Quantcast
The Remington R51, Explained - Page 6 - THR
THR  

Go Back   THR > Tools and Technologies > Handguns: Autoloaders

Welcome to THR
You are currently viewing our site as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have, access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!


If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please visit the help section.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 12, 2014, 08:39 PM   #126
JRH6856
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 5, 2011
Location: Flower Mound, TX
Posts: 3,538
Well, the trigger design definitely changed between the prototypes at Gunsite and what showed up at SHOT. And something was going on that made the gun late for SHOT media day. Maybe they discovered a drop safety issue and the skeleton trigger was a quick fix? That could also be part of why it is so poorly made.
__________________
"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" US Constitution, 2A, 1791
“Rights are not supposed to be open to popularity contests." Rachel Maddow, 2013

The only thing you can count on being set in stone is your epitaph...if you're lucky
JRH6856 is offline  
Old May 13, 2014, 02:01 AM   #127
1SOW
Member
 
 
Join Date: October 29, 2007
Location: South Texas
Posts: 4,052
I did finally get a reply from Remington about my returned R51 a little over a week ago.
"Sorry, etc. etc, etc. We expect to return your pistol within 3 weeks"
No word on "what's" being done to it.

When or if it is returned, I'll pass on what they did do. I'll be back here looking for your suggestions on where and what to smooth/polish to improve the performance. The Sloppy trigger concerns me --a lot. There has to be a way to remove some side-to-side play, improve the pin fit and smooth out the pull. Also would like to make the grip safety disengage without having to be so tightly held against the frame---I mean really tight--zero slack.
1SOW is offline  
Old May 13, 2014, 03:21 PM   #128
JRH6856
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 5, 2011
Location: Flower Mound, TX
Posts: 3,538
My grip safety has a little slack. Maybe a 1/16", but at that point if almost jumps the rest of the way tot he frame.
__________________
"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" US Constitution, 2A, 1791
“Rights are not supposed to be open to popularity contests." Rachel Maddow, 2013

The only thing you can count on being set in stone is your epitaph...if you're lucky
JRH6856 is offline  
Old May 14, 2014, 01:01 AM   #129
barnbwt
Member
 
 
Join Date: August 14, 2011
Posts: 3,589
"here has to be a way to remove some side-to-side play, improve the pin fit and smooth out the pull."
Pin fit is an easy fix; new trigger or drill it out and press in a bushing (or file down the bushing to fit like I did). I got mine to ~1/4 the original wiggle using standard 3/32" brass tubing (which is till .003" or so oversize; a 'proper' hole would be half that or less and polished, too).

Smoothing the pull is also pretty straightforward, but I think is limited by the quality/weakness of the internal parts. Polish that stirrup and disconnector all you want; they'll still flex and bind, respectively. The trigger can be lightened greatly, but someone who actually knows what they're doing will have to take care of that for me (at least until Remington starts selling spare parts). I found my sear had a very round nose and very positive engagement; recipe for a break that is heavier and longer than it needs to be (especially since the gun has a trigger safety the high engagement really makes no sense. I think Remington purposely made it thusly so their lax production would not result in guns that fire themselves, or repeatedly with one pull ). Due to the trigger safety design, I would be very reticent to attempt removing the trigger take up*, but its over travel could be tuned down a good bit (I don't think it would be self-disconnecting, though, so you'd be relying on the slide/disconnector interface to work properly more than you are now)

*The safety sear has a longer lever than the sear, so the extra take up is needed to disable it. A redesigned safety sear and stirrup could be made with a short lever so it deactivates with less take up or is timed closer to the sear's release.

The safety backstrap levers have two aluminum ramps that cam the safety block down. The angle of engagement is initially steep and shallows as the lever rotates, which is why the safety force drops as it engages. When fully depressed, the cam actually slips over the block, so very little camming force is delivered to the lever. Unfortunately, the tolerance stackup of the block, frame, lever, and cam seems to be pretty bad, which is why we have guns with too little safety block engagement (1SOW) and extra slop (JRH). Mine has maybe .05" of slack, not even worth mentioning. Seems they run the gambit (which might mean there are guns where the safety is half-off with the lever released ). It'd be nice if this could be adjusted somehow, but I don't see a good way that isn't complicated, like putting steel ramp inserts in the lever that are retained with set screws.

