Request for CSPAN Junkies

Bartholomew Roberts · February 25, 2004, 08:53 AM

Debate on S.659 starts in 30 minutes and the critical cloture vote is 90 minutes away. Would those of you with access to CSPAN be interested in giving the play-by-play in this thread for those of us who don't have access to streaming media?

Diggler · February 25, 2004, 09:58 AM

I second that motion. I'm stuck at work with no tv or radio but I DO HAVE A T-1!!

Bartholomew Roberts · February 25, 2004, 10:16 AM

There is a play by play at ARFCOM, debate was delayed until 9:45am, cloture vote still scheduled for 10:30am (good for us - less time to propose crap amendments)

Antis currently ranting about Columbine etc. (probably a bad sign, shows they aren't worried about time - so either they already have amendments ready to go, they know we won't get cloture vote, or they know they are going to lose and are just posturing for the folks at home).

CZ 75 BD · February 25, 2004, 10:25 AM

is ranting at 09:22 CT.

ill will prevent families of DC snipers to redress... gun shows will forever be exempted.....more regulations for toy guns than real guns.... Americans believe gun mfgs and dealers should be held to account...

Now 5 mins till cloture

CZ 75 BD · February 25, 2004, 10:27 AM

using the last 5 mins to defend the bill. Defend the mfg's who produce the weapons our warriors use in fighting our enemies. Most other products we fuss about were not invented when Constitution was written..guns were

CZ 75 BD · February 25, 2004, 10:31 AM

special interest legislation...turn it down

Now calling roll for cloture

Boats · February 25, 2004, 10:33 AM

Everybody hang tight for another 14 minutes.

Bartholomew Roberts · February 25, 2004, 10:35 AM

CZ75 BD - Massive thanks for reporting live from the scene for us

Diggler · February 25, 2004, 10:42 AM

Anyone want to watch both threads...

http://arfcom.com/forums/topic.html?...=226018&page=7

Bartholomew Roberts · February 25, 2004, 10:49 AM

looking like a blow-out to support cloture; but still voting

**Jeff White** · February 25, 2004, 10:52 AM

Warner just voted for cloture....I thought he sold out.

Jeff

Diggler · February 25, 2004, 10:54 AM

Maybe he got a horse head in his bed last night?

j/k

Thumper · February 25, 2004, 10:54 AM

Warner came around? Nice. Come oooooooooooon SIXTY!!!

7.62FullMetalJacket · February 25, 2004, 10:57 AM

Woo Hoo
BTT

GigaBuist · February 25, 2004, 10:57 AM

They're voting on "cloture" right now which just closes the bill for debate right? THEN there is an immediate vote yay/nay on passage of it, right?

Does an "Aye" vote for cloture generally mean an aye vote for passage or what? I'm a little confused and not watching CSPAN... just reading this thread.

CZ 75 BD · February 25, 2004, 10:59 AM

so far, so good. Cloture brings the bill to the floor and allows 30 hours of debate.

mrtgbnkr · February 25, 2004, 10:59 AM

Cloture passed with 75 votes for!!!!

NRAninja · February 25, 2004, 10:59 AM

75-22 the yeas have it

geekWithA.45 · February 25, 2004, 11:00 AM

http://www.senate.gov/reference/glos...rm/cloture.htm

cloture - The only procedure by which the Senate can vote to place a time limit on consideration of a bill or other matter, and thereby overcome a filibuster. Under the cloture rule (Rule XXII), the Senate may limit consideration of a pending matter to 30 additional hours, but only by vote of three-fifths of the full Senate, normally 60 votes.

Bartholomew Roberts · February 25, 2004, 11:01 AM

Here is a good simple discussion of what cloture does:
http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache...hl=en&ie=UTF-8

If cloture is invoked, there is a 30-hour limit on debate and then there must be a vote. The Senate Chair (Senator Frist) has the power to determine whether amendments are germane to the original bill and can declare them "out of order" and nobody can protest. Also, only amendments filed before cloture was invoked can be considered - however the normal deadline for filing amendments would give them until 1pm today and I'm not sure if this vote would cut off that deadline.

