advantages is that they put a lot of primer in the bottom of each case not just in the rim area. I have developed tooling that makes it easy and safe to pull Stinger/Velocitor rimfire bullet. I have pulled apart over a 2000 rounds so far and my tooling works very safely and efficiently. I'm using the powder out of these rounds in the same grain weights as the original bullets to do my initial testing. I don't know what powder CCI uses in the Velocitor/Stinger rounds but I'm hoping to possibly match it performance in the future with the forums members help? After I pull the bullet from the case using a Honady collet cam lock bullet puller. I removed the powder and use modified necking dies to size the neck of the Stinger/Velocitor cases to .20Cal. I load powder then use a Lee dead length bullet seater to seat the bullet to length. The system also requires the use of my extended shell holders. This shell holder puts the necking length at the same height as the Ruger .204 brass case. Thus making Lee standard collet neck sizeing dies and dead length bullet seater dies with minor modifications cost-effective. Hornady and several other die manufactures use compression swaging dies to size their brass. This puts too much load on rimfire cases from a safety standpoint. That is why I say use collet dies only!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Collet's exert very little compression loads!
Here's a picture of my new CZ 455 America Test instrument. I could have bought two rifles for what this Burris Eliminate II laser range finder scope cost me. Now all I have to do is find me a squirrel a quarter-mile away and I can range him and eliminated. I like good test instruments.
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Old April 20, 2013, 05:54 PM   #5
blade.22
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Hi all,
Here's some info I thought you guys might be interested in seeing. This shows the grains of powder used in each bullet And the DB range. Measuring the DB range of the four barrels will give me a good idea of what the pressure in the barrels!

Fred

Table 1. Peak Pressure Levels of Various Firearms
Rifle # Description dB PPL (SLM) Pascals peak (RTA)
1. 7 mm Mouser 154.9 1160
2. .270 cal with BOSS; 130 grain Power Point 164.6 3140
2. .270 cal with BOSS; 150 grain 163.9 3110
2. .270 cal with attachmentóNo BOSS; 130 grain 158.1 1660
2. .270 cal with attachmentóNo BOSS; 150 grain 157.3 -
3. (?) No BOSS, no attachment; 130 grain 157.9 1520
3. (?) No BOSS, no attachment; 150 grain 157.1 1400
4. Browning .22/250 with BOSS; 40 grain 163.1 2960
4. Browning .22/250 with BOSS; 55 grain 162.9 2790
4. Browning .22/250 with coveróNo BOSS; 40 grain 155.3 -
4. Browning .22/250 with coveróNo BOSS; 55 grain 154.1 -
5. .300 Win Mag bolt with coveróNo BOSS; xxx ammo 157.5 1630
5. .300 Win Mag bolt with coveróNo BOSS; high velocity 161.5 2380
5. .300 Win Mag bolt with BOSS; xxx ammo 164.8 3170
5. .300 Win Mag bolt with BOSS; high velocity ammo 165.5+ 3240
6. 7 mm ďPlain JaneĒ; 140 grain 158.3 1660
6. 7 mm ďPlain JaneĒ; 160 grain 157.5 1545
7. 7 mm with BOSS; 140 grain (same as #6 ammo) 163.6 3110
7. 7 mm with BOSS; 160 grain (same as #6 ammo) 163.5 3110
7. 7 mm with coveróNo BOSS; 140 grain (same as #6) 159.5 1880
7. 7 mm with coveróNo BOSS; 160 grain (same as #6) 157.8 1460
8. .300 Win Mag plain barrel; 180 grain 158.3 1650
8. .300 Win Mag plain barrel; 180 grain high velocity 158.8 1780
9. .338 Win with coveróNo BOSS; 210 grain 157.1 1470
9. .338 Win with coveróNo BOSS; 250 grain 156.8 1430
9. .338 Win with coveróNo BOSS; 250 grain high energy 161.5 1530
9. .338 Win with BOSS; 210 grain 164.5 3230
9. .338 Win with BOSS; 250 grain 163.8 3100
9. .338 Win with BOSS; 250 grain high energy 164.5 3200
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Old May 9, 2013, 10:21 PM   #6
blade.22
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.20-.22LR Super Stinger

Called precision Gage today they said my precision reaming tool should be here in about two weeks.