TCB
__________________
"Don't rock the boat; the only way we ever achieve change is by doing absolutely nothing...over a long period of time"
barnbwt is offline  
Old June 21, 2014, 01:28 PM   #130
Frank V
Member
 
 
Join Date: September 27, 2011
Location: S.W. Montana
Posts: 164
barnbwt

I'm coming in a little late. I've kind of been watching the Rem R51. I've read of the returns & wondered if Remington would get it right. They totally screwed up the Marlin & are just now getting that sorted out, well kind of, they goofed up one of the best triggers on a factory rifle the 700, now the R51.
Remington has lost a lot of credability with me. For Auto pistols I'm pretty much a Glock guy, but have been watching as it is a nice compact thin auto. I'm hoping they will get it sorted out.
Thanks for all the time exploring & writing up your findings with the R51.
__________________
U.S.A.
"RIDE FOR THE BRAND OR LEAVE!'
Frank V is offline  
Old June 21, 2014, 08:39 PM   #131
hardluk1
member
 
 
Join Date: March 27, 2009
Location: nc mountains
Posts: 4,405
With remmy doing buy backs and no known fix in the near future along with company moves , it does not look promising to see a basically trouble fee R51 in the future.
hardluk1 is offline  
Old June 21, 2014, 09:16 PM   #132
JRH6856
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 5, 2011
Location: Flower Mound, TX
Posts: 3,538
ROC is doing buy backs, but so far it seems, only upon request. They haven't announced anything...at all. And it isn't the old Remington. Remington Arms disappeared into Freedom Group which seems to have taken the name and hidden the body, since Freedom Group is now Remington Outdoors Corporation (ROC).

I'm just guessing, but with the restructuring, assimilation of acquisitions, and consolidation of facilities, they probably have several product groups competing for limited engineering and manufacturing resources with each product manager lobbying for his product to have priority. They have reorganized themselves into a real mess that is not going to be easy to sort out without casualties.
__________________
"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" US Constitution, 2A, 1791
“Rights are not supposed to be open to popularity contests." Rachel Maddow, 2013

The only thing you can count on being set in stone is your epitaph...if you're lucky
JRH6856 is offline  
Old June 21, 2014, 10:27 PM   #133
1SOW
Member
 
 
Join Date: October 29, 2007
Location: South Texas
Posts: 4,052
Agree with most of the comments above, but to update a little, I posted this:

Well 3 days before, I emailed again asking for an update on the planned fixes for my R51.

Surprise, surprise, I got a response:

Quote:
Good morning, Mr. '1SOW',
The latest update is that your gun is going to be replaced. We are told that it should be coming back to you in about four to six weeks.
We appreciate your patience!

Quote:
We are told that it should be........
Say what? Who told you? I thought YOU were Remington and responsible for this pistol.

Anyway, another month or 6 weeks is now a drop in the bucket.

I am glad it's being replaced, but hope the replacement will run smoothly.
When/if it comes back and it's 'shootable', I will shoot the pee pee out of it ASAP and report the results.

I hope it's been fixed. I like the feel and the new/old action that could be great.
1SOW is offline  
Old June 22, 2014, 12:32 AM   #134
barnbwt
Member
 
 
Join Date: August 14, 2011
Posts: 3,589
The deployment of the R51 being a laugh riot notwithstanding, it doesn't have a whole hell of a lot to do with the function of the firearm, or identifying specific issues pertaining to function so they might be addressed. Let's steer the thread back that way, and leave the other thread to the topic of "whatever happened to the R51?"

"Remington Arms disappeared into Freedom Group which seems to have taken the name and hidden the body, since Freedom Group is now Remington Outdoors Corporation (ROC)."
LOL, Invasion of the Corporate Body Snatchers

TCB
__________________
"Don't rock the boat; the only way we ever achieve change is by doing absolutely nothing...over a long period of time"
barnbwt is offline  
Old June 22, 2014, 10:16 AM   #135
hardluk1
member
 
 
Join Date: March 27, 2009
Location: nc mountains
Posts: 4,405
JRH 3 days ago I was told they was no fix yet. Interesting, 2 CS turds, 2 versions of whats up. Maybe all bull shorts.

Freedom group name is being deee-solved thats for sure. Does not matter there still a turd of a company.
hardluk1 is offline  
Old June 22, 2014, 04:52 PM   #136
Frank V
Member
 
 
Join Date: September 27, 2011
Location: S.W. Montana
Posts: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1SOW View Post
Agree with most of the comments above, but to update a little, I posted this:

Well 3 days before, I emailed again asking for an update on the planned fixes for my R51.

Surprise, surprise, I got a response:






Say what? Who told you? I thought YOU were Remington and responsible for this pistol.

Anyway, another month or 6 weeks is now a drop in the bucket.

I am glad it's being replaced, but hope the replacement will run smoothly.
When/if it comes back and it's 'shootable', I will shoot the pee pee out of it ASAP and report the results.

I hope it's been fixed. I like the feel and the new/old action that could be great.

I'm hoping they get it right for you, the R51 is an interesting looking pistol & would be a good carry gun IF it is 100%
Let's hope.
__________________
U.S.A.
"RIDE FOR THE BRAND OR LEAVE!'
Frank V is offline  
Old July 17, 2014, 11:11 PM   #137
barnbwt
Member
 
 
Join Date: August 14, 2011
Posts: 3,589
Monthly update, I guess...

