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Old July 24, 2014, 10:21 AM   #1
CoalTrain49
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Mom and pop gun dealers

Another thread here made me wonder about this. Of course this is just my opinion but I see gun shows becoming less popular all the time. In this state there is a good chance that a UBC will become law after the next election. A UBC is going to kill the gun shows here. When that happens dealers stand to do a lot more business in sales and transfers. Some dealers prefer to have a lot of stock which gets expensive. I know two dealers who don't have any stock and will just take a deposit and place your order with a distributor. One of them has his business in his house. That's what I call a mom and pop dealer (M&P). I can save about 10% on any new purchase going through a M&P dealer because they don't have a lot of overhead.

Anyone else think these M&P dealers will start popping up in your neighborhood? I already have one about a mile from my house and I live in a rural area.
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Old July 24, 2014, 11:05 AM   #2
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The issue my LGS complains about is not being able to get what they order cause of Academy, Dicks, Gander , etc is sucking up the supply.
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Old July 24, 2014, 11:08 AM   #3
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Not really.

What I would expect is further growth in online sales coupled with a increase in kitchen table FFLs (similar to your M&P, but more so just for transfers). Online stores also have low overhead but also benefit from volume (something a M&P store would not).

Maybe you'd see M&P stores in more rural areas where there are fewer barriers to enter the gun market (zoning, permits, etc...).
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Old July 24, 2014, 11:08 AM   #4
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Dealers with an FFL already have to run a NICS check on every sale. Most of the dealers at gun shows are FFL holders. So a UBC will not affect the dealers only private sales.
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Old July 24, 2014, 11:35 AM   #5
aarondhgraham
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I think you might have the terminology wrong,,,

A Mom & Pop dealer is a storefront business that has an inventory.

A dealer without a storefront and inventory,,,
Is called a "Kitchen Table" business.

I know it's not set in stone,,,
But that's how I see the terminology used most often.

Aarond

.
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Old July 24, 2014, 11:48 AM   #6
CoalTrain49
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Quote:
I think you might have the terminology wrong,,,
A Mom & Pop dealer is a storefront business that has an inventory.

A dealer without a storefront and inventory,,,
Is called a "Kitchen Table" business.

I know it's not set in stone,,,
But that's how I see the terminology used most often.

Aarond
Good point, I've heard "kitchen table" before. I also know a dealer who has a storefront (pawn shop) who has no new stock. What should we call this guy? A pawn shop dealer?
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Old July 24, 2014, 11:57 AM   #7
CoalTrain49
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Dealers with an FFL already have to run a NICS check on every sale. Most of the dealers at gun shows are FFL holders. So a UBC will not affect the dealers only private sales.
If a UBC goes into effect and half of the people that normally sell/buy at gun shows are gone, how does a dealer get any traffic at a show? A dealer I know that normally goes to shows told me that the shows are becoming a waste of time and there is no UBC here yet.
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Old July 24, 2014, 12:00 PM   #8
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The way I see it is, many Mom & Pops store don't maintain a website of their services and wares. Sells are increasingly becoming internet oriented. Whether it's for the search of reviews or actual purchases. Like NoVa said, M&Ps may do more FFL transfers and maybe gunsmithing.

So if the "M&P" stores are to increase, they will have to use the internet to get noticed.

Mouse clicks over personal interaction. But that is just my opinion.
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Old July 24, 2014, 12:08 PM   #9
Sav .250
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Mom and pops keep no inventory. Only buy when someone orders something.

They wouldn`t have as much "buying" power as the big stores.

M& P`s are just the middle man.

The big stores have inventory. You can see, feel, operate what your looking at.
Change your mind if your so inclined on the spot. No money already spent .

Can`t do that at a M& P.
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Old July 24, 2014, 01:03 PM   #10
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MOST OF THE BIG STORES AROUND HERE DON'T CARRY CARTRIDGES OR RELOADING COMPONENTS
Michael MOORE SAW TO THAT.
THE SMALL GUN SHOPS AROUND HERE DO MOST OF THE BUSINESS.
CABELAS IS ABOUT 60 MILES FROM HERE
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Old July 24, 2014, 01:07 PM   #11
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Gun shows have become a waste of time and money . Parking ,Price to get in have all gone up . Last gun show I went to with my family . I was out around 90 bucks by time I got thru door . I remember in my area used to be children and women got in free . Then about everything I found was way over priced .I did find a Colt Commander at a good price. When I told dealer I would take it. He told me no. He decided he would keep it.

My dealer has stopped going . He says not worth the time and trouble any more.
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Old July 24, 2014, 02:53 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoalTrain49 View Post
Another thread here made me wonder about this. Of course this is just my opinion but I see gun shows becoming less popular all the time. In this state there is a good chance that a UBC will become law after the next election. A UBC is going to kill the gun shows here. When that happens dealers stand to do a lot more business in sales and transfers. Some dealers prefer to have a lot of stock which gets expensive. I know two dealers who don't have any stock and will just take a deposit and place your order with a distributor. One of them has his business in his house. That's what I call a mom and pop dealer (M&P). I can save about 10% on any new purchase going through a M&P dealer because they don't have a lot of overhead.



Anyone else think these M&P dealers will start popping up in your neighborhood? I already have one about a mile from my house and I live in a rural area.

