Retrieving a JHP from play dough today, it bit me and drew blood...(JHP review)

[Snowdog]

The bullet was the 147gr 9mm Ranger, often overshadowed by its lighter 127gr brother, yet one of the most impressive JHPs I've ever tested of any caliber.
I've tested many different JHPs to observe depth of penetration and degree of expansion, but today I believe I've found what my "bump-in-the-night" gun wishes to be paired with.

The test was a simple: two-layers of denim covering the first of four 6" cubes of play dough at 10', a standard for all my JHP testing.
Three rounds were tested with every round expanding beautifully, apparently unimpeded in the least by the denim, a material that offers a serious challenge to most JHPs.

The depth of penetration was an attribute in my opinion, reaching a maximum depth of 16". This is probably the deepest penetration I've found out of the dozens of different JHP types I've tried.
When I retrieve the first Ranger from the play dough, I fully expected incomplete expansion (if any at all) due to the depth it reached. I found out how wrong I was when I received two painful jabs that broke the skin. What I saw after carefully cleaning the play dough off the slug with warm tap water and a brush made my day. Upon closer examination, the second cube of play dough did have a much larger entrance and exit hole than any FMJ or clogged JHP would make. My haste to retrieve the slug undoubtedly caused me to overlook this.

Those exposed needle-sharp talons were definitely the icing on the cake.
Unlike the .45acp Rangers and 127gr 9mms whose talons I've found primarily remain folded against the petal (and thus serving no function, imaginary or real), the talons of the 147gr actually protrude perpendicular from the shank in a most aggressive way, akin to the old style Black Talons.
The dissected second cube yielded the same pronounced spiral serrations that I found with 230gr .45acp Black Talons. It’s apparent the talons were fully deployed at this point and “cut” the play dough while forcing it aside. This may have no tangible benefits for a defensive JHP, but this unique feature does provide justification for the "Talon" nomenclature.

Since range time has proven that my PT-99 likes this deep penetrating and aggressively expanding round, it has irrefutably earned its place in my home.

Just thought I'd share (in case any of you are tossing around the idea of a subsonic JHP for your 9mm).


Today I can confidently recommend a subsonic 9mm for home defense

[bountyhunter]

Ohhh.... I hope it wasn't one of the HP's that had the flesh eating bacteria I read about in the paper.

If you die, can I have your guns?

[Snowdog]

LOL, the play dough contains so much salt that it would probably kill any bacteria that touched it (play dough on a cut reminds one of its degree of salt content).

But if I do die, the guns will be auctioned in an estate sale to put my German Shepherd through college.

[Thefumegator]

WOW! That does look really nasty. I'm gonna hafta pick some of them up.

Have you tested Hornady's XTP in that caliber? I've really wondered what kind of penetration it gets, but I've never seen a test with them.

Wes

[DigMe]

I've noticed the same folding all the way back of the talons with the .40 caliber 180gr as well (at least I think it was 180gr...it's been a while and I no longer shoot a .40 at this time). Interesting that the talons actually protrude out with the 147gr Ranger and not with the others.

brad cook

[clipse]

sweet!

[Treylis]

Unlike the .45acp Rangers and 127gr 9mms whose talons I've found primarily remain folded against the petal (and thus serving no function, imaginary or real), the talons of the 147gr actually protrude perpendicular from the shank in a most aggressive way, akin to the old style Black Talons.

Hmm, really? All the .45ACP Rangers I've recovered haven't had that petal problem, although admittedly I haven't recovered too many of them.

[Snowdog]

Treylis, I've really had no luck with the .45acp Rangers. They expand just as nice and to a larger diameter than premium SXTs, but those "talons" just don't wan't to participate in anything. The old style Black Talons worked beautifully, however.
If someone were carrying .45acp Rangers, I wouldn't worry too much about it, they still expanded well after 2 layers of denim.


Here's a visual of what I'm talking about.


.45acp: SXT (top) Ranger (left) Black Talon (right) all after 2 layers of denim from a full size Kimber




Thefumegator, I haven't really tested many XTPs except in .44mag, .32acp and .357mag. I've seen ballistic gelatin tests online and in run rags that seem to indicate they penetrate deeply as well. I am uncertain about their ability to expand after clothing, but the XTP is an excellent design. Hornady's certainly one of the best ammunition manufacturers, I doubt they'd market something that doesn't work as intended.

[Treylis]

That's rather interesting. I know they changed the design of the bullet in some ways since the Black Talon days, but the change was supposed to be for the better, hah. If I can find where the hell I put the few I've recovered that did OK and petaled--although admittedly not quite to the jagged extent that the Black Talon has there--I'll post pics.

Actually... are those the regular .45ACP Rangers or the +P variety? Perhaps that's it?

In any case, I'd really love to get some of the old black stuff just because it's non-PC, though. ;-)

[Snowdog]

Treylis, the .45acp Rangers I tested were standard pressure. I was unaware there was a +P version. Perhaps that extra juice would make a difference in the jacket's performance. It just appears the jacket is a bit too thick at the "joint" between the petal and the talon to allow it to protrude... I believe the 127gr +P+ Ranger may have a slightly thicker jacket in that joint area than the much slower 147gr, thus having trouble deploying.


I'm including a picture I took comparing the two (this photo hasn't been reduced in size to allow one to save to their computer and zoom in with their picture viewer if they wish). It is barely perceptible, but it does appear the subsonic’s jacket at that particular area is a bit svelter.
After creating the thread, I fired a 147gr Ranger from my K9 to see what kind of differences a velocity drop would make. Apparently, the drop from a 5" barrel to a 3.5" made a difference in overall diameter, but not in talon deployment.

Anther hypothesis of mine is the possibility the petals on the 127gr are too long and bow back in an arc before the talons could make positive contact with medium and thus remained in their folded position.

Notice in the picture provided that the petals of the 127gr are bowed back in a way that it appears the talons would have restricted contact with the play dough.

Oh well... just my thoughts on the subject.

127gr +P+ (left) compared to 147gr (both fired from my K9)

[tc300mag1]

Good Review Nice pics. Now when i pick up my 9mm ill look for soem when i carry it.

[banzaijohn]

Damn!! If Gumpy or Pokey go beserk you have any ideal cartridge!! Seriously, it looks like it has very nice expansion. I like the 127 Grain +P+ in 9mm and the Ranger 45 ACP in +P myself. They function great and have low flash powder, sealed primers, what more could you ask for.