Is anybody using the new .38 Spl 135gr. Speer Gold Dot?

[DMK]

I just bought a couple boxes of these and a couple of the older 125gr. Gold Dot to compare side by side in my new 642 for recoil and accuracy.

I'll tell you what, the HP cavity on the 135gr is huge! This round looks like it has some real potential.

[Obiwan]

I have a couple boxes on the way

[jhiller]

I tested them in my mod 342 pd with very poor results. The biggest problem was that the bullets keyholed or tumbled. The second problem was inaccuracy.
Possibly I had a bad batch. Mine was the first lot sold to the public.
The problem did not occur when using a Mod 649 leading me to believe that the stainless insert barrel of the Ti/Scandium may be the problem. Possibly my particular lot was slightly undersized.
I did test Corbon PowerBall 38cal +p yesterday. It pushes a 100gr bullet at 1300fps with devastating results. It was very accurate as well/ Lots of flash-bang and recoil though.

I think either the PowerBall or 158lswchp +p would be the best snubbie choice

Jim

[DMK]

I tested them in my mod 342 pd with very poor results. The biggest problem was that the bullets keyholed or tumbled. The second problem was inaccuracy.
Possibly I had a bad batch. Mine was the first lot sold to the public.
The problem did not occur when using a Mod 649 leading me to believe that the stainless insert barrel of the Ti/Scandium may be the problem. Possibly my particular lot was slightly undersized.

That's interesting. I'm glad I only bought a few boxes of each.

So am I correct in assuming that the 135gr. shot OK in your 649? How was the accuracy in it?

[jhiller]

The round was fine out of the mod 649. Very accurate !
I suspect that the problem had to do with the insert barrel of the scandium
Jim

[Erich]

I'm sticking with the 158-gr LSWCHP - gotta love that sectional density.

[jhiller]

Eric,
I concur completely ! Lots of folks have been getting dead for many years when shot with 158gr lswchp out of a Snubbie. I doubt anything new can do any better than that.
Cordially,
Jim

[Jim March]

Buffalo Bore is taking orders for a *gaschecked* 38+P 158LSWC-HP hotrodded to 1,000fps from a 2" snubbie. They claim peak pressures are as low as any other +P from some funky powders...

Shipping "this summer".

[Mossyrock]

If they can pull this off, I will shoot up the last 20 rounds of horded 158 gr +p+ LSWCHP Cor-Bons and load up with BBs! OH HAPPY DAY!!

[The Goose]

I put 100 rounds of Speer Gold Dot through my new S&W 342 and aside from a sore hand and wrist it did pretty good. I was shooting at 25' and was shooting at 5.5" Shoot-N-C stick ons. I would shoot in sets of 15, 3 reloads for each target. The first 2 sets were all over the place, but still on the paper. After I got the hang of it I was keeping 15 shots within the stick on and then within about 4" firing quickly. Not great, but I'll take it for such a light little gun. I do not plan on doing a lot of shooting with the 342, but I wanted to get the feel of it. Right now I am using the Gold Dots as my carry ammo, but that could change. To some degree I question the wisdom of carrying a gun that I do not like to shoot, but on the other hand the the little gun is with me all of the time and as someone else said in another post it beats throwing rocks.

[DMK]

Well, I finally got to the range today to try these rounds in my 642. I fired 158gr S&B FMJ, 125gr. +P Gold Dots and these 135gr. +P Gold Dots back to back. Firing @7 and 15 yards, these shot great! POA and POI pretty much matched give or take an inch. I got about 2-3" groups at 7 and 4-5" at 15, but that was probably due to heavy trigger and flinch. The group sizes were consistant across all three rounds. This was my first time out with an airweight snub, obviously I need practice.

Speaking of flinch, I don't think the recoil from any of these rounds was horrendus. The 135gr. was just a little bit sharper than the 125gr +P and the 158gr. wasn't as abrupt, but seemed to have more torque behind it. I shot 20 rounds each of the Gold Dots and 100 rounds of the FMJ. The little wheelgun wasn't any more punishing to shoot than my N frame with full power .357 except that it squirmed a bit with less to hold on to.

This new 135gr. will definately be my carry ammo. If you read about me ending up in a morgue somewhere after a mugging, then you you can assume they didn't work.

[denfoote]

Being somewhat new to the snub revolver scene, I am looking for something to shoot out of my Taurus M605. I currently load the old style Speer Gold Dot in .38spl +P. Is this new stuff supposed to be a quantum leap foward?? Or, am I better off going with .357MAG??
I know the esteemed Mr. March recommends the Gold Dot highly. That's why I carry it!!
Hey, I'm a bottom feeding newbe here!!

[kernal_panic]

Buffalo Bore is taking orders for a *gaschecked* 38+P 158LSWC-HP hotrodded to 1,000fps from a 2" snubbie. They claim peak pressures are as low as any other +P from some funky powders

thats not amazing or undoable. i have been handloading for 10+ years and i finally got a chrono last week. took it out and chronoed some loads last weekend. a .38+p load i did up awhile back using lyman +p load data pushed a 158 grn bullet to 1000 fps from my 686 2.5 inch and 1050 from a 6 inch model 27. i can't comment on pressure as i have no ablity to test it except i was following the book on the powder charge 4.4 grns of bullseye. IIRC.

