Kel-Tec Sub 2000 vs Hi-Point Carbine or other

[Woody_in_MN]

I'm looking for a carbine for home defense, and also some plunking. I don't hunt, so I ruled out most powerful rifle calibers, and ruled out a shotgun, because I don't want to leave a gun loaded.

Anyone have experience with both the Kel-Tec sub 2000 carbine in 9mm or 40sw , and the Hi-Point carbine in the same calibers. Which is more dependable? The Kel-Tec folds, but that is not a big selling point for me. The Kel-Tec pistols I've seen look like toys - are the carbines better quality? More substanial?

Obvioulsy the Hi-Point is less expensive. I think I can buy after market mags that would give me 15 rounds on either carbine. (Stock on both is 10 rounds.)

Thanks in advance.

- W

[Preacherman]

I've shot both, and own a Kel-Tec in .40 S&W. Both work well, and are very functional. You can't get hi-caps for the Hi-Point (at least not in 9mm), but you can for the Kel-Tec (mine takes Glock mags). The Hi-Point may look fugly, but is very serviceable, and is also much cheaper - you can buy two of them for the price of one Kel-Tec, if you shop around a bit. Both seem roughly equal in accuracy, although I haven't bench-tested them side-by-side.

[jem375]

You can try mine out at the local gun range, it's been sitting in my safe for over a year.

[esldude]

No experience with the Hi Point, but have a Ruger PC9 and Keltec Sub2000.

The Keltec will perform better than you think from looking at them. Both the PC9 and Sub2K function well. The PC9 seems a good deal more rugged, though I have not had a problem with the Keltec. Indoors, the PC9 is handy being 35 inches long. But the Sub2K is a few inches shorter, and seems almost twice as handy indoors. The Keltec has been a bit more accurate than the PC9. Neither are tack drivers, but both can easily put repeated shots into a pie plate at 100 yards off hand.

Either will do what you need. You might simply feel better about the PC9. Though it costs more. I also have them for the reasons you mention.

[chris in va]

I have the HiPoint 9mm. It's fantastic and my favorite shooter. Slap a red dot on there and the fun factor goes through the roof.

Now I bought one of those 15rd mags from a gunshow once, and it never fed right at all. The factory rep at HiPoint said to contact ProMag and have them send me another one, because apparently they don't work right. The stock 10 rounder is flawless in function. Frankly it's my most dependable firearm I own, save for my NEF Pardner 20ga

You may want to wait for the 45 cal coming out in January/february timeframe

Oh, and is it crude? You bet. No taking it apart, just hose the internals down with CLP and call it good. I guess what suprises me the most is how a company can take some cheap metal and plastic, then make a dead-nuts reliable/ergonomic firearm without costing more than $200. According to the rep I spoke with, during testing with the barrels they ran over 6000 consecutive rounds through the gun without cleaning, and it still fired just fine. He even said a prairie dog was taken with one of their .40's at 230 yards.

So basically if you don't need it to fold like the KelTec, the HiPoint would work fine.

[browningguy]

I went with a KelTec with the Glock 17 Mag well just for the 31 round mags. Never shot a Hi Point but all the reports indicate they are reliable and accurate enough.

[kngflp]

Just curious, what is thought to be the best round out of a carbine length barrel? 9mm, .40, or .45. I guess keeping home defense in mind.

[22/22mag]

My High Point 9mm rifle shoots+ shoots.My Kel-Tec 9mm would not shoot,traded it.

[trickyasafox]

i would definatly go for the kel-tec just for the availability of mags and such

[esldude]

You really don't gain alot of velocity in 9mm, 40 or 45 in these carbines. Not like lever action 357 or 44 magnums. You gain most in the lighter bullets in each caliber. And that is where you probably least need it. I would say go with the heavier bullets in each caliber. Then again, I say that with the pistols too.

BTW, the suggestion of a red dot is right on. Just right for this type of firearm. Great for use at night, and the speediest on target you can get. Also allows sighting accurately without exactly positioning your eye. I have one on my PC9. That is one minus to the Keltec. Is possible to put a red dot on the Keltec, but not simple.

[dracphelan]

I will say this, Hi-Point customer service is great. I bought a Hi-Point carbine off of GunBroker for $60. The front sight was broken and it would not fire. Hi-Point completely rebuilt the carbine for no charge. When it came back, it even had new furniture.

[Dave Markowitz]

Another option would be a used Marlin Camp Carbine in 9mm or .45. The Camp 9 uses S&W 59xx magazines, while the .45 uses M1911 mags, both types of mags are plentiful and cheap. My Camp .45 has been very accurate and reliable. On the .45 I do recommend replacing the stock recoil spring with a Wolf 21# spring (about $10), because the factory spring is too light at only 11#.

[Woody_in_MN]

Lever action is not an option for the same reason as shot gun - I don't want to leave a loaded gun in my house - even with a safety on. If I did I would get a used 12 gauge pump, cut the barrel down to shortest legal limit, and call it a day.

