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#1 | |
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: December 26, 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 10,451
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12ga shotgun vs. 2 boats of Pirates
I saw this account of a recent piracy incident off the coast of Yemen on another forum and thought it provided a tremendous example of cool thinking and good tactics under stress.
Two sailboats were motoring off the coast of Yemen when they were attacked by pirates in two motorboats. The pirates had automatic weapons and possibly even crew-served weapons and outnumbered the two sailors by at least 4-1 odds. Despite the fact that there was only a single shotgun between both sailboats, the two managed to sink one pirate boat, disable the second and kill at least 2-3 pirates during the encounter. Just goes to show that the most important defensive tool you own is between your ears... Quote:
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Texas gunowners should belong to TSRA. |
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#2 |
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Member
Join Date: December 25, 2002
Posts: 3,741
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Tactics
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A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Milton Friedman |
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#3 |
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Member
Join Date: April 6, 2003
Posts: 553
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Rodney appears to be pretty salty. I wonder why he didn’t have a rifle? I can see that it would have been very heard to hit two guys at 100 feet, while both shooter and target were on rocking and moving boats, with a rifle. It just seems that engaging them with a MBR in 30-06 or 308 at 5 or 600 yards would be the way to go.
On second thought, that may have just encouraged the BG to stand off and use their own long range options, draw them in close and overwhelm them with a sudden and unexpected violent response… yah the old boy did good. Note to self; get your buddy an 870 Edited to add: the US navy needs to disguise the con tower (?) on a submarine to look like a sail boat and go hunting. |
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#4 |
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Member
Join Date: November 5, 2003
Location: Dallas,TX
Posts: 108
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I love stories with a happy ending!
It's always nice to see a story where the good guys come out on top.
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There is no such thing as an ex-Marine...Once a Marine, Always a Marine. Semper Fi! |
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#5 |
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Member
Join Date: July 30, 2003
Location: Ft Belvoir, VA
Posts: 2,683
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Don't use a disguised sub...just use a decent sized pleasure boat (preferably sail, with a nice big diesel engine) manned by some SEALs...with their attendant heavy weapons.
Although most of the SEAL team are probably out hunting terrorists, not pirates, at the moment.
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World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Talk amongst yourselves. Heartless Libertarian |
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#6 | |
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Member
Join Date: December 26, 2002
Location: Idaho
Posts: 3,628
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Quote:
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I am pro-rights (on gun issues). |
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#7 |
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Member
Join Date: July 20, 2004
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 1,289
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My grandfather used to do a good bit of pleasure boating down in Florida, and would join other boaters in his marina for long trips down the west coast from Sarasota over to the Keys or the Bahamas. Now, bear in mind my grandfather, a retired dentist, carried a High Standard derringer in his pocket every day of his life ("because the 2nd Amendment says I can!"), kept a 1911 under the seat of his Cadillac, and still abuses me for carrying a "plastic gun" in a "caliber only good for target practice." Anyways, on his first trip, he took his handgun(s), and the group was harassed by some idiots asking to "rent" their boats, miles from no where in the middle of the Gulf. So, upon return, he bought an M-1 carbine, a Mossberg 12 gauge, and a Smith 686. He rigged a mount for the rifle next to the helm, and bought nylon carry gear for the Smith, so he could wear if even if he was on deck in the rain.
Be prepared is kind of a family tradition...
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"Your job now that you've taken the bench, above all else, is to protect the Constitutional rights of those who appear before you. You do that, and everything else will work out just fine." Chris |
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#8 |
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Member
Join Date: August 6, 2003
Location: Bemidji, MN
Posts: 1,684
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Yarrghhhhh!!!
Man the mossberg!! steady as she goes!! Ramming speed Mr. salty!!! |
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#9 |
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Moderator
Join Date: March 26, 2004
Location: SE NC
Posts: 8,279
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Good on these skippers for working together and thwarting the attack, glad to hear that their damage was limited to jangled nerves and dinged property!