FPrice · February 25, 2004, 11:01 AM

I've been unable to follow the vote....what does this mean now please?

OOPS! Multiple simultanouse posts, got it, thanks.

CZ 75 BD · February 25, 2004, 11:06 AM

now explaining and defending the bill, calling for a vote. Flogging the drunk driver analogy. Citing House passage of similar bill last year by 2 to 1 margin.

Anti-gun activists trying to create new avenues to harass legal business. Bill does not lock the courthouse door, simply helps keep dockets clear.

Thumper · February 25, 2004, 11:09 AM

Hey Bart, do you think that a rider on this would have been the last legitimate chance for an AWB renewal?

Leatherneck · February 25, 2004, 11:11 AM

Cloture by that large a margin is encouraging. Unless there's a cloakroom deal afoot, I think this means that 75 senators are in favor of this bill without amendment. Frist can still screw it up, though. I don't get it with John Warner: yesterday he was in the sty with feinstein; today he votes for cloture. I guess my correspondence this morning scared him witless.

Quote:

Dear Senator Warner:
I am shocked and appalled to hear that you are not only supporting, but
sponsoring renewal of, the Clinton's so-called assault weapons ban. This
demonstrably ineffective legislation will do nothing to reduce crime in the
Old Dominion, and it will at best inconvenience, and at worst imprison,
law-abiding citizens who own or buy a weapon with certain cosmetic features arbitrarily banned.

Senator, I and my wife, along with many of our friends and acquaintances in
Northern Virginia and the Northern Neck have been long-time supporters of
you and the Republican Party in Virginia. If you forsake us now and join the
flaming left wing of the Hollywood elite, that support WILL cease to exist
overnight. I most respectfully ask you to consider seriously the corrosive
effect your misguided support for this sham legislation will have at the
polls. I assure you: my friends and associates do vote and we are watching
your actions on this issue closely.
>
Respectfully Yours,

[Leatherneck]

TC
TFL Survivor

Bartholomew Roberts · February 25, 2004, 11:15 AM

Thumper, short of some schoolyard tragedy, I think this is it for the antis. This was their make or break moment. They can still try but this was their best shot.

Once cloture is invoked, they can't add new amendments to S.1805. However, depending on how you read the rules, they may still have until 1pm today to file any amendments (assuming that the actual vote doesn't happen before then).

When we are past that deadline with no new amendments proposed or the bill passed as-is, we will know for sure whether they broke or not.

February 25, 2004, 08:53 AM	#1
Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus Join Date: December 26, 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 10,994	Request for CSPAN Junkies Debate on S.659 starts in 30 minutes and the critical cloture vote is 90 minutes away. Would those of you with access to CSPAN be interested in giving the play-by-play in this thread for those of us who don't have access to streaming media?

February 25, 2004, 09:58 AM	#2
Diggler Member Join Date: January 21, 2004 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,293	I second that motion. I'm stuck at work with no tv or radio but I DO HAVE A T-1!! __________________ Liberalism is a mental disorder.

February 25, 2004, 10:25 AM	#4
CZ 75 BD Member Join Date: February 7, 2003 Location: The Heart of Dixie Posts: 752	Ted Kennedy... is ranting at 09:22 CT. ill will prevent families of DC snipers to redress... gun shows will forever be exempted.....more regulations for toy guns than real guns.... Americans believe gun mfgs and dealers should be held to account... Now 5 mins till cloture __________________ "In New York city, you can be fined $25 for spitting in the subway. However, you can throw-up for free" ---- Lewis Grizzard Steel City Sport Shooting Association Alabama Gun Collectors Association Airplane Pictures

