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Old July 7, 2014, 10:29 PM   #1
bullseyebob47
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reduced recoil #4 buck a good idea for hd?

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/125...ProductFinding

its federal at 1100 fps.
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Old July 7, 2014, 10:58 PM   #2
C0untZer0
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The Firearms Tactical Institute report recommends #1 Buck

Quote:
For personal defense and law enforcement applications, the International Wound Ballistics Association advocates number 1 buckshot as being superior to all other buckshot sizes.

Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances.

A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma. In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body.
http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm

Having said that though, I've seen gel tests where #4 Buck goes to 12 inches, so it would seem to be pretty effective.
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Old July 7, 2014, 11:04 PM   #3
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ShotgunWorld.com had some interesting gel block tests, but the pics are gone now out of the page. The pics and the original article were republished at thetruthaboutguns.com:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...arious-rounds/

I'm not really sure about those blocks, it seems things were penetrating a little bit more than they should, but anyway, their tests had #4 Buck going to 14 inches in bare gel.
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Old July 7, 2014, 11:36 PM   #4
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I have #4 buck for HD, feel pretty comfortable with it.
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Old July 7, 2014, 11:47 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullseyebob47 View Post
From the back off our house to the front door if a load of #4 buck doesn't stop a group of home invaders in our 1600 sq ft home...they can have it. If they want to stand there and swat at those 24 caliber hornets I'll be glad to let them. As someone who has had a surgeon hit a nerve in my arm and a surgical drain tube pulled out of his abdomen cold sober I can tell you they are going to have no interest in anything except getting to an emergency room.
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Old July 8, 2014, 12:17 AM   #6
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Quote:
From the back off our house to the front door if a load of #4 buck doesn't stop a group of home invaders in our 1600 sq ft home...they can have it
I'm inclined to agree with this.
If for some reason a person fails in the defense of their home, I seriously doubt the size of the buckshot they used is going to be a deciding factor.
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Old July 8, 2014, 12:25 AM   #7
4thPointOfContact
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It's a great choice. Not overpowering so you can get a quick follow up if required.
The only possible drawback would be the famed 'Flitecontrol' wad, it really keeps the pellets tightly grouped; as in 6 inch spread at 75-feet typically.
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Old July 8, 2014, 12:26 AM   #8
Goosey
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Regular is 1,250 ft/s (34 pellets) so 1,100 ft/s is like starting off at 13 yards or so.

Brassfetcher tested full-power #4 at 1253 ft/s and it penetrated 15.6". Reduced recoil is slower so it would have a bit less penetration, on the same site 20 gauge #4 at 1195 ft/s penetrated 13.7 inches.
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Old July 8, 2014, 09:20 AM   #9
lemaymiami
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HD concerns make the cited round a pretty good idea... but for other reasons I'd still be using the standard fight ending, 00buck round in a 2 3/4 format. My main reason is that this round is commonly available anywhere and will get the job done, period. Once you've trained up to use it you're ready to go in a variety of situations at home, on the street, or in a close quarters incident -anywhere. You have to see the actual damage done to the human animal with one to appreciate how terribly effective it is.

If you're never likely to use that defender anywhere else but your home - and you can buy and train with the #4 then you're going to be okay but for the above reasons I'm sticking to what I know works just fine (and you'll never have to look far to buy that standard round....).
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Old July 8, 2014, 10:04 AM   #10
RMc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thPointOfContact View Post
It's a great choice. Not overpowering so you can get a quick follow up if required.
The only possible drawback would be the famed 'Flitecontrol' wad, it really keeps the pellets tightly grouped; as in 6 inch spread at 75-feet typically.

The Federal 12 gauge PS156-4B load in question does not use the Flite-Control wad system.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/125...ProductFinding

Last edited by RMc; July 9, 2014 at 12:04 AM.
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Old July 8, 2014, 11:15 AM   #11
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I think it would be fine, but I'd prefer #1 full power 2 3/4" as my first choice an maybe reduced recoil #1 as a second best option.

