Full auto conversion

[Nick_90]

Dear Friends,

The other day at the range, I witnessed a heated debate between two of my friends about the possibility, in theory, of converting a semi auto into a full auto (it was a theoretical discussion because, in Switzerland, it would be a rather serious offence to do such a conversion without a special authorisation). Anyway, the debate turned around the following question: is it possible (without being a trained gunsmith with state of the art equipment) to convert a closed bolt weapon to full auto or are only open bolt ones prone to such tampering?
Thank you for your opinions...

[Hkmp5sd]

It is possible to convert any semi-auto weapon to fire full auto, closed or open bolt. Most modern machineguns (M16, MP5, AK, etc) fire from a closed bolt and have semi-auto versions for the civilian market.

[Kaylee]

Well, keep in mind that "state of the art" equipment can mean an old mill from 1942, or even a decent set of files, scrap steel, and some patience. Firearms may look different today, but they haven't changed much on the inside in over a hundred years.

Now.... is it possible?

Yes.... sort of.

If you know exactly what you're doing and why (and don't mind going to jail when you get caught for a long time).. it's possible. It's just metal. Anyone who knows how to move metal around competently can make the different parts required. But then, those same people could also build a garage submachine gun from scratch, if the mood so took them. Those old WWII Stens and such weren't much more than plumbing pipe, some springs, and assorted small parts.


Now, if a person *doesn't* know what they're doing and why (the more likely situation in someone stupid enough to try this) -- oh, there's a decent chance they might be able to get a few autofire rounds off before the thing jammed up. Of course, they'd also be risking blowing the thing up in their hands. Try a search on "open breech detonation." Not pretty.

-K

[twoblink]

The answer is... it's SUPER EASY, but you'd be stupid to if you don't know what you are doing.

Find a diagram for your gun. Find the part that says "Sear". File it down.

All done. That applies to 98% of all guns.. Now your gun will go from first round to last round, EVERYTIME.

Just FYI, it's illegal in almost all countries in the world; many "gangstas" have died shooting themselves in the leg after the conversion, and more than likely, you will empty your clip or mag when you cock it back and let it fly.

So don't do it, but yes, it can be done. Quick one way ticket to suicide or murder..

[jtward01]

Originally Posted by twoblink

The answer is... it's SUPER EASY, but you'd be stupid to if you don't know what you are doing.

Find a diagram for your gun. Find the part that says "Sear". File it down.

All done. That applies to 98% of all guns.. Now your gun will go from first round to last round, EVERYTIME.

I wonder about that. What about those guns that have trigger-activated transfer bar safety mechanisms, such as the CZ-75. If you filed the sear to make it full auto would it not stop firing when you released the trigger and the transfer bar dropped so the hammer would no longer contact the firing pin?

[shermacman]

Fundamental rules for full-auto:
1) If you miss with the first shot, you will miss with the next also.
2) If you hit with the first shot, you will miss with the next.
3) Turns money into noise.

[Too Many Choices!?]

PLEASE DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME

Never thought you'd have to say that in AMERICA

[KC&97TA]

http://www.hellfiretriggers.com

full auto conversion in minutes, $29.99 with shipping for the AR-15, I've seen these they're great.

easy on easy off

[molonlabe]

With a good machine shop, vertical mill, lathe, drill press etc...and knowledge to use the stuff. It would be possible to turn your Kirby vacuum cleaner into a fully automatic rifle.

[molonlabe]

Originally Posted by molonlabe

With a good machine shop, vertical mill, lathe, drill press etc...and knowledge to use the stuff. It would be possible to turn your Kirby vacuum cleaner into a fully automatic rifle.

Find the part that says "Sear". File it down.

And I mean safely, that the bolt is completely closed before the hammer is released and slect fire.

[RyanM]

I don't think sear filing works on most guns. Same for disconnector filing. If it's got an inertial firing pin, the action of the hammer/striker following the slide/bolt wouldn't always be fast enough to hit the firing pin hard enough to make the gun fire. It depends on whether the slide/bolt outruns the hammer/striker. Some guns, however, can be converted to full auto with a small piece of metal. I'm fairly sure that a Glock could be made full auto with just a paper clip.

But any of the above is highly illegal in most countries.

Is it easy to do? Probably. Is it safe? Probably not.

Modern full autos that fire from closed bolt have a auto(safety) sear that delays the dropping of the hammer until the bolt is full lock up to contain the pressure from the cartridge when it fires. It's all about timing.

If you just file down or remove parts like the disconnector to make the gun full auto the hammer drops whenever it wants whether the bolt is properly locked up or not. You could end up with a serious kaboom on your hands.

[Too Many Choices!?]

And create a ,"Run Away"...Drop the bolt on a full mag, and it could,"Run Away", 'till all rounds are expended!!!! You just greatly increased your odds at this years special,"Bubba Edition of the Darwin Award" titled,"Bubbas Got To Be Braind Dead To Do This"

PS- "Da Sear",wich Bubba advocates filing on, stops the cycle of fire, but with the disconnector still operating as designed, you shouldl not get auto fire from, "Filing da Sear", ?! Am I wrong here? If all you had to do was,"File Da Sear", all semi-autos would be MG under the ATF's regulations that say any gun that can be readily converted to auto fire is a MG(like open bolt guns are, since you literally could disable the disconnector and have an auto)...Just trying to add to the discussion, I could be wrong...