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...s-r51-website/
It would seem the internetz are aflame with the shocking news that...Remington still hasn't prominently put the R51 up on their webpage! !!! It's being played as Remington 'erasing all traces of the gun,' but of course, those of us who'd been paying attention have been well aware that there was never much effort on Rem's end to market the gun online, going so far that the first warranty returns could not be entered into their systems (the support folks were unaware the guns had shipped ). There was never much of a 'product page,' and this was apparently the case for the 1911 for the first several months of its release. Par for the course for Remington, I guess. Other bloggers are claiming that Remington's silence on the 'new development' indicates something, as though Remington has been vocal on anything at any point in the past (I didn't even know they had a mouth until the recalls ). As before, Remington continues to 'erase history' while their articles/ads praising the gun continue to print; huh.

I haven't heard much from anyone who wasn't waiting on a return/refund, which is funny because there are plenty of functional guns out there being shot. Mine's still rockin' out, and since I've made sure to keep it properly greased every few hundred rounds, no new signs of wear or anything. How're the other fortunate few doing? Still great, or have you fallen out of love with the gun, or have you succumbed to the fear and peer pressure of those around you to get rid of it?

TCB
barnbwt is offline  
Old July 17, 2014, 11:43 PM   #138
C0untZer0
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 7, 2010
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,047
Quote:
It's almost the exact same size as the Ruger LC9, and the engineer from Remington said more calibers are to follow.

So it is kind of funny that Glock comes out with a 380 ACP the size of the LC9, and Remington comes out with a 9mm pistol the size of the LC9.

Remington will probably chamber this in 380 ACP eventually, which would make it the same size as the Glock 42, but with a grip safety and crisp SA trigger. And maybe by then Glock will have a single stack 9mm the size of the LC9?

That's why I say

Remington 1
Glock 0
OK, I was wrong.

A moment of silence please for the R51...
C0untZer0 is offline  
Old July 18, 2014, 12:12 AM   #139
barnbwt
Member
 
 
Join Date: August 14, 2011
Posts: 3,589
Quote:
a moment of silence please for the r51...
Never!

TCB

Last edited by barnbwt; July 18, 2014 at 12:14 AM. Reason: stupid auto-de-capitalizer-hosen-schlefer
barnbwt is offline  
Old July 18, 2014, 05:36 PM   #140
Potatohead
Contributing Member
 
 
Join Date: March 9, 2013
Posts: 4,665
Wow, a nice, well thought out, informative thread. With no chest thumping, name calling, one-upping, or"im smarter than you" posts.
.
Thanks guys! Very refreshing.
__________________
Disclaimer to noobs: Please do not mistake my post count for experience.
Potatohead is offline  
Old July 18, 2014, 07:02 PM   #141
Deltaboy
Member
 
 
Join Date: November 21, 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,774
It is Shame to see a Legendary Firearms Maker go to pot.
__________________
I just an ole sinner saved by Grace and protected by Smith & Wesson.
Deltaboy is offline  
Old July 18, 2014, 07:16 PM   #142
george burns
Member
 
 
Join Date: May 26, 2014
Posts: 505
That's what happens when you try to apply fix after fix instead of just re engineering the problem areas. It almost never works out. Each time you fix one thing, it causes a failure in another area, or compounds the problem, tearing it down and starting from the point where you know everything was working properly , is the only way to fix it.
it sounds like it has turned into a tinkerers dream, there will be any guys who will undoubtedly find all kinds of solutions to the problems for Remington.

Last edited by george burns; July 18, 2014 at 07:25 PM.
george burns is offline  
Old July 18, 2014, 07:59 PM   #143
Gun Master
Member
 
 
Join Date: April 23, 2012
Location: Wolf River Bottoms
Posts: 1,195
R1 Failed The Test - What next ?

What do you guys think the best current replacement (which specific gun), is for what gun tooters were expecting of the flawed R1 ?

Also, do you think the kinks will ever be worked out of the R1 ?

And, finally, do any of you think the R1 is the best thing since sliced bread (or burned toast) ?
Gun Master is offline  
Old July 18, 2014, 10:43 PM   #144
Frank V
Member
 
 
Join Date: September 27, 2011
Location: S.W. Montana
Posts: 164
Gun Master

Ok you asked the best gun to replace the R51, easy, the Glock G19.

Do I think the kinks will ever be worked out of the R51, I hope so, but don't think they will!

Is the R51 the best thing since sliced bread? NOPE in the autoloading pistol world the Glock owns that area!




Let the roasting begin!
__________________
U.S.A.
"RIDE FOR THE BRAND OR LEAVE!'
Frank V is offline  
Old July 19, 2014, 12:47 AM   #145
Gun Master
Member
 
 
Join Date: April 23, 2012
Location: Wolf River Bottoms
Posts: 1,195
Replace the R51 With a Glock 19 ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank V View Post
Gun Master

Ok you asked the best gun to replace the R51, easy, the Glock G19.

