First look - Speer .38 Special +P 135gr. Gold Dot ammo

Preacherman · March 31, 2004, 09:03 PM

I just received a shipment of the new Speer .38 Special +P 135gr. Gold Dot rounds. These have been discussed here before - it's a load optimised specifically for 2" barreled snub-nose revolvers.

On first inspection, the hollow-point cavity is HUGE by comparison with almost every other .38 Special JHP bullet I've seen. The only one that comes close is the Federal 125gr. Nyclad JHP, and even that isn't as big as this one. For comparison, here's a side-by-side shot of (from left to right) the Winchester 158gr. LSWCHP +P, the Speer 135gr. Gold Dot, and the Winchester 130gr. SXT JHP.

Preacherman · March 31, 2004, 09:06 PM

A close-up of the bullet (sorry I couldn't get a sharper image) shows the construction of the hollow-point more clearly. I think it would take a heck of a lot to clog this bullet and prevent expansion.

Preacherman · March 31, 2004, 09:09 PM

Finally, a shot showing the depth of the hollow-point cavity. I'm very impressed by the visual inspection - and I'm looking forward to a more practical test over the weekend, using water and other media. I'll compare it to the Winchester 130gr. SXT, the "FBI Load" 158gr. LSWCHP, and a couple of others, to see how it performs. However, I think that as of now, I've found my new snubby load...

Jim March · March 31, 2004, 09:22 PM

My.

What's neat is that ONLY the Gold Dot could have possibly been set up with a cavity quite like this. The "walls" of lead are thin as hell, and would "flake off' except that they're strongly bonded to the jacket.

Ever notice how you *never* see fleks of Gold Dot jacket sitting all on their lonesome when bullets and their fragments are photographed post-test? They can't peel apart because the jacket is actually a series of layers on top of the lead...there's no clear demarcation as to where the lead stops and the copper starts.

Jim March · March 31, 2004, 09:31 PM

Here's exactly what I mean:

These are 44Spls but the principle is the same. Source:

http://www.sixgunner.com/miles/mcump/mc15.htm

The PMC is a joke - that small cavity and it's thick walls was meant for healthy 44Mag speeds. At this velocity range it might as well be hardball and is a great example of HORRIBLE overall engineering.

The Winchester is doing OK, but you can see the jacket peeling from the lead. It IS at least working at this speed range.

The Cor-Bon is on the ragged edge of falling completely apart; it would have been fatter in the end had it started with 100 - 200fps less speed

.

The Speer has expanded the fattest yet not flaked, AND the hollowpoint isn't "bottomed out" so it's good for at least another 100fps and probably more. This particular 200grain 44cal "flying ashtray" is the direct ancestor of Preacherman's 135s above.

**JShirley** · March 31, 2004, 09:42 PM

Peter,

Be sure to save a couple to bring down next week, if you can make it.

John

denfoote · April 1, 2004, 08:18 AM

I may have to give these a try as soon as my snub is up and running again.
Have they hit the gun shops yet??
Anybody??

Old Fuff · April 1, 2004, 11:16 AM

Preacherman:

When you test those 135 grain loads please let us know how they shoot point-of-aim/point-of-impact. I presume you may try them in one or more of your Colt's that should be regulated for 158 grain standard LRN. This may or may not make a difference, but it would be interesting to find out.

blckthree · April 7, 2004, 03:00 PM

Preacherman,

Did you have a chance to try out those Gold Dots yet? They sure look good, anxious to see your results.

Mike

Preacherman · April 8, 2004, 01:57 AM

Regrettably, I've been banned from shooting for a couple of weeks... I'm due to have back surgery next week (if we can get the bureaucrats at Workers Comp. to get off their duffs and approve the procedure), and the neurosurgeon reckons that recoil is not a Good Thing for me at the moment. So, they're sitting in the safe, waiting for the medical go-ahead to test them!

SapperLeader · April 8, 2004, 08:26 AM

Sorry to hear about your shooting hiatus, but Im sure youll feel worlds better after the back surgery. My former squad leader just had back surgery, and went from being bed ridden to going hunting, shooting and running again. Good luck, and I look forward to the range report after you heal up !

.. · April 18, 2004, 08:24 PM

Has anybody done any of their own testing on this load?

PS - If anybody is still looking for this stuff PM me, I have 2 extra boxes.

denfoote · April 19, 2004, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Has anybody done any of their own testing on this load?

Only one of the gunshops I have visited have even heard of the stuff, much less have it!!!

I have not been able to find it on line!!
Any help in that direction.
I had heard that Nanchez had it, but I can't find it listed on their web site.
Ammoman , the same, nary a word about it!!
Cheaper than dirt, forgitaboutit!!!
Where can I find this stuff!!!

