Roughest, toughest, durable rifle ever built?

[armoredman]

I was thinking about the requirements of a new breed of rifle - not the MBR, (main battle rifle), but the MSR,(main survival rifle).
I think the selling points would have to be;
1) Durable as all get out, able to take minimal maintenace without a hitch. ie, if I get dropped into Land of the Lost with this, 1000 rounds, and one little bottle of Break Free, how long will it run?
2) Available - no plasma rifles in the 40 megawatt range.
3) Common parts. Can I get parts for the beast? Springs, etc?
4) Common ammo - as much as I love my Mosins, the ammo is not found at WalMart.
5) Bolt OR semi. Doesn't matter
6) Combat proven. A former, or designed for the military arm, is usually one that has been through some rough trials.
7 Portability. No Solothurns!
8 Magazine fed - box or internal, no single shots.
9 Lethality - able to defeat both man, and most medium and large game.
10 Price - as a state slave, I make squat, so it's gotta be affordable.

Now what equals all these requirements? The rifle is NOT meant for long term combat, but skulking and hunting, staying OUT of combat if possible, but able to handle it should it arise.
I have a few ideas, but am curious what you guys think.....

[critter]

98 Mauser: common, cheap, battle proven-tough as a boot, works in adverse conditions, internal box mag with stripper clip option, strong action, fast as any bolt gun, many replacement parts + add-on's available and servicable in the field, many common calibers available.

My choice. (There are other choices almost as good) YMMV

[Slater]

The old Lee-Enfield was as tough as woodpecker lips, although .303 ammo is probably not widely available.

The SKS and AK-47 are thoroughly battle proven and a lot of then were all-machined.

[cslinger]

Any of your wartime bolt actions especially the Mauser, 1903, Enfield etc.
Any good lever gun.
Any AK or SKS for your semi automatic needs.
Any higher end 870 for your shotgun needs. Police model, MM etc.

Basically any of the above should be able to take a beating and keep on ticking.

[Rupestris]

My choice would be a Winchester 94 or Marlin 336 in .30-30. Preferably with a 16" bbl and some decent iron sights or a good peep sight.
1, Durable. Sure
2, Available
3, plenty of parts "donors" out there. Even aftermarket stuff like youth stocks, sights, synthetic furniture...
4, Where can't you find .30-30 ammo?
5, hmmm... neither bolt or semi, sorry
6, Its been around for over 100 years and still sells, takes game, and defends the homestead.
7, Definately portable
8, yep, it'll do that.
9, affordable! Hows $200 or less sound for a used one in good condition.

Okay, so I only scored 9 out of 10.

[rbernie]

Only one rifle meets all the criteria - the [FONT=Arial Black[/FONT]SKS.[/FONT]. If you're willing to handload, chose the Enfield.

[ARperson]

I would have said any Mauser, but with your ammo availability it pretty much limits your ammo choice to Wal-Mart Availability. Given that, .30-06 can had pretty much anywhere and ammo choice will let you deal with anything that can be encountered in North America.

You Get Mauser reliability, with easily available ammo. Heavy hitting and accurate. I think the sights are better than on the original '03s but that is just me. Minimal parts aids reliabilty. I'd just keep a couple of spare firing pins, a main springs, and a magazine spring.

Since it's survival, and not a hot firefight, I think more time would be spent hunting, or proving to others that coming closer is a bad idea. That gives you great standoff, great game taking, great reliability. I reckon that's what I would take.

[Smoke]

Lever gun.

.45-70
.30-30.
.300 Savage

Any would do nicely.

Smoke

[Roadkill]

I'm for the Marlin 336. If you reload you can put together 110g loads for small varmits or 150g loads that will stop a large deer with one shot. Get a decent well mounted scope and depending on load they are very effective at 150-200 yds. I have my milsurps, MBRs, EBRs, and fun guns but when I'm out to kill something larger than a dog I take the 30-30. Its also very handy in the brush, pulling up a climbing stand, slid into a kayak, or resting by a sleeping bag in a tent. The safety and trigger set up are much better than the Winchester. The round is also easy to reload and they are basically maintenance free. Wipe it down, run a brush and a few patches through the bore, clean out the chamber and its done.

rk

[pcf]

My idea of a "survival rifle" and yours probably differ, but have you thought about a .22LR

1. Durability, it's not easy to break a quality firearm if your not abusive. A 1000 rounds of link 7.62 weighs in at 70lbs, 5.56 is close to 40lbs. Don't have a weight for .22lr but they're not heavy and small in size.
2/3/4. Nothing is more common or available in the US.
5. Available in every shape, size and style
6. Being proven in combat, doesn't translate to ideal on or off the battlefield.
7/8. no problem there
9. Go to an ER and ask how lethal .22lr's are. Whitetail dear and smaller are very doable with a .22
10. at $8.70 for five hundred rounds it doesn't get much cheaper.

[The Grand Inquisitor]

The Kalashnikov design has proven itself as the *most* durable combat rifle in history, and its record in combat situations from Afganistan, to Arctic Russia, to the jungles of Columbia, to the deserts of the Middle East and Africa, to the jungles of South East Asia, and to almost every combat theater since the middle 1950's is beyond question. The AK is not only combat proven, but the design has proven itself to be strong with the fact that the AK internals have influenced new generations of combat rifles from the Galil to the Sig 550/551 series.

I personally really enjoy shooting and collecting AK's, and perhaps my opinions are in favor of the AK, but I think it is difficult for anyone to find a combat rifle (or any rifle for that matter) with a record for rugged durability and effectiveness that exceeds the Kalashnikov design.