[Jim March]

First, yes, the current 125grain Gold Dot 38+P has been a good snubbie performer. The 135 is part of a "new wave" of Gold Dots set up for revolvers - with really big JHP cavities. The other one out so far is the 250grain 45LC, which is basically the same as the 135 except "supersized" - same velocity range suggested (800 - 1,000fps) and the JHP cavity profile looks pretty similar.

Speer was probably influenced by the Winchester 130grain Supreme 38+P, which also has a huge cavity and works well in snubbies.

Since the 125 Gold Dot meant for 38+P (note: the Gold Dot 125 meant for 357s has a much smaller cavity!) worked well, it's a pretty good bet the 135 is going to beat it. Speer isn't known for hype - their stuff tends to perform as advertized.

That said, the new gaschecked BB 158+P LSWC-HP is going to be a STRONG contender for the title of "snubbieville king of the hill". Damned if I know which will be better; the BB 158 will almost certainly deliver more peak energy and will be tops as a "woods load" for those limited to 38Spl for some reason...'specially if you fill the 158's nose with JB-Weld as "impromtu hardcast penetrators".

One thing though: recoil on the BB 158s combined with how slick lead is may make them useless in Scandium/Titanium/Aluminum-frame lightweights - betcha they'll pull out of the shells on recoil. The GD 135s were specifically designed to reduce that problem and may prove the top choice for super-light class snubs of 14 - 15oz and below.

[nickler]

Can anyone tell me where I can order a few boxes? Sounds like good stuff!

[DMK]

I got the Gold Dots from www.Natchezss.com

I don't know who sells the Buffulo Bore 158s.

[Jim March]

Buffalo Bore IS the vendor for their stuff. But the new 38+P supermonster stuff isn't shipping until summer.

[Snowdog]

I've got to test the new 135gr Gold Dots in play dough
I've got to test the new 135gr Gold Dots in play dough
I've got to test the new 135gr Gold Dots in play dough
I've got to test the new 135gr Gold Dots in play dough
I've got to test the new 135gr Gold Dots in play dough

As soon as I can pick some up at Rexs, I'll pit them against Winchester's 130gr SXT (which also has a huge hollow cavity). I suspect they may offer similar results to the SXTs minus jacket separation.

[DMK]

As soon as I can pick some up at Rexs, I'll pit them against Winchester's 130gr SXT (which also has a huge hollow cavity). I suspect they may offer similar results to the SXTs minus jacket separation.

I'd love to see the results of that test.

[Jim March]

Do a three-way involving those two and the Winchester 158+P LSWC-HP.

[Snowdog]

Jim,
I did extensive playdough testing of the 158gr SWCHP+P a while back when it was the preferred load for my M85 (besides the 130gr SXT, it still is today).

I lost all my pictures of these tests after a head crash destroyed my hard drive. I remember expansion wasn't anything to write home about after 2 or more layers of denim, but it always expanded some and penetrated deeply from a 2" barrel.

However, I do have a picture of a 158gr Winchester SWCHP+P after a couple layers of denim from my M85 compared to Winchesters 110gr +P+ Ranger after doing the same from a recent test (of the Rangers).

Expansion isn't spectacular after denim, but the SWCHP did significantly out-penetrate the Ranger JHP.

[DMK]

Expansion isn't spectacular after denim, but the SWCHP did significantly out-penetrate the Ranger JHP.

Snowdog, what kind of penetration depth are we talking about here?

[Snowdog]

IIRC, the SWCHP pictured dug in to around 12" of play dough (very respectable for an expanded .38 special in terms of "play dough penetration"), whereas the 110gr made it to about 7". I've found most .38 special JHPs that have expanded penetrate an average of eight to nine inches from my M85 (to about the middle of the second cube of play dough).

Unfortunately, I've also found that most .38 special JHPs will fail to expand at all from a 2" barrel after 4 layers of denim, while exhibiting minimal expansion after 2 layers, so .38 special JHP penetration in play dough is typically very deep when launched from a snub nose.
Though I'm sure some who may witness the expansion and penetration of the SWCHP in play dough would view it as mediocre and boring, I see it as reliable and consistant; it always expands to some degree and always penetrates deeply from a 2" barrel.

I will have to admit that the "damage" to the play dough (specifically the first 6x6" cube) was far more noticeable with the lighter 110gr +P+ than with the 158gr SWCHP.
However, I've received feedback that the pressures generated by Winchester's 110gr +P+ Ranger are a bit too stout for my M85, so I've returned to using Winchester 130gr +P SXTs, which so far appears to be tolerant of clothing even from a 2" barrel.

[DMK]

Though I'm sure some who may witness the expansion and penetration of the SWCHP in play dough would view it as mediocre and boring, I see it as reliable and consistant; it always expands to some degree and always penetrates deeply from a 2" barrel.

I agree. Reliable and consistant are very good traits for SD ammo.

Thanks for the good info Snowdog. Your Playdough tests are very interesting.

[W Turner]

I think the warm loaded BB 158's would be the ticket for the steel j-frames and the 135 gr. Gold Dots would be perfect for the AlTiSc versions.

Also, if BB is getting that kind of velocity out of a 2" bbl., It would probably serve well as a .38+p load to put in .357 revos for home defense.


Mino