Fred
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Old May 14, 2013, 02:18 PM   #7
blade.22
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Stinger versus Velocitor

Hi all,
Comparing the CCI Stinger versus Velocitor I found something interesting. For the first 25 yards the Stinger it is faster. But it is only 126 ft./s faster. At 100 yards the Velocitor is 18 ft./s faster than the Stinger.From 25 yards to 100 yards the Velocitor has higher energy then Stinger. Even though the Velocitor has a 40 grain bullet and 1.9 grains of powder. The Stinger has a 32 grain bullet and 2.6 grains of powder. Would like to know what power they use in the Velocitor. It seems to look different than they Stinger powder! I will use powder from several of the Velocitor to see if there is a difference for my testing.

Fred


Stinger versus velocitor

Caliber Bullet Weight(gr)
.22LR 32 CPHP Stinger
.22LR 40 CPHP Velocitor

Velocity, ft/sec
Caliber Muzzle 25 50 75 100
.22LR 1640 1452 1292 1162 1066
.22LR 1435 1326 1230 1149 1084

Energy, ft-lbs
Caliber Muzzle 25 50 75 100
.22LR 191 150 119 96 81
.22LR 183 156 134 117 104

Trajectory
Caliber 25 50 75 100
.22LR 0.1 0.7 0.0 -2.3 Stinger
.22LR 0.3 0.9 0.0 -2.5 Velocitor
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Old May 14, 2013, 02:32 PM   #8
backbencher
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Have you reinvented the 5 mm Remington Rimfire Magnum?
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Old May 15, 2013, 08:32 AM   #9
Kernel
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The powders OEM's use aren't the same as what reloaders can buy. The best you can do is experiment with OTC powders, and try to get close.

I think trying to use sound to estimate chamber pressure is a total waste of time.

You should really look at investing in strain-gage equipment to help determine chamber pressures. With the project you have before you, I would say, it is absolutely necessary. I wouldn't image attempting to do what you're trying to do with out it.

http://www.ktgunsmith.com/straingauge.htm

http://www.shootingsoftware.com/pressure.htm
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Jack Yusen, Seaman 1st Class and survivor of Task Unit ďTaffy 3Ē after two days in the water near Samar Inland, Philippines, October 27, 1944.
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Old May 15, 2013, 08:54 AM   #10
Anmut
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Subscribed - I like the idea but I must say, the new round you have created looks like a cartoon bullet!

Keep up the updates!
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Old November 2, 2013, 12:11 AM   #11
blade.22
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.20-.22LR Super Stinger (.22LR Wildcat)

Hi all,
Has been a few months since I've informed you on what's happening with the .20-.22 Super Singer. Two weeks ago I got my barrel from the gunsmith and have put 100 rounds through it with out any mechanical malfunctions. Extremely pleased with everything so far. Just received my lead sled shooting rest and just ordered a Magnetospeed chronograph so I can start my testing. Here are a few pictures in the meantime.

Fred
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Old November 19, 2013, 11:39 AM   #12
blade.22
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Hi all,
It's winter time in Indiana and the only shooting ranges available to me in the 50 yard and 100 yard range unfortunately are outside and only available on the weekends. For the last four weeks ends the weather has been terrible, rainy and windy. So very little testing has been done. Unfortunately I don't have the wide open spaces like you guys do out West!
Have been loading new test rounds for the first opportunity I get to do some shooting. Have loaded rounds in the 2.6, 2.8, 3.0, 3.2 grains of powder. By using the same 2.6 Grain of powder from the original Stinger bullets I can establish a baseline without danger of overloading the round. I am loading with the Hornady .204 Cal. NTX 24 grain and the Vmax 32 grain bullet. See Attachment.

Fred
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Old November 21, 2013, 06:33 PM   #13
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What powder did you finally settle on?
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"We saw this ship come up, it was circling around us, and a guy was standing up on the bridge with a megaphone. And he called out 'Who are you?' and we all yelled out 'Samuel B. Roberts!' He's still circling, so now we're cursing at him. He came back and yelled 'Who won the World Series?' and we all yelled 'SAINT LOUIS CARDINALS!!' And then we could hear the engines stop, and cargo nets were thrown over the side. That's how we were rescued."