February 25, 2004, 10:27 AM	#5
CZ 75 BD Member Join Date: February 7, 2003 Location: The Heart of Dixie Posts: 752	Larry Craig ... using the last 5 mins to defend the bill. Defend the mfg's who produce the weapons our warriors use in fighting our enemies. Most other products we fuss about were not invented when Constitution was written..guns were __________________ "In New York city, you can be fined $25 for spitting in the subway. However, you can throw-up for free" ---- Lewis Grizzard Steel City Sport Shooting Association Alabama Gun Collectors Association Airplane Pictures

February 25, 2004, 10:31 AM	#6
CZ 75 BD Member Join Date: February 7, 2003 Location: The Heart of Dixie Posts: 752	Jack Reed special interest legislation...turn it down Now calling roll for cloture __________________ "In New York city, you can be fined $25 for spitting in the subway. However, you can throw-up for free" ---- Lewis Grizzard Steel City Sport Shooting Association Alabama Gun Collectors Association Airplane Pictures

February 25, 2004, 10:16 AM	#3
Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus Join Date: December 26, 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 10,994	There is a play by play at ARFCOM, debate was delayed until 9:45am, cloture vote still scheduled for 10:30am (good for us - less time to propose crap amendments) Antis currently ranting about Columbine etc. (probably a bad sign, shows they aren't worried about time - so either they already have amendments ready to go, they know we won't get cloture vote, or they know they are going to lose and are just posturing for the folks at home).

February 25, 2004, 10:33 AM	#7
Boats member Join Date: December 29, 2002 Location: Oregon Posts: 3,707	Everybody hang tight for another 14 minutes.

February 25, 2004, 10:35 AM	#8
Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus Join Date: December 26, 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 10,994	CZ75 BD - Massive thanks for reporting live from the scene for us

February 25, 2004, 10:42 AM	#9
Diggler Member Join Date: January 21, 2004 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,293	Anyone want to watch both threads... http://arfcom.com/forums/topic.html?...=226018&page=7 __________________ Liberalism is a mental disorder.

February 25, 2004, 10:49 AM	#10
Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus Join Date: December 26, 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 10,994	looking like a blow-out to support cloture; but still voting

February 25, 2004, 10:52 AM	#11
Jeff White Moderator Join Date: December 24, 2002 Location: Alma Illinois Posts: 10,866	Warner just voted for cloture....I thought he sold out. Jeff

February 25, 2004, 10:54 AM	#12
Diggler Member Join Date: January 21, 2004 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,293	Maybe he got a horse head in his bed last night? j/k __________________ Liberalism is a mental disorder.

February 25, 2004, 10:54 AM	#13
Thumper Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Location: Rosenberg, Texas Posts: 2,876	Warner came around? Nice. Come oooooooooooon SIXTY!!! __________________ Ronnie

February 25, 2004, 10:57 AM	#14
7.62FullMetalJacket Member Join Date: September 9, 2003 Location: Cedar City, Utah Posts: 2,993	Woo Hoo BTT __________________ Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. --Jefferson's "Commonplace Book," 1774-1776, quoting from On Crimes and Punishment, by criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1764

February 25, 2004, 10:57 AM	#15
GigaBuist Member Join Date: September 27, 2003 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 2,219	Hangon... procedure impaired here. They're voting on "cloture" right now which just closes the bill for debate right? THEN there is an immediate vote yay/nay on passage of it, right? Does an "Aye" vote for cloture generally mean an aye vote for passage or what? I'm a little confused and not watching CSPAN... just reading this thread.