Lots of oceangoing pleasure craft carry shotguns, they can sometimes cause less hassle w/the local authorities than other firearms, are cheap to buy, break down for easier hiding, and can be quite effective at repelling boarders. Not for naught do Remington, Mossberg and Winchester produce "marine" versions of their best selling pumpguns. lpl/nc |
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#10 | |
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Member
Join Date: January 4, 2003
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 2,604
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Quote:
A) familiar with MBR style weapons B) has enough time to practice C) knows he's being approached by pirates at that kind of range. I think the choice of a shottie was perfect. I'd have loaded the first couple as slugs, though, for better range and penetration. However, I'd say he did pretty damn good. Also, a shotgun can fire flares, which is pretty handy onboard a private sailing vessel.
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-JD- Cyclist, gun owner, fly fisherman Purists suck. Just because you prefer wood furniture doesn't mean you should talk down to those who don't. |
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#11 |
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Member
Join Date: December 25, 2002
Posts: 3,741
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I'd agree that 500-600 yards would be tough on a moving target shooting from a moving seacraft. I think his choice of armament was quite good. If I were able to get my hands on an FA AK variant I would rather have that personally.
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A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Milton Friedman |
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#12 |
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Member
Join Date: February 23, 2005
Posts: 1,310
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i read a story very similar to this about a year ago in Robb Report, which is a magazine read primarily by wealthy folks with nice yachts, cars, homes, etc.
similar story except it was one yachtsman and two crewman in the Indian Ocean off the Southern Coast of India near the Maldive Islands. they were sailing when they noticed two ships following them from a distance on their sonar/radar (which one is it?) as they slowed down, the ships would slow down. as they sped up, the ships would speed up. when they changed direction, the ships would change direction too. they knew something was up, especially in this area where piracy is alive and well. good thing they had three different types of weapons on board: long range rifles, scatterguns (shotguns) for short range, and pistols in the event they were boarded. they also had pre-positioned bright lighting on the port and starboard sides of the yacht for (1) night docking and (2) defensive night blinding during darkness. evidently it is harder to board at the bow or stern parts of the ship? sorry im not a boat expert, but i think the motors are a bad place to board and the bow is usually too high to board? anyway they broadcast for assistance and a U.S. Navy vessel reported they could not intervene since it was international waters, they could only respond to rescue them (but not fire upon the hostiles unless fired upon). The U.S. Navy vessels were too far away to get to for cover so they ended up taking the two ships on. They used the lighting to their advantage so they could blind the approaching ships. they used the high powered rifles to hit them from afar and were successful...luckily. the yachtsman reported if they are threatened they go with the lighting if it is at night and shoot with the high powered rifles first to sink the hostile watercraft, disable the engine, or incapacitate the hostiles. if this does not work at a long range, they switch to shotguns to blast the boats before they can board. if they are boarded then they also use pistols. pretty good combination if you ask me. i guess when im rich and i buy a yacht ill make sure i go sailing with my M249SAW. that ought to take out a boat pretty quick. nothing like belt fed to disable something!
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Spreadfire Arms, Austin, TX (FFL/SOT) Blackwater USA Executive Protection School Graduate Bushmaster/Glock/Mossberg/Remington/Sig Sauer Armorer Texas CHL/PSB Level III/TCLEOSE Firearms Instructor ASP Baton & Handcuffing Instructor NRA Law Enforcement Select Fire Instructor Def-Tec Less Lethal Instructor ALERRT Low Light Instructor Last edited by Spreadfire Arms; March 18, 2005 at 04:35 PM. |
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#13 |
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Member
Join Date: January 24, 2003
Location: Texas boy on loan to the USN
Posts: 234
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What was it that Sherrif Brody said in Jaws? "I think we need a bigger boat."? Well, see if this fits the bill!
![]() Go Navy!
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"Circular error probable zero, impact with high order detonation, have a nice day." |
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#14 |
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Member
Join Date: January 4, 2003
Location: Fairbanks, AK
Posts: 583
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FWIW, Gandalf is a steel hulled boat. Made me think about the choice of hull materials on a circumnavigation. Nice to have the ability to ram wood and plastic boats w/o sinking yourself!
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#15 |
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Member
Join Date: December 22, 2004
Location: upstate NY go to school in WNY
Posts: 2,141
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i wonder how many rounds he fired. . . thats always my biggest concern. if it hits the fan will i have enough ammo on me. ..
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#16 |
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Member
Join Date: March 9, 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,137
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Hmmm... maybee its time to armor up the old fishing boat....