Do I think the kinks will ever be worked out of the R51, I hope so, but don't think they will!

Is the R51 the best thing since sliced bread? NOPE in the autoloading pistol world the Glock owns that area!




Let the roasting begin!
Ho! Ho! Ho!

I mean beside the Glock 19.

Last edited by Gun Master; July 19, 2014 at 12:50 AM. Reason: In all due respect, I haven't converted to the Tupperware guns yet. Sorry.....(to be continued).
Gun Master is offline  
Old July 19, 2014, 12:04 PM   #146
4v50 Gary
Moderator
  
 
Join Date: December 20, 2002
Posts: 16,560
Good thread. I saw the R51 at SHOT and thought it was better than a Glock with respects to an arthritic older person who lost the upper body strength to pull back a slide (or work a DA/SA revolver). I hope Remington cures the R51 and puts it back on the market.
__________________
TFL Aluminium. Molon Labe!
4v50 Gary is offline  
Old July 19, 2014, 03:50 PM   #147
Gun Master
Member
 
 
Join Date: April 23, 2012
Location: Wolf River Bottoms
Posts: 1,195
Can the R1 Become Redeemed ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4v50 Gary View Post
Good thread. I saw the R51 at SHOT and thought it was better than a Glock with respects to an arthritic older person who lost the upper body strength to pull back a slide (or work a DA/SA revolver). I hope Remington cures the R51 and puts it back on the market.
I totally agree with everything you said in this posting.

I developed arthritis several years ago, and within the past year it has gotten to be very painful in my hands, especially thumbs. Lots of problems using my hands (besides most joints of my body and back). But, I still like to shoot, and want to be able to defend myself and family.

I positively do want the R51 to become useable and useful to me and others.

Remington, don't drop the ball.
Gun Master is offline  
Old July 19, 2014, 04:04 PM   #148
C0untZer0
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 7, 2010
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,047
It shakes my confidence in Remington though...

People carp about how high priced HK guns are, but I've had my P7M8 since 1985, and never had a problem with it.

It shot flawlessly right out of the box, no break-in period or anything like that. I have never had a failure of any kind with that pistol period - no failure to feed, go into battery, fire, eject or anything like that.
I have a lot of admiration for the engineering that went into that machine and a lot of respect for the high quality of materials and manufacturing as well as the craftsmanship of that gun, and it makes me think highly of other HK products as well.

I don't take comfort in the rumor that Freedom Group / Remington Outdoor Company purchased Rohrbaugh Firearms. I think as long as the Rohrbaugh brothers are actually overseeing the manufacture of the new R9 pistols they should be good, but I'm sure their departure after the transition period won't be publicized and I wonder if Remington has anyone who has the skills to make high-quality firearms.
C0untZer0 is offline  
Old July 20, 2014, 02:19 AM   #149
barnbwt
Member
 
 
Join Date: August 14, 2011
Posts: 3,589
Remington could have charged the moon for the guns, and I don't think it'd have changed the end product. If you can't ream a chamber right, and are willing to push it out the door, past complicit inspectors --there's no saving you, at any price. Remington should have done the re-org before, not after the release, and probably shouldn't have undertaken the project at all. But since they did, why not try to make the best of a bad situation?

TCB
barnbwt is offline  
Old July 22, 2014, 01:53 AM   #150
JRH6856
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 5, 2011
Location: Flower Mound, TX
Posts: 3,538
Well, my R51 is still ROCking along. I haven't reamed the chamber so I still have occasional problems with some rounds failing the plunk test, but as long as the round passes the plunk test it will chamber and if it chambers, there are no problems with the firing cycle.

Early feed problems with one mag were apparently cleared up with an application of dry lube.
__________________
"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" US Constitution, 2A, 1791
“Rights are not supposed to be open to popularity contests." Rachel Maddow, 2013

The only thing you can count on being set in stone is your epitaph...if you're lucky
JRH6856 is offline  
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise.
This site, its contents, Shooting Reviews, and its contents are Copyright (c) 2010-2013 Firearms Forum, Inc.
IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER
Although The High Road has attempted to provide accurate information on the forum, The High Road assumes no responsibility for the accuracy of the information. All information is provided "as is" with all faults without warranty of any kind, either express or implied. Neither The High Road nor any of its directors, members, managers, employees, agents, vendors, or suppliers will be liable for any direct, indirect, general, bodily injury, compensatory, special, punitive, consequential, or incidental damages including, without limitation, lost profits or revenues, costs of replacement goods, loss or damage to data arising out of the use or inability to use this forum or any services associated with this forum, or damages from the use of or reliance on the information present on this forum, even if you have been advised of the possibility of such damages.