DBR · April 20, 2004, 01:47 AM

Try Grafs or Natchez

gearbox · April 20, 2004, 06:34 AM

What's the speed (pleaseâ€“in FPS

)?

Jim March · April 20, 2004, 10:59 AM

Apparantly the stuff is pulling about 850 - 875fps from a 2" barrel. And it'll expand starting around 800, going good by 850. NOTE: much of that info on expansion rates at given speeds is manufacturer-supplied test lab data and should be considered preliminary. But with THAT said, Speer is pretty honest about such matters...

Not a huge margin of error but not bad either, at least out to 25yds or so. By 50yds it might lose enough steam to be a problem but then again...snubbies get used at "bad breath range" WAY, way more than at 15yds, never mind more than that.

(We don't know what the top end is but being Gold Dots, they should hold together at least to 1,000fps and probably 1,100ish. They'll come unglued at some point aroung there or faster but still, should be just fine out of 6" or even 8" barrels. The pics Speer supplied of expanded rounds at 850fps (denim over gel) show that while expansion was decent, the hollowpoint cavity hadn't "bottomed out" yet, usually a good sign it'll hang together if driven faster.)

smithandwesson · April 21, 2004, 06:30 PM

hhhhmmmmmm........more new ammo to buy and try out (at the range)...bummer, I hate when that happens

.

BluesBear · April 22, 2004, 09:44 AM

From this thread.

7.62FullMetalJacket · April 22, 2004, 10:31 AM

I just picked up speer GDHP .38+P with the new J-frame. It is 125 grain, not 135 grain. I guess the 135 grain will be getting out to stores soon?

Kestrel · April 23, 2004, 02:11 AM

I didn't know there was a 147gr version of this in .38+P. Anyone know what the muzzle velocity is on it?

Steve

BluesBear · April 23, 2004, 09:55 AM

As far as I know Speer hasn't released any of the 147 grain Gold Dot ammo yet. I think they're still playing catch-up to the demand of the 135gr stuff.

March 31, 2004, 09:22 PM	#4
Jim March Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 8,758	My. What's neat is that ONLY the Gold Dot could have possibly been set up with a cavity quite like this. The "walls" of lead are thin as hell, and would "flake off' except that they're strongly bonded to the jacket. Ever notice how you never see fleks of Gold Dot jacket sitting all on their lonesome when bullets and their fragments are photographed post-test? They can't peel apart because the jacket is actually a series of layers on top of the lead...there's no clear demarcation as to where the lead stops and the copper starts. __________________ Jim March TFL Alumnus Equal Rights for CCW Home Page http://www.equalccw.com Airplane Pictures

March 31, 2004, 09:31 PM	#5
Jim March Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 8,758	Here's exactly what I mean: These are 44Spls but the principle is the same. Source: http://www.sixgunner.com/miles/mcump/mc15.htm The PMC is a joke - that small cavity and it's thick walls was meant for healthy 44Mag speeds. At this velocity range it might as well be hardball and is a great example of HORRIBLE overall engineering. The Winchester is doing OK, but you can see the jacket peeling from the lead. It IS at least working at this speed range. The Cor-Bon is on the ragged edge of falling completely apart; it would have been fatter in the end had it started with 100 - 200fps less speed . The Speer has expanded the fattest yet not flaked, AND the hollowpoint isn't "bottomed out" so it's good for at least another 100fps and probably more. This particular 200grain 44cal "flying ashtray" is the direct ancestor of Preacherman's 135s above. __________________ Jim March TFL Alumnus Equal Rights for CCW Home Page http://www.equalccw.com Airplane Pictures

March 31, 2004, 09:42 PM	#6
JShirley Administrator Join Date: December 20, 2002 Location: VA Posts: 10,607	Peter, Be sure to save a couple to bring down next week, if you can make it. John __________________ Wandering Thoughts Battle Blog The best gun is the gun you are best with..- Ed Ames

April 1, 2004, 08:18 AM	#7
denfoote Member Join Date: December 25, 2002 Location: Near the border of occupied Azlan and Mexico. Posts: 4,485	I may have to give these a try as soon as my snub is up and running again. Have they hit the gun shops yet?? Anybody?? __________________ Our Government is corrupt from the top down to the lowly dogcatcher!!! If it's time to bury 'em, it's time to use 'em!!

April 8, 2004, 01:57 AM	#10
Preacherman Moderator Emeritus Join Date: December 20, 2002 Location: Louisiana, USA Posts: 13,323	Regrettably, I've been banned from shooting for a couple of weeks... I'm due to have back surgery next week (if we can get the bureaucrats at Workers Comp. to get off their duffs and approve the procedure), and the neurosurgeon reckons that recoil is not a Good Thing for me at the moment. So, they're sitting in the safe, waiting for the medical go-ahead to test them! __________________ Proud THR plank-owner Let's put the fun back in dysfunctional! Please visit my blog: http://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/

April 1, 2004, 11:16 AM	#8
Old Fuff Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Location: Arizona Posts: 15,660	Preacherman: When you test those 135 grain loads please let us know how they shoot point-of-aim/point-of-impact. I presume you may try them in one or more of your Colt's that should be regulated for 158 grain standard LRN. This may or may not make a difference, but it would be interesting to find out.