Great story. i love to hear the ones where the ad guys get whats coming to them. if my boat were atualy big enough to sail out on open water, id but him a new shotty. Maybee a Saiga 12 or a Mossy with a heat sield and riot tube/drum upgrade. i was under the asumption that federal law prohibited mounting weapons ona vehicle? ut i suppose that wouldnt matter in international waters... |
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#17 |
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Member
Join Date: December 24, 2002
Location: North Central Florida
Posts: 3,428
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I am glad it worked out for the 'good guys', but I still think its a stupid place to be pleasure boating. Almost always, these things work out in the bad guys favor. Down here in Miami, its a common thing, for folks out 'yachting' down to the Islands to just dissappear for ever.
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#18 |
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Member
Join Date: February 23, 2005
Location: Los Estados Unidos
Posts: 870
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Any confirmation this really happened? Only thing found with a quick web search was repeats of the same story.
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#19 |
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Member
Join Date: January 4, 2003
Location: Fairbanks, AK
Posts: 583
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Yes, it happened.
Rodney Nowlin is my coworker's brother. My coworker's daughter was on board Mahdi when they were attacked. |
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#20 |
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Member
Join Date: February 14, 2004
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,140
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Anyone remember when a bunch genius pirates tried to attack a Navy fuel ship a few years back?
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/m...ack/index.html |
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#21 |
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Member
Join Date: September 24, 2004
Location: southern NH
Posts: 726
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Glad these folks made it through okay, and yeah, tactics and mindset are where it's at.
In my experience, ex-navy people who become small-boat offshore sailors tend to be a little more defensive-minded than "yachties" (although I may be biased because I'm ex-navy and someday am going to get my own boat). I have no intention of going to sea without a couple shotguns, a good long-range hunting rifle, and several 1911s at least three of which will be hidden/stashed around the boat. If I can get a few grenades so much the better. Now if I was going to be sailing in the lower Caribbean, Red Sea, or anywhere in the southwest Pacific I'd be arming for real. I carry a concealed firearm because it might be 15 minutes before the cops arrive. If it is likely to be at least 15 hours, I'm going to be my own little floating arsenal. By the way, it is radar above the surface of the water, sonar below the surface.
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Putting all of these textual elements together, we find that they guarantee the individual right to possess and carry weapons in case of confrontation. - Justice Scalia, DC v. Heller . New state motto for New Hampshire: "Live Free, Die, or Move Back to Massachusetts" |
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#22 |
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Member
Join Date: December 24, 2002
Location: Lafayette, Indiana--meanwhile, back in the Wabash Valley . . . zzzzz.
Posts: 17,898
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I'm with Mannlicher. Who the devil goes out adventuring off the coast of Yemen?
Shotgun is a good choice for a boat. However, I like to have something heavy around, like a BAR in .338 or a .416 bolt gun and a bunch of buddies around with rifles firing AP ammo.
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#23 |
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Member
Join Date: December 25, 2002
Location: SE PA/ El Cid (SC)
Posts: 711
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Ballistics question...
assuming you and your pursuers were moving at an equal speed in a stern chase (i.e. rate of closure = 0), would you have to lead the target at all? Would you correct for wind as a result of motion the same way you correct for wind as weather?
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"Until I die or drop...'" USMC Rifle EXPERT Never Forgive.Never Forget.9.11.01Never Again. |
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#24 |
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Member
Join Date: February 29, 2004
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 2,189
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as old and outdated as they seem, the trusty 12ga shotgun always seems to prove its worth.
My choice for a boat would be a Mosin-Nagant, a pump action 12ga and a handgun with a big magazine. I can lay down long range firepower with easily obtainable AP rounds. The shotgun gives me devastating power up close and the pistol allows me to defend should the above weapons allow a few badguys past. The Mosin Nagant would also be an M44 so as to have a bayonet at hand. I think a good knife on the belt would be helpful too.
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Americans sure do love their freedoms...too bad we have to go to other countries to experience them. Click here to see who's got your freedoms. goodbye Libertarian Party. I don't need you pushing a neo-con for president. |
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#25 |
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member
Join Date: November 8, 2004
Location: Spring Hill, Florida
Posts: 4,440
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Id just mount a ma deuce or a twin-linked mg42 (anti-air) with every 10th round a tracer. If someone tries to rob you, you just send a few thousand beefy AP rounds their direction and turn their little boats into collanders.
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