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Old July 21, 2016, 01:04 AM   #1
Oolong
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Shotgun Questions

I've been posting here for a few weeks, in prep for buying my own first gun instead of borrowing my grandfather's and i've come to the last one i wanted to know about shotguns. I've been looking into the UTAS uts-15 but i was unsure about a few things. In my time here i've switched on a lot of things and i want a mostly metal and plastic set up and i want something modern. but i want to know.

1. is UTAS american owned and operated, if not are there any companies that make a gun designed after 2000 that is similar to the uts-15?

2 is the UTS-15 made in america and if not is there a modern gun design that is, that was developed after 2000?
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Old July 21, 2016, 05:19 AM   #2
Steve C
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Shotguns are primarily for bird hunting and short range small to midsize game.

The UTAS uts-15 is a tactical shotgun whose only real use is for self defense and close range offense against human beings. Its not practical for shooting trap or other flying clay targets. Its magazine capacity is too large for legal use to hunt with. It may have limited use in tactical target games but for the most part its not a very practical gun. Looks cool if you like that kind of thing.

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Old July 21, 2016, 08:56 AM   #3
P.B.Walsh
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Just get a traditional 590, 870, Ithaca 37, or some other pump shotgun that has been around for decades. They're reliable, proven designs that have fought wars, rode in many squad cars, a go to HD firearm, and has hunted every animal in North America from birds to bears.

Plus they are very cheap.

I understand wanting a cool modern shotgun, but ain't nothing cooler than having a slicked up action from thousands of rounds from practicing.
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Old July 21, 2016, 09:12 AM   #4
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"UTAS is a Turkish company specializing in firearms design, engineering and OEM manufacturing."

Kel-Tec, in Florida, has a similar gun. Neither gun has the solid track record and reputation of the Mossberg or Remington pump guns.

Idea: Ask your grandfather what works. He has likely formed some ideas over the years.
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Old July 21, 2016, 09:44 AM   #5
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While the UTS 15 has been in a lot of American movies, nothing about it is American.

http://www.utas-usa.com/utas-history

Quote:
UTAS is a Turkish company specializing in firearms design, engineering and OEM manufacturing.
The Kel-tec KSG is similar and made is the USA.

The kel-tec and the UTS 15 both have had some issues.

I would really like to caution you though particularly since you say this is your 1st gun (I'm not sure if it's your 1st gun of any kind, or 1st long, or 1st shotgun)

Read this and click on the links in the article. There are some good reasons to not want something that short, particularly for someone that's not experienced with long guns in general.

http://thegunwriter.blogs.heraldtribune.com

https://www.google.com/search?client....0.x6kYpIkcRJA


ETA: I got distracted in the middle of typing a reply and basically duplicated what Kendel Black said but with some extra links and the potential for you to see some gruesome pic if you click all of them (there is a warning before the graphic pic)
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Last edited by danez71; July 21, 2016 at 09:50 AM.
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Old July 21, 2016, 10:43 AM   #6
Kendal Black
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Thanks to danez71 for pointing out the safety issue with bullpup shotguns. More links

I think bullpup shotguns are good in concept, but not fully realized yet in terms of design and manufacture. There is also a safety concern the shooting public will have to come to understand. Unfortunately, they seem to be doing it the hard way.
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Old July 21, 2016, 10:51 AM   #7
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Quote:
1. is UTAS american owned and operated, if not are there any companies that make a gun designed after 2000 that is similar to the uts-15?

No it is made in Turkey.
My understanding is that it is also not very reliable, though I do not have first hand experience with it to verify that.


There is the keltec KSG, a polymer bullpup close to the minimum legal length. A largely plastic gun, it feeds from two seven round magazines, which you need to change between manually. At just over 26" long and almost 7 pounds it is very short and about as light weight as you are going to get with such a design.
Bullpups in general also carry the weight well, and feel as if they weigh half what they do because it is not using leverage against you three feet in front of you.