Lastly - If I had to pick a single rifle over everything, I would pick an AK-74 chambered in 5.45x39. Not only is the accuracy better with the 74 (I have had great, reliable, accuracy with my 74) but the 5.45 round has a reputation for being a killer - During the War against the Russians, the Mujahedin called the 5.45 round the "poison bullet". The round had a reputation for moving through the body and making non-lethal hits lethal.

[Mike Hull]

Remington, 700P-LTR, in .308. Light, and short enough to be portable, durable finish, synthetic stock, and very accurate.

[ALS]

Easy Remington 700 .308. Needs almost zero maintenance other than cleaning the barrel. Magazine can easily be modifed to hold five rounds. Put on a synthetic stock and bed it and it can easily be 1/2 minute gun. Minimal moving parts that can wear out or break. Battle proven in Iraq by U.S. Army and Marine Snipers.

[landon74]

How about the '03 Springfield, or the M-1 Garand?

Millions of both of them produced
Battle Proven
Ammo is readily available
Ammo works well on most medium to large game/does the trick on bad guys
Durable

[Light Storm]

Bang!
Bang!
Bang!
Bang!
Bang!
Bang!
Bang!
Bang!
Ping!

The m1 garand may be your best choice. You can get a rack grade greek from the CMP for 300 bucks, 30-06 ammo can be found just about anywhere, and can take just about any game in north america. The rifle is very ruged and reliable, and even the rack grade greek rifles are still more accurate than an AK. Just my two cents on the matter.

[CZguy]

As much as I like some of the rifles listed above, within the criteria Armoredman set I'd have to pick the Marlin 336 with a Lyman peep site.

I've had one for 37 years and with minimal maintenance it's indestructible.

[Kaylee]

I second the Mauser '98.. all the better if you can find a second hand bubba-ized one with synthetic stock, aftermarket aperature sights, maybe a .308 olr .30-06 bbl, and halfway decent glass.

If you *gotta* make it a semi on a budget, prolly an SKS just for weight reasons, or a CETME if you must have .308-class rounds.

[Onmilo]

M98 Mauser
1903 Springfield
M1 Garand
M14 Springfield
H&K G3 or HK91
FN-FAL
In that order

My choice would be the H&K G3 for all around use.

[NMshooter]

"Durable as all get out, able to take minimal maintenance without a hitch."

Bolt gun of some sort. The closer you get to a Mauser the better.

Make sure it is in a common caliber.

Both iron sights and a good scope (Leupold for example).

Couple of good handguns too.

Prefer a semi myself, though.

[Cosmoline]

I'd say the Romak-3 is the best choice. 7.62x54R isn't Wal-Mart, but it's pretty easy to find and about the cheapest high-power centerfire ammo around. The rifle uses the AK-47 design and is basically impossible to destroy. It's surprisingly accurate, and very reliable. Its cartridge is potent enough for bear.

But the price is still rather high--in the $700 range

You can always go with its parent, the SAR-1 AK-47 clone. Those are simply awesome, though the cartridge is less potent than the 54R.

Either that or the Mauser 98 or Mosin-Nagant.


The problem with leverguns, esp. Winchesters, is they are quite complex and use an array of springs and levers to feed the cartridge on the elevator, lift it, and then push it into the breach. Marlins are a bit easier to fix, but still prone to failure due to the breakage of tiny parts. I would NOT want to field strip either one. The one time I tore down a '94, it took me three weeks to get it back together

[Lonestar.45]

"3) Common parts. Can I get parts for the beast? Springs, etc?"
"4) Common ammo - as much as I love my Mosins, the ammo is not found at WalMart."

The above statements conflict big time. You can't get springs or parts for ANY rifle at WalMart anyway, who cares if you can find ammo for your gun there or not? I can't find 7.62x39 at WalMart, but I'd say the AK or the SKS would make a fine choice.

That said, I'd take a sporterized Mauser with a synthetic stock rebarreled for 30-06.

[patentmike]

M1917 or 1903A3
As durable as they come, 30.06, good sights, reasonable price.

[CZguy]

I wonder why Wal-Mart dosn't sell 7.62x39

[Vern Humphrey]

Looking at my rack, I see two M1903A3s, an M1 Garand, and a Winchester Model 70 (made in 1939) with a Redfield peep sight snuggled under the ocular bell of the scope.

Any of these would do fine -- and you could take a leaf from Lewis and Clark's book -- they took extra parts for their guns, and were able to keep relatvely fragile flintlocks serviceable under the worst conditions.

[armoredman]

"3) Common parts. Can I get parts for the beast? Springs, etc?"
"4) Common ammo - as much as I love my Mosins, the ammo is not found at WalMart."

The above statements conflict big time. You can't get springs or parts for ANY rifle at WalMart anyway, who cares if you can find ammo for your gun there or not?

I never said i was looking for springs at Wally World. I mentioned ammo due to the fact the only store that sells firearms or ammo is WalMart, about 20 miles away,so I see no conflict in my statement.
I do like the Mosins, and I have two of them now, a short M38, and long 91/30. I was just looking for opinions. The lever rifle was a surprise - having never used one, I didn't even think of one. Good idea, very common, and doesn't throw that "military look" around that some find so offensive. the Cowboy assault carbine....
A Garand would be nice, but I think I'll pick up two of the Yugo SKS's with the tax return - one for me and the wife.
BTW, WalMart down here DOES carry 7.62x39, just not the 7.62x54R....

Thanks for the weigh-in, guys!