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Old July 18, 2014, 10:44 AM   #26
george burns
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Any gun that cannot fire all types of ammo, is going to likely develop problems down the road. I would wait for those problems to fully surface prior to carrying if and finding that after 6 months it strips the bullets from the case. I tend to stay away from unproven designs when my life is involved. I don't know what "real life" is going to do to the components of that weapon, Springs, claws etc. In a year we will see. Most writers, and reviewers who tested the gun did not run out and buy one. They all agreed that time will tell. I will wait for some more respected people in the industry put their stamp on it, as I won't have the time or inclination to torture test it myself.
Most also felt that the gun was overpriced and would likely out price itself. How do you clear a jam with that gun? There is not enough street time on it as of now, maybe down the road.
I did get the notification several months ago, having been on the pre sale list, and found it interesting, but that's as far as I would go at this time.
Another "tell" is that most hard to get guns are sold out on Buds, the Bomberg is always available, which means that they aren't selling, probably due to price. Once you break the Glass ceiling at a thousand dollars, and head towards 1,500.00, you are dealing with "gun people" more than the general public. I don't see people who know guns, leaning in this direction yet. You can pick up a Colt defender or a Kimber for less money and have a gun with a track record and a ton of accessories , sights, holsters, grips, lasers, etc.

Last edited by george burns; July 18, 2014 at 11:30 AM.
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Old July 18, 2014, 10:58 AM   #27
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Quote:
And this is the laziest comment when it comes to discussing price. Are you really implying that those who carry a $500 Glock only think the lives of their families are worth $500?

Tell me, NormH3, how much have you spent on all your equipment and training. Is that how much your loved ones' lives are worth?
+1

I think the Boberg is an interesting design, but I can't see it replacing my Glock. It doesn't have near the same record of reliability. I'll give it some time so it can prove itself in the field. But the comment about "how much is your families life worth?" is just silly. As if they'd be any safer by buying the Boberg versus a less expensive but proven design by Glock et al.

Still, it's a nifty design and I think it's a cool gun. I'd love to shoot one some time!
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Old July 18, 2014, 11:06 AM   #28
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I think the Boberg is an interesting design, but I can't see it replacing my Glock. It doesn't have near the same record of reliability. I'll give it some time so it can prove itself in the field. But the comment about "how much is your families life worth?" is just silly. As if they'd be any safer by buying the Boberg versus a less expensive but proven design by Glock et al.
I agree. I would simply replace Glock with XDs in my case.
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Old July 18, 2014, 11:39 AM   #29
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Does the proximity of the trigger guard to the end of the barrel concern anyone? I think kind of weird, but first thought was with a 2 handed grip, under high anxiety circumstances, could a finger be placed perilously close to the business end of the firearm? I guess that would be a reflection of poor training , but,,,
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Old July 18, 2014, 12:15 PM   #30
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Does the proximity of the trigger guard to the end of the barrel concern anyone?
Yes, but

Quote:
I guess that would be a reflection of poor training
You answered your own question.
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Old July 18, 2014, 12:26 PM   #31
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The bullet pull issue kills it for me. As a reloader I appreciate that the 45 acp head spaces on the case mouth. As such you should only be crimping that case so much. Any more than .469" is excessive. Just how much crimp does this gun need?

Any 45acp that can't shoot hardball is junk, it doesn't matter who manufactures it or how much it costs.
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Old July 18, 2014, 02:11 PM   #32
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There's always a cheap old Rohrbaugh 9 for the folks who can't afford a Boberg.

I'd like to thank Mr. Boberg for giving the price conscious among us a big old fat new target to complain about. Seven years of people harping on Rohrbaugh was enough and now it's over. Yay.

John... now I'm the owner of a budget 9mm. Whew. What's that worth?
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Old July 18, 2014, 02:47 PM   #33
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I don't really have a problem with it being ammo-specific. It's a very specific pistol with a very specific purpose. There are other pistols that have been developed around a specific round... Seecamp springs to mind.

Heck, even my .22 conversions have recommended/preferred ammo types and brands. As long as you run the recommended ammo, they run perfectly. Stray from the formula and you start having problems.

This isn't a cheap 1911 or a range toy. I imagine it would be fired pretty infrequently for practice.

Generally I'd prefer a more "general use" handgun that will run on anything I feed it, but in this case, the size limitation and the cool factor give it a pass.