April 7, 2004, 03:00 PM	#9
blckthree Member Join Date: January 29, 2004 Location: Yukon, OK Posts: 32	Preacherman, Did you have a chance to try out those Gold Dots yet? They sure look good, anxious to see your results. Mike

April 8, 2004, 08:26 AM	#11
SapperLeader Member Join Date: March 29, 2003 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,202	Sorry to hear about your shooting hiatus, but Im sure youll feel worlds better after the back surgery. My former squad leader just had back surgery, and went from being bed ridden to going hunting, shooting and running again. Good luck, and I look forward to the range report after you heal up ! __________________ Kyle "Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States when men were free." - Ronald Reagan Remember, if you steal ideas from one person, they call it plagiarism. If you steal from many, it's called research.

April 18, 2004, 08:24 PM	#12
.. Member Join Date: January 25, 2003 Posts: 578	Has anybody done any of their own testing on this load? PS - If anybody is still looking for this stuff PM me, I have 2 extra boxes.

April 20, 2004, 01:47 AM	#14
DBR Member Join Date: December 29, 2002 Location: Vermont Posts: 716	Try Grafs or Natchez

April 20, 2004, 06:34 AM	#15
gearbox Member Join Date: May 25, 2003 Location: CA Posts: 244	What's the speed (pleaseâ€“in FPS )? __________________ •∆•∆•∆•∆• I am, I think.

April 20, 2004, 10:59 AM	#16
Jim March Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 8,758	Apparantly the stuff is pulling about 850 - 875fps from a 2" barrel. And it'll expand starting around 800, going good by 850. NOTE: much of that info on expansion rates at given speeds is manufacturer-supplied test lab data and should be considered preliminary. But with THAT said, Speer is pretty honest about such matters... Not a huge margin of error but not bad either, at least out to 25yds or so. By 50yds it might lose enough steam to be a problem but then again...snubbies get used at "bad breath range" WAY, way more than at 15yds, never mind more than that. (We don't know what the top end is but being Gold Dots, they should hold together at least to 1,000fps and probably 1,100ish. They'll come unglued at some point aroung there or faster but still, should be just fine out of 6" or even 8" barrels. The pics Speer supplied of expanded rounds at 850fps (denim over gel) show that while expansion was decent, the hollowpoint cavity hadn't "bottomed out" yet, usually a good sign it'll hang together if driven faster.) __________________ Jim March TFL Alumnus Equal Rights for CCW Home Page http://www.equalccw.com Airplane Pictures

April 21, 2004, 06:30 PM	#17
smithandwesson Member Join Date: January 12, 2004 Location: Palmer, Alaska Posts: 43	hhhhmmmmmm........more new ammo to buy and try out (at the range)...bummer, I hate when that happens . __________________ â€œItâ€™s a fortunate thing for governments that men donâ€™t think.â€ ~Adolph Hitler The Big Lie technique... "The primitive simplicity of their minds (the masses) rend them more an easy prey to a big lie than a small one, for they themselves often tell little lies but would be ashamed to tell the big ones. ...The victor will never be asked if he told the truth... Success is the sole earthly judge of right and wrong. People will accept a lie if it's big enough and truth is not as important as success." ~Adolph Hitler "Mein Kampf"

April 22, 2004, 09:44 AM	#18
BluesBear member Join Date: July 25, 2003 Location: The Great Pacific NorthWet Posts: 7,673	From this thread.

April 22, 2004, 10:31 AM	#19
7.62FullMetalJacket Member Join Date: September 9, 2003 Location: Cedar City, Utah Posts: 2,998	I just picked up speer GDHP .38+P with the new J-frame. It is 125 grain, not 135 grain. I guess the 135 grain will be getting out to stores soon? __________________ Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. --Jefferson's "Commonplace Book," 1774-1776, quoting from On Crimes and Punishment, by criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1764

April 23, 2004, 02:11 AM	#20
Kestrel Member Join Date: December 26, 2002 Posts: 2,168	I didn't know there was a 147gr version of this in .38+P. Anyone know what the muzzle velocity is on it? Steve

April 23, 2004, 09:55 AM	#21
BluesBear member Join Date: July 25, 2003 Location: The Great Pacific NorthWet Posts: 7,673	As far as I know Speer hasn't released any of the 147 grain Gold Dot ammo yet. I think they're still playing catch-up to the demand of the 135gr stuff.

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