Background checks have been required at IL gun shows for years and it certainly didn't kill them. They are more popular than ever.
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Old July 24, 2014, 03:21 PM   #13
CoalTrain49
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Background checks have been required at IL gun shows for years and it certainly didn't kill them. They are more popular than ever.
I don't go to gun shows so I'm asking this question honestly. How does a dealer make a sale if BC comes back as a delay. Just about all of mine come back that way and it's usually several days before I can buy the gun. Are those just lost sales at the shows?
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Old July 24, 2014, 03:42 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoalTrain49 View Post
I don't go to gun shows so I'm asking this question honestly. How does a dealer make a sale if BC comes back as a delay. Just about all of mine come back that way and it's usually several days before I can buy the gun. Are those just lost sales at the shows?
Background checks weren't always "instant". Prior to instant when a dealer sold a gun at a show here in Ohio the seller made arrangements with the buyer to pick up the gun following the 3 day (or whatever) waiting period. Most dealers at shows were within a 50 mile or so radius of the shows. If a deal for pick up couldn't be struck there was no sale.

Ron
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Old July 24, 2014, 07:43 PM   #15
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I certainly hope that UBCs don’t become the norm, but I don’t think it would actually have a lot of effect on gun show sales. I’m sure that there would be a number of FFLs at a show to do the transfer. Just a lot of added hassle and expense for the buyer and seller.

As for the “M&P” FFLs, it may be viable in some areas, but zoning ordinances will block a lot of them. Not all of them “Take orders” for sales. I know of a number of “Garage” FFLs who only sells at gun shows and one that has an inventory of more than 400 guns.
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Old July 24, 2014, 08:00 PM   #16
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Mom and pops keep no inventory. Only buy when someone orders something.
Incorrect. "Mom and Pop" stores are small, will have limited inventory of new guns, some local used guns and small amounts of anything because they do not have the buying power of a Gander or Cabela's.
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Old July 24, 2014, 11:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
aarondhgraham A Mom & Pop dealer is a storefront business that has an inventory.

A dealer without a storefront and inventory,,,
Is called a "Kitchen Table" business.
"Mom & Pop" has traditionally referred to a small family owned business, usually with only one location. They are called "Mom & Pop" because that's usually the only employees.

"Kitchen Table" means a home based business. Whether it has inventory or not.

The terms are not exclusive to the firearms industry.
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Old July 24, 2014, 11:34 PM   #18
Zach S
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This thread reminded me of a post here where a dealer mentioned he'd rather do transfers than sales. Say dealer price on a glock is $460, has a 10% markup and he eats the shipping. He spends $460, and makes about $50 profit.

He makes the same off two $25 transfers, with no upfront cost.

If I had a store of any kind, I'd have my FFL, just to do transfers. No stocked inventory. Sign would say "Zach's Tires and FFL transfers."

On another note, I hate tapatalk and miss my computer.
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Old July 25, 2014, 04:13 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by CoalTrain49 View Post
I don't go to gun shows so I'm asking this question honestly. How does a dealer make a sale if BC comes back as a delay. Just about all of mine come back that way and it's usually several days before I can buy the gun. Are those just lost sales at the shows?

It's treated just like any other transaction. Most dealers are within an hour of the location. There is a 3 day waiting period in IL anyway on handguns. Lots of dealers will do a transfer to another dealer at the show if they are local to you also.

It's really no big deal at all.
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Old July 25, 2014, 10:03 AM   #20
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Getting delayed is one more reason to get a Conceal Carry License. I like the CCL because I don't have to call in a NICS.

I guess you could call me a P because the M has nothing to do with the business. 80%+ of my sales are online and 75% of those sales are used firearms. The distributors cater to the larger stores and give them first dibs on product. I actually told a sales Rep that if he offered me a gun I knew everyone else already had them. This is another reason to handle good used product. I can buy new guns thru Bud's or Gunbroker cheaper than my distributors. I am lucky to make 10% on a new. Usually it is 5%-7%.
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Old July 25, 2014, 10:36 AM   #21
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Getting delayed is one more reason to get a Conceal Carry License. I like the CCL because I don't have to call in a NICS.
Hopefully, if any UBC becomes law here there will be a provision to waive the CPP holders. So far I still have to get the NICS and I usually get delayed (never denied). This is primarily a blue state and so far there have been no efforts by the legislature to make anything easier for the law abiding gun buying public. It's a two way street and I'm voting in Nov.
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Old July 25, 2014, 04:44 PM   #22
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Oregon has universal background checks at all gun shows. They're still going strong. As for kitchen table dealers. When I ran a gunsmithing business out of my home, only two distributors would sell to me. The rest required a place of business separate from my residence. Also, I'm not sure how the ATF feels about giving licenses to kitchen table dealers anymore. All of the ones I know have had their licenses for years. When I applied for mine, they came to my home and inspected my premises and interviewed me to make sure I had legitimate business interests. So it might be difficult to convince them to give an FFL to someone who has no gunsmithing, no stock/inventory, and only wishes to do transfers.
At least that's my $.02 Feel free to take issue with it if you want to give me my $.02 first...
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Old July 25, 2014, 07:46 PM   #23
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MountainBear ........Also, I'm not sure how the ATF feels about giving licenses to kitchen table dealers anymore.
They do it every day.



Quote:
So it might be difficult to convince them to give an FFL to someone who has no gunsmithing, no stock/inventory, and only wishes to do transfers.
Not difficult at all, and actually very easy.


There is no requirement to do gunsmithing, stock inventory or even do X number of transfers.






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Old July 25, 2014, 10:40 PM   #24
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When I was interviewed by ATF I asked the agent about having a storefront. He told me that I would be surprised at how many people worked out of their homes. Several of the wholesale distributors will not sell to you if you don't have a storefront. With E-commerce like it is the distributors are screwing up big time.
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Old July 25, 2014, 10:58 PM   #25
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All they(ATF) care about is logging in and out. Meaning you are actually running a business. Not just buying cheap guns for yourself
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