JMNSHO
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Old July 18, 2014, 08:13 PM   #34
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What price would you put on your life or your loved one's?
Lamest statement on gun forums.
People who post this are totally clueless and are just trying to be clever... and fail miserably.
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Old July 19, 2014, 01:29 AM   #35
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http://community.bobergarms.com/m/di...ATopic%3A38678
Literally the first result for "Boberg ammo list." Dozens of ammo types proven suitable, at all price points and weights. Total non-issue, that seems quite overblown.

"There's always a cheap old Rohrbaugh 9 for the folks who can't afford a Boberg"
Funny, Gunbroker has them quite a bit higher; $5k for 5 the "special forces" model (what special ops operating operators operate micro 9s?)

TCB

Last edited by barnbwt; July 19, 2014 at 01:37 AM.
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Old July 19, 2014, 07:17 AM   #36
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Thank You for posting about your experience with the XR45-S, Rembrandt!

I hope that Mr. Boberg has continued great success with his innovative firearms.

I would love to have one, but am one of the many folks that would only be willing to pay about half of the market price (assuming that to be ~$1000).

My XDs45 ($515 OTD) will just have to continue in its current role.
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Old July 19, 2014, 08:50 AM   #37
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I've been carrying ands shooting a Rohrbaugh for three years. Got 600 plus rounds through it with no malfunctions. Like many other small carry guns it is a compromise. I have no problem with changing the spring. The only issue I have had was with VZ grips. Not their fault. There were variations on the size of some of the internal parts that required fitting of the "pocket" inside the right grip panel on some guns.

The only valid complaint from some shooters was about recoil and muzzle blast. That is relative to the shooters experience. It doesn't bother me.

To get back on the subject at hand I have put in my order for a new .45 Boberg. Shot a 9mm and liked the way it shoots. Might even try to get a .460, I've been told it doesn't hurt to shoot but will get your attention.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Cheers,

ts

p.s. I don't use polymer guns.
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Old July 20, 2014, 07:48 AM   #38
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Even though the design of the Boberg is more complex than most pistols, It appears to be a "better mouse trap" for some people , and is selling at the asking price. For a small pocket 9 , I would rather have the much simpler design of the Rohrbaugh.
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Old July 20, 2014, 07:55 AM   #39
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That said, like Kokapelli, my PM9 shoots just fine without any problems from the major ammo companies too.
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Old July 20, 2014, 08:31 AM   #40
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I read about a French watchmaker who is the rage these days, his watches are 2 million dollars each, he makes a cheap line at $690,000.00, he will only make 10 of that model this tear, the tennis player, "Nadal" has one, does that mean his time is more valuable?
A guy I used to know on a watch forum had a great sig line...."Life is too short to wear a cheap watch."
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Old July 20, 2014, 09:57 AM   #41
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...."Life is too short to wear a cheap watch."
I guess the time is better than on a Timex?
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Old July 20, 2014, 10:02 AM   #42
Tirod
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Any gun that cannot fire all types of ammo, is going to likely develop problems down the road.
Which is exactly what has happened to most military designs when the gunsmiths start playing with them, then the public starts loading up whatever cheap junk gets on the market.

This is another one of those sayings that really shouldn't be uttered. There is some truth to it, but not from the assumptions made. Guns are designed largely to fire one round - not 15 or 20. Military guns are designed to fire one specific,carefully controlled, and non optional issue cartridge - maybe two - and they are more alike than different. The military does it that way because the recoil or gas action is tuned specifically to it, and it alone. That makes it highly reliable with that ammo.

Now, drop the grain weight 30% or add that much more power and ANY gun won't be working in it's intended dynamic envelope. When the auto shotgun makers were confronted with this, they had to come up with some ingenious self compensating gas check valves to use every available bit of power from a light bird load, but bleed off the excess from the magnums.

A pistol simply cannot do it. A large pistol can tolerate it more, but, the smaller you make it, the harder it is to keep the action working at the extremes.

So, expecting only the "good" guns to do it is really fantasy. The good guns are the ones tuned to work with the maximum reliability with their round - it's a much safer system with less mean failures per thousand. Forcing the gun to keep cycling with all the wrong ammo is consumerist fantasy. In self defense you don't go out loaded with white box, and training with it is actually a luxury. Nice if you can, but no always feasible. What would be a better solution would be reloading ammo built to full spec so you train the way you fight.

If it's a hard shooter better to get used to it than discover that under stress, with no extensive experience at all, because low powered fodder was cycled thru it 90% of the time.

Beats "Sarge, cross level that ammo and make sure everyone gets a box of that Boxmart ammo, too. I don't want to hear any complaints of favoritism when the next attack starts."