Jack Yusen, Seaman 1st Class and survivor of Task Unit ďTaffy 3Ē after two days in the water near Samar Inland, Philippines, October 27, 1944.
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Old February 11, 2014, 07:58 PM   #14
blade.22
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Hi all,

What I do best is Designed Engineering and manufacturing CNC parts. I have chosen to share information with members of the FORUM and at the same time gather information to help develop this into something that we all can benefit from. I know that when it comes to chamber pressures they can get up into the 50,000 PSI range. Maybe you can tell me how one would go about calculating or testing for those types of pressures . What I'm trying to accomplish in this program is come up with ideas for updating the .22LR bullet similar to what Hornady and CCI Did with the hypervelocity .17 Cal. bullets. Since I know what the basic .22 caliber bullet have for powder loads I can extrapolate from that and use that as my starting point without fear of over pressure . Using a bullet with an excellent BC as my starting point will also be beneficial. When it comes to better powder choices if any of you have any ideas I would appreciate any help in that area! When it comes to priming I do know that CCI and Hornady use the same primer and that CCI actually makes all of the rimfire bullets for Hornady. I've pulled apart over a thousands bullets and the primer seems to be identical . CCI's advantages is that they put a lot of primer in the bottom of each case not just in the rim area. Other than the CCI Stinger .705 Length brass case. The CCI Velocitor .610 Length brass case and all the other CCI 22 Long rifle rounds seem to Use the same Brass case and primer. With cost arising and availability on .22 ammunition I am looking for accuracy. I am not going to waste ammunition anymore. The ability to upgrade My ammunition is of interest to me. My CZ455 has Five barrels to choose from and the ability to handle .22LR,.22WMR,.17Mach2,.17HMR, And my .20-.22LR Super Singer Bullets. The last four are all full metal jacket bullets and Long rifle powder ranges from 2.1 grains to 7.5 grains. I think The CZ455 can handle my super stingers 2.1 to 3.1 Grain Powder levels Safely. I have put 200 rounds through the rifle without any problems using 2.6 grains of CCI Stinger powder.

Fred
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Old February 11, 2014, 08:13 PM   #15
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I don't think the issue is will the cz handle the power, it's more of the 22 brass handling the pressure. The 22lr has somewhat of a balloon head and will rupture before more modern solid headed center fire brass.

I like where your going tho!

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Old February 12, 2014, 02:01 AM   #16
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Interesting read.
Like to hear about your Indy Car back ground too if you'd like to share that with us.
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Old February 12, 2014, 08:16 AM   #17
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Quote:
Hoping .20-.22LR Super Stinger can do 2000 ft./s.
What did you wind up getting out of it?
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Old March 3, 2014, 11:47 PM   #18
blade.22
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.20-.22LR Super Stinger

Hi all,
Have assembled 500 rounds of Super Stingers with various loads and powders for testing as soon as the weather breaks. My 50 and 100 yard range have two foot of snow on them. If you guys have any ideas far as testing is concerned I would appreciate them!

Fred
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Old March 28, 2014, 12:25 AM   #19
blade.22
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.20-.22LR Super Stinger

Hi All,

Researching chronographs. I have been looking at a friends Chrony which works fine but when he lose sunlight in the afternoon and the Chrony starts to miss shots, and the set up is a pain. The Magnetospeed V2 looks interesting but mounting to the barrel and it's effect on POI are a deal breaker. I stumbled upon the mylabradar which is coming out in a few months and supposed to come in around the same price as the Magnetospeed so I think I will be holding out till then. Same features as the Magnetospeed not needing light, works in rain and can't shoot it, without the limitations of the Magnetospeed. With the Mylabradar you get Bullet energy's and velocity's in 10 yard increments out to 100 yards. And there or more features to interface with my computer system for generating reports. I feel the system will better generate the information we all want to see.

http://www.mylabradar.com

Fred
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Old March 28, 2014, 07:47 AM   #20
jmorris
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I helped my brother in law with a science project when he was a kid and needed to chronograph at night. This worked fine and I had $20 in it.



You can get an IR screen set for the CED's too.

I first posted about the my lab radar here a few months ago after the SHOT show, while I think I will have one some day (if they wind up working well) to go with my other chronographs it won't be one of the first to roll off the line.
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Old April 4, 2014, 01:42 AM   #21
blade.22
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.20-.22LR Super Stinger

Hi all,

Just got an e-mail from mylabradar saying that I would be one of the first to get one of there labradar sometime next month in May! I hope so. So I can get some work done! Everything else is in place and ready to go.

http://www.mylabradar.com

Fred
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