February 25, 2004, 10:59 AM	#16
CZ 75 BD Member Join Date: February 7, 2003 Location: The Heart of Dixie Posts: 752	75 aye, 22 nay so far, so good. Cloture brings the bill to the floor and allows 30 hours of debate. __________________ "In New York city, you can be fined $25 for spitting in the subway. However, you can throw-up for free" ---- Lewis Grizzard Steel City Sport Shooting Association Alabama Gun Collectors Association Airplane Pictures

February 25, 2004, 10:59 AM	#17
mrtgbnkr Member Join Date: January 17, 2003 Location: Dayton, OH Posts: 263	Cloture passed with 75 votes for!!!! __________________ Pain heals, chicks dig scars...glory lasts forever. My blog: http://www.xanga.com/mrtgbnkr

February 25, 2004, 10:59 AM	#18
NRAninja Member Join Date: January 27, 2004 Location: South Georgia Posts: 41	75-22 the yeas have it

February 25, 2004, 11:00 AM	#19
geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: January 1, 2003 Location: SE PA Posts: 6,907	http://www.senate.gov/reference/glos...rm/cloture.htm cloture - The only procedure by which the Senate can vote to place a time limit on consideration of a bill or other matter, and thereby overcome a filibuster. Under the cloture rule (Rule XXII), the Senate may limit consideration of a pending matter to 30 additional hours, but only by vote of three-fifths of the full Senate, normally 60 votes. __________________ The Second Amendment is an intrinsic, inextricable part of the system of checks and balances upon which our Republic is based. --- Didja ever notice that while psychos might try to kill everyone at the mall or the cafeteria, they never try that nonsense at NRA meetings? --- Fight smart. Not dumb. Smart. --- http://geekWithA45.blogspot.com

February 25, 2004, 11:01 AM	#20
Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus Join Date: December 26, 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 10,994	Here is a good simple discussion of what cloture does: http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache...hl=en&ie=UTF-8 If cloture is invoked, there is a 30-hour limit on debate and then there must be a vote. The Senate Chair (Senator Frist) has the power to determine whether amendments are germane to the original bill and can declare them "out of order" and nobody can protest. Also, only amendments filed before cloture was invoked can be considered - however the normal deadline for filing amendments would give them until 1pm today and I'm not sure if this vote would cut off that deadline.

February 25, 2004, 11:01 AM	#21
FPrice Member Join Date: December 22, 2002 Location: People's Commonwealth of Massachusetts Posts: 3,386	I've been unable to follow the vote....what does this mean now please? OOPS! Multiple simultanouse posts, got it, thanks. __________________ Frosty Proud TFL Alumnus "No matter where you go, there you are." Buckaroo Banzai WWYouD? "Forget about what anyone else would do. Ayoob, Browning, or the Duke aren't gonna be there when it hits the fan for you. What's important in a real-life crisis situation involving you is what YOU do. Not what you do on the range, or on the internet, but what you do when it counts. What Would YOU Do?

February 25, 2004, 11:06 AM	#22
CZ 75 BD Member Join Date: February 7, 2003 Location: The Heart of Dixie Posts: 752	Larry Craig... now explaining and defending the bill, calling for a vote. Flogging the drunk driver analogy. Citing House passage of similar bill last year by 2 to 1 margin. Anti-gun activists trying to create new avenues to harass legal business. Bill does not lock the courthouse door, simply helps keep dockets clear. __________________ "In New York city, you can be fined $25 for spitting in the subway. However, you can throw-up for free" ---- Lewis Grizzard Steel City Sport Shooting Association Alabama Gun Collectors Association Airplane Pictures

February 25, 2004, 11:09 AM	#23
Thumper Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Location: Rosenberg, Texas Posts: 2,876	Hey Bart, do you think that a rider on this would have been the last legitimate chance for an AWB renewal? __________________ Ronnie

February 25, 2004, 11:15 AM	#25
Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus Join Date: December 26, 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 10,994	Thumper, short of some schoolyard tragedy, I think this is it for the antis. This was their make or break moment. They can still try but this was their best shot. Once cloture is invoked, they can't add new amendments to S.1805. However, depending on how you read the rules, they may still have until 1pm today to file any amendments (assuming that the actual vote doesn't happen before then). When we are past that deadline with no new amendments proposed or the bill passed as-is, we will know for sure whether they broke or not.

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