I'm not sure the flight control wad is worth it in an HD load. It makes sense as a general purpose police load, but for purely indoor defense it makes no sense to me IMHO.

#4 buck is good though, I think even the reduced recoil load should still penetrate plenty for HD work without massive overpenetration.
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Old July 8, 2014, 12:13 PM   #12
LngHrn45
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I have a .20 gauge for home defense and want a reduced recoil ammo. I have previous retina detachments and have to be cautious of long arms against my cheek. I cannot practice with my shotgun due to the recoil. If I have to fire it for home defense, I will shoot from the hip instead.
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Old July 8, 2014, 01:20 PM   #13
351 WINCHESTER
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Should be a very good round, especially for those who are recoil sensitive.
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Old July 8, 2014, 03:35 PM   #14
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LngHrn45 -

#3 buckshot loads in 20 gauge are a great choice. I use the almost exclusively in my Saiga 20. If you are really planning on shooting from the hip, I recommend attaching a bright flashlight with a really tight beam. Something that you can see in indoor ambient light. At HD ranges, the bright spot should be where the buckshot lands, or at least close enough that you can train yourself to apply the correct Kentucky windage to get the job done.
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Old July 8, 2014, 03:38 PM   #15
Cooldill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gazpacho View Post
LngHrn45 -

#3 buckshot loads in 20 gauge are a great choice. I use the almost exclusively in my Saiga 20. If you are really planning on shooting from the hip, I recommend attaching a bright flashlight with a really tight beam. Something that you can see in indoor ambient light. At HD ranges, the bright spot should be where the buckshot lands, or at least close enough that you can train yourself to apply the correct Kentucky windage to get the job done.
Kentucky windage?? If you think you are using "Kentucky windage" indoors, with a shotgun, utilizing a flashlight, you are wrong. Google it.

BUT I second your choice, there are many effective 20 gauge loads that use #3 buck
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Old July 8, 2014, 06:03 PM   #16
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If you happen to have a desire to load your own, a spreader wad works quite well on #4.

This is the opposite of the "flite control" wad- which, on its own, is basically a 1200 FPS missle at short range ( like hallway distance) That wad is not what you think of in a wad, for those who have never used them, and is pretty nasty durable plastic.


As to the OP... #4 for HD ? Why not. More pellets = more holes. More holes = greater chance of a CNS hit. A typical home invader perp is not going to be armored, and if he was, the difference between 00 and #4 is going to be fairly negligible except on class II and lower armors.

Shooting "in the home" generally does not require the barrier defeating properties that made the 33 caliber round projectile the ball of choice for general shotgun defense. Having reduced recoil just adds to the bonus.


As with any new HD ammo choice, do your patterning, and make sure and get some nightfire un-ear protected test shooting in so you know what to expect in the event you need to actually use your tool for its purpose.

Stay safe !
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Old July 8, 2014, 07:02 PM   #17
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You have hit upon the "apartment solution", and for that application? Perhaps none better.
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Old July 8, 2014, 09:36 PM   #18
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you betcha
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Old July 9, 2014, 02:37 PM   #19
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Quote:
blarby - “As to the OP... #4 for HD ? Why not. More pellets = more holes. More holes = greater chance of a CNS hit.”
If you ascribe to this, and I do, you might consider the 3” chambering of #4 Buck - 41 pellets vs. 27 in the standard 2 ¾” loading. Over 50% more pellets per trigger pull… if you can stand the recoil!

Quote:
blarby - “As with any new HD ammo choice, do your patterning, and make sure and get some nightfire un-ear protected test shooting in so you know what to expect…”
Been there - done that and didn’t like it. I now have NR earmuffs hanging on the bed post.
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Old July 10, 2014, 10:49 AM   #20
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Quote:
reduced recoil #4 buck a good idea for hd?
Standard 2¾" 00 buckshot is a great idea for HD.
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Old July 10, 2014, 09:24 PM   #21
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I consider #4 buck my minimum HD load, but I would use it with confidence. The reduced recoil version is as light as I would go.
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