That's interesting about the 230 yd hit. Kel Tec says at 150 yds - game over.

Also interesting about the 45 coming out. I went to my 2005 GUN DIGEST and compared 9mm + load, against 40SW. Not THAT much difference in balastics - except the 40 sw is typicially a larger/heavier bullet. 45 is not cheap to shoot, but is often thought of to be the ideal defense load. 9mm is dirt cheap to shoot - then with availability of hollow-point + loads makes 9mm hard to resist.

As a side note - my Dad who passed away last week, and shot many guns up until the last couple couple weeks of his life, beamed about how much fun this funny looking poly 9mm pistol was to shoot. He told me how he sent the gun to the factory, and the basicially they remanufactured it for free. Well the pistol was the Hi-Point C9. I shot it yesterday. Its not my favorite pistol, but it is fairly accurate, and atleast as good looking as a glock. I mean what's not to like.

- w

[Woody_in_MN]

Is this the clip that does not feed well?

http://www.webspawner.com/users/chea...iflemagsf.html

(Look toward bottom of page.)

- w

[Felonious Monk]

Preacherman-- you CAN get 15rd. mags for the Hi-Point carbines.
Here is a link: http://ammoclip.com/Numbers/995__carbine.htm

Woody-- if you don't like Kel-Tec handguns because of the Tupperware feel, you may not like the Sub either.

The KelTec comes configured to accept either Glock, SW, and Beretta hi-cap (up to 32rds) mags. Kind of nice, IMO.

[Tropical Z]

Even though I am a Hi-Point fan,when I wanted a 9x19 carbine I got a Kel-Tec.Both are good guns.

[strange246]

I have thousands of rounds through my Hi-Point carbine, I have a small 4x scope on it and I'm dying to get one in .45!

[MachIVshooter]

The beauty of the Kel-Tec is that you can buy one to accept Beretta mags, S&W mags, Glock mags, etc., depending on which-if any-of those handguns you may have. This makes for excellent compatibility. I do not have the KT or the Hi-point; my 9mm carbine is a Beretta Storm (which I love). 30+ round mags are available for Beretta and Glock, and I think S&W as well. pitol caliber autoloading carbines are kinda boring with less than 15 rounds. I don't have much fun with my Marlin camp 45 unless I use the 15 round mag.

[Lobotomy Boy]

I've not heard a bad thing about either gun, though I went with the PC9 myself just because I like Rugers. I have a Bushnell red dot sight, and it would be the first gun I grabbed if I ever found myself in an urban combat situation. It really does the business on squirrels, too.

I am curious about something you said:

Lever action is not an option for the same reason as shot gun - I don't want to leave a loaded gun in my house - even with a safety on. If I did I would get a used 12 gauge pump, cut the barrel down to shortest legal limit, and call it a day.

What does not wanting to leave a loaded gun in your house have to do with anything? If you're not going to leave a loaded gun around the house, I can't see that it matters much what type of gun you're not going to leave loaded around the house. If you are worried about loading the gun in an emergency situation, you are not gaining much by having a 9mm with a magazine over having a shotgun. I can load and chamber a round in my Mossberg 500 as quickly as I can insert a magazine and rack a round in any of my autoloading handguns, and I can load a magazine and chamber a round in my Tikka T3 even faster, though a 30.06 wouldn't be my first choice for home defense.

[HighVelocity]

I had a Sub2k in 40 and it was fine. I sold it though and bought a Beretta Storm instead. MUCH better weapon imho.

[halvey]

Originally Posted by Woody_in_MN

I went to my 2005 GUN DIGEST and compared 9mm + load, against 40SW. Not THAT much difference in balastics - except the 40 sw is typicially a larger/heavier bullet.

THE difference is in the weight.

[Woody_in_MN]

Lobotomy -

...I can load and chamber a round in my Mossberg 500 as quickly as I can insert a magazine...

I can load a mag holding 10 to 15 rounds in less that a second - I could load maybe one (ONE) round in a sutgun or lever action.

- w

[Woody_in_MN]

Halvey -

THE difference is in the weight.

You can get a 9mm hp at 127 grams - the difference I see from that to largest 40sw load is 20%. Even though I think this is true - I have not one, but two 40sw pistols on order - one Hi-Point, one CZ 40P.

- w

[MachIVshooter]

Originally Posted by Woody_in_MN

Halvey -



You can get a 9mm hp at 127 grams - - w

I hope not. That's over 1/4 pound.

[halvey]

Originally Posted by Woody_in_MN

Halvey -



You can get a 9mm hp at 127 grams - the difference I see from that to largest 40sw load is 20%.

Huh? You can get 180 gr loads for the .40. Check out the CCI Blazer. That's over 40% heavier than the 127. Go shoot at some thick treated lumber and look at the results. Shoot at some poppers or some pins and tell me which falls with authority. The 9mm is good, but to say its similiar to .40 is just wrong.

If you are just target shooting and refuse to reload it's besides the point.