Riiight. Goes to why the military owns their own ammo factory. Not Happening. Same for the LEO's, extensive testing means they get 1 - one - uno type of issue ammo, that's it, it's been vetted and you get used to it and how it handles. Not whatever Purchasing could scrounge up from a trip around the city grabbing any .40 they could find.

"Services were held for the slain LEO today after the major gunfight last week that erupted at the bank. The officers death was forecast by the city when he drew the short straw getting imported Eastern European ammunition from stocks at the beginning of shift. His fellow officers were rumored to have all given him their regards before the gunfight broke out."

If anything, gun writers stack up alternating layers of light and heavy rounds, quality and junk, just to see where the middle ground lays. Poor performance isn't a sudden surprise in the review, it's exactly how it malfunctions that is being researched. That is does is anticipated - note that - it's deliberate and sought after.

The makers tell us the same things. It's the consumer public that is cluelessly demanding that the gun needs to shoot whatever they jam in the magazine. Be advised, anyone who is ordering their men into combat with the risk of death imminent doesn't allow it to happen.

What is your standard?

Anyway, the Boberg is an interest device. I'd like to see it in a .380. It could be an interesting competitor to the Bondhus or Stinger Liberator in the tiny gun class. A rotating barrel, magazine extracting action with no follower in the mag, loaded "backwards," just shows the ingenuity of man in making mechanical devices. Like the pump action AR, you can make a law, but you can't force us to give up.
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Old July 20, 2014, 10:40 AM   #43
george burns
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Well you guys who bought one, please let the rest of us know, how they fair a year from now so that we can decide on weather we want one also.
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Old July 20, 2014, 03:14 PM   #44
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ugly as hell but i've always seen glowing reviews about the 9mm. i would love to shoot one myself at some point
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Old July 20, 2014, 03:33 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by ATLDave
That gun would be the end of my left thumb!
That's my thought too. I use a typical thumbs-forward grip, and with my Shield my left thumb is about 1/4" to 1/2" from the muzzle. Judging from the picture, it looks like my thumb would extend beyond the muzzle of a Boberg. I doubt I'd ever manage to actually shoot my left thumb, but I still don't want my thumb being exposed to muzzle blast.

Otherwise, the Boberg design seems pretty cool to me. I'm not sure it will ever be more than a niche design (to me, the advantage of a shorter gun seems offset by being ammo-sensitive), but it's a fascinating idea and its nice to see a company willing to deviate from the more traditional handgun designs.
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Old July 20, 2014, 03:36 PM   #46
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I looked over like new second hand 9x19 piece at LGS. I would much rather have .45 S&W CS than this contraption. The gun was made to very high standard, but I rather carry something more proven to save my ...
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Old July 20, 2014, 08:30 PM   #47
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I briefly had a XRS-9, but it wouldn't function right, from the day I got it. Had bullets getting pulled, and I'm not talking my plated reloads which Boberg has said not to use, but factory Speer Gold Dots. Although this was not the deal breaker as I could re-crimp my ammunition to handle the recoil yanking effect, but the issue I had was much more of concern to me. That concern was that at times while shooting, I would have a click instead of what should have been a bang. With a double strike capability I'd just pull the trigger again, but there has to be a round in the chamber to fire first. I thought the gun had a failure to feed or failure to strip out anouther round, but that was not the case. For what ever reason the next round up would somehow eject with the spent casing. I contacted Boberg and they sent a shipping tag to check/repair whatever was supposed to be wrong. About 2 weeks later I got it back, but it still wasn't fixed, still throwing out live rounds with empties. So back it goes, but after having a talk with Arne, with me having second thoughts on using this as my primary carry gun, because even if it came back with the issue resolved, in the back of my mind I would still have doubt about the reliabilty of this pistol. Anyway, I was offered a full refund and took it, which I thank him for that as he stands behind his product. My regret is that I wish this pistol had worked out for me as I really liked the look, the feel, and I could shoot it more accurately that any of my small framed pistols. LM
FWIW I have not heard of anyone else that had this issue, so it could have been rare case.
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Old July 20, 2014, 08:43 PM   #48
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Remington's R51 failed it looks like. Boberg's products seem to be holding up well in the market place. The price to me isn't really competitive with other products like Springfield, Ruger, Taurus, and Smith and Wesson.

I'm personally looking at the Bersa BP9cc as my next 9mm pocket pistol.
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Old July 20, 2014, 10:04 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by LightningMan
Had bullets getting pulled, and I'm not talking my plated reloads which Boberg has said not to use, but factory Speer Gold Dots.
Aren't Gold Dots "plated" bullets?
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Old July 20, 2014, 10:25 PM   #50
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I think the word "reloads" was what he was referring to....
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