[Justin]

The other day at the range, I witnessed a heated debate between two of my friends about the possibility, in theory, of converting a semi auto into a full auto (it was a theoretical discussion because, in Switzerland, it would be a rather serious offence to do such a conversion without a special authorisation).

Isn't this debate moot, since the location is Switzerland? I thought that most people there were issued an automatic rifle by the government?

[Hkmp5sd]

thought that most people there were issued an automatic rifle by the government?

Yep.

Gun Ownership in Switzerland

Traditionally, in Switzerland a great umber of firearms are in private hands. Among these are rifles, shotguns, semi-automatic rifles, pistols and revolvers. The issue of gun ownership is closely linked to the centuries-ol Swiss system and tradition of national defense. This explains why gun ownership is far less restricted in Switzerland than in the other European countries.

All Swiss men, with the exception of those with medical exemptions, serve in the army between the ages of 20 and 42 (52 for higher ranking officers). This compulsory military service is based on the traditional concept of the citizen-soldier. Women can join the army on a volunteer basis.

Members of the Swiss army keep their weapons - fully automatic assault rifles or pistols - and a small emergency supply of ammunition at home. According to the Swiss Constituition, upon completion of all required military service, the gun becomes the property of the individual soldier. Assault rifles are then transformed into semi-automatic weapons. Therefore, military-issue weapons, often generations old, are kept in Swiss households.

Every Swiss municipality has a rifle or pistol range, where members of the army train on a compulsory or volunteer basis while in civilian life. These ranges are open to all members of shooting associations. Many Swiss, from age 16 to very old veterans, train there not only in marksmanship, but also in safe and responsible handling of firearms. This includes the safe storage of weapons and ammunition at private residences.

Many privately purchased firearms are used for hunting or self-protection. Especially in the mountainous parts of the country, hunting is a very old right and popular tradition.

http://www.gunownersofvermont.org/swiss_army.html

[Sinsaba]

Originally Posted by KC&97TA

http://www.hellfiretriggers.com

full auto conversion in minutes, $29.99 with shipping for the AR-15, I've seen these they're great.

easy on easy off

LOL!! This is just as easy (yes it does take a little bit of practice) and free!!

LINK TO SITE

Scroll almost to the bottom and grab the .AVI file from "July 11th, 2003 - Bump Fire Academy"

[The Viking]

I read somewhere that New Zeeland rebuilt bolt action rifles into full auto during WWII, since they had very few machineguns, but bolt actions in abundance...can anyone confirm?

[f4t9r]

it can be done , do know why anyone would want that , would not be worth getting busted over

[rudolf]

If you file down the sear, your gun won't fire at all. If you file down the disconector, you've just turned a semiauto into a 'single action'.

With a filed down sear, your hammer will follow the slide when you close it on a round. The only way to fire that gun is to cock the hammer with your thumb and then somehow get your thumb away REAL FAST. You might be able to file the sear to almost zero trigger pull and get a double fire now and then, but no reliable full auto.

If you file down the disconector, the hammer will follow the slide when it closes on a new round. You will then need to manually cock the hammer for the next shot. A German gun rag tested filing down the disconnector on a 1911 and a Browning Baby to prove this myth wrong. The disconnector does not prevent full auto. The disconnector enables semiauto.

I also haven't yet seen a CZ75 with a transfer bar!

And to the original question a Glock can be converted with a simple device:
http://www.jassing.com/josh/full_auto_glock.htm
The IWM/Schweizer Waffenmagazin also had a report about this device some years ago.

[jtward01]

[QUOTE=rudolf]

I also haven't yet seen a CZ75 with a transfer bar!

QUOTE]


Now that I think about it, you're right, instead of a transfer bar the CZ-75B has a piece that raises up into a notch in the firing pin to block the pin's forward movement. When the trigger is pulled back the block is retracted, allowing the pin to move and strike the primer.

My point, however, remains the same. If filing the sear and/or disconnector would enable full auto fire wouldn't the firing pin block stop the firing once the trigger was released?

[oh blanky]

Some would say a conversation about it would qualify as conspiracy.

[Stauble]

i saw an add for a manula of full aout AKs, it was a few bucks and i wa ordering stuff any ways so i said wat the heck and i got it
with the romanian AKs if u look online u can find the old romainien parts that they had to take out wen they were imported to this country.
you buy those, and then take the new parts out, drill a hole here and there and ur done. of course its not that simple, but thats basically how u do it.

[Too Many Choices!?]

Some people would also argue that guns availability, cause crime. It damn sure don't make them right.

PS-When did we get the thought police in AMERICA.

[Hkmp5sd]

Some would say a conversation about it would qualify as conspiracy.

It is only a conspiracy if the person asking for the information intended to actually commit the illegal act and if we knew he was going to do so prior to giving the information.

Still, this thread needs to skip the offhand references to illegal acts and stick to the original subject or it will get locked down fairly soon.

full auto conversion in minutes, $29.99 with shipping for the AR-15, I've seen these they're great.

You are the first person I've encountered that actually liked the hellfire bullet wasting device.

[Azrael256]

It can be done, it has been done. The trick is that a true conversion is not limited to the fire control parts. Just swapping out a sear isn't enough. If that's all you do, you'll end up with a gun that is uncontrollable and malfunctioning to the point that calling it unreliable does a serious disservice to unreliable guns. There are a number of parts found in full-auto guns that never make their way into the semi-auto versions.