There is also a newer gun called the DP-12.
The DP-12 components are higher quality than the KSG.
With a solid aluminum receiver while also incorporating polymer in the gun.
It is just under 30" and almost 10 pounds.
The gun is basically two pump shotguns and magazines working on one trigger. Heavier, longer, and more expensive than the KSG.
The parent company is a maker of nice double guns, and it is a double barrel bullpup that holds 14 rounds in the magazines (7 per magazine) for a total of 16 rounds with rounds in the chambers, and fires twice per pump.
Being heavy and having a spring recoil system and little muzzle rise it is also very easy to shoot full power loads in compared to most shotguns.
It also costs nearly 50% more than the KSG, but is definitely far beyond 50% better quality.


As mentioned a tactical high capacity shotgun is of use only for defense and playing at the range and unlike a tactical rifle won't be useful for hunting.

Last edited by Zoogster; July 21, 2016 at 01:55 PM.
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Old July 21, 2016, 11:03 AM   #8
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It's hard to help you because you didn't say what you wanted the gun for. If you're just looking for a cool range toy, then the UTAS is for you, although I would personally rather have the KSG. The KSG is more reliable and it's American made. I don't know the details, but it's been rumored that the Turkish arms market supports extremists. Not sure if that's true or not though.

The problem is, if this is your first gun then you should be looking for something for self defense, not a range toy. I looked into the UTAS when it came out just out of curiosity, and it's not even close to reliable enough for self defense. Neither is the KSG in my opinion. They're interesting experiments that may one day yield good self defense options.

What you're looking for is a tried and true shotgun. While you could get by with pretty much any Mossberg or Remington, I would highly recommend the following. Mossberg 590A1, Remington police model 870, or an Ithaca. They're a little more expensive than the hunting grade shotguns, but I think the increased quality is totally necessary for self defense. Used to be that all shotguns were built tough, but nowadays it's all plastic trigger groups and such.

If you want a semi auto, then the Benelli M4 would be my first choice. You could also look into the Remington 1100. There are reasons to stay away from semi autos for home defense, though. They're harder to operate under stress than most people realize.

If you want something for hunting, then get a Remington 870 police model, then buy an aftermarket 28'' barrel with chokes. To go hunting, all you have to do is change out the barrel and stick a mag tube restrictor into it. It will also work for trap and skeet.
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Old July 21, 2016, 11:26 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grampajack View Post
There are reasons to stay away from semi autos for home defense, though. They're harder to operate under stress than most people realize.
^^ Nonsense.

Pump shotguns and single-action revolvers. Because in the time of the most extreme stress most people will ever experienced in their lifetime, what you REALLY want to do is to manually reload the chamber for each round.
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Last edited by I6turbo; July 21, 2016 at 11:51 AM.
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Old July 21, 2016, 11:35 AM   #10
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Pumps are old school, if you are just starting out buy a semi auto and learn how to maintain it.

Semis generally have less kick, quicker second shot, less chance of operator error.

Every time I hear somebody advocate pumps for any reason other than cost, i remember my old shop teacher saying you have to understand generators to understand alternators. No you don't! You are wasting your time. That's how he learned and he was projecting his experience where it didn't apply.

Combat uses of shotguns are almost non-existent , and I pity the poor cop would works for a department too cheap to buy carbines. Maybe they should go back to .38 revolvers to be consistent.

I'm an old dinosaur who has 50 years experience with pumps so I keep mine, but just starting I would not consider them for HD/SD at all.
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Old July 21, 2016, 12:06 PM   #11
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I have a feeling these new double-bullpup shotguns will not get much use once the 'gee-whiz' factor wears off.

Way back when, my brother just had to have a Franchi SPAS-12. It rarely got used after the first trip or two to the range. He loves his Benelli semiauto though, year after year.

I'm a little older, in my 50s, so for what it's worth.... I'd sooner spend money on a SBS permit, and have a nice 14" barreled more traditional tac shotgun, either semi or pump. It would be a truly lightweight, fast handling, awesome and useful defensive shotgun, that could be barrel swapped into a hunter too.
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Old July 21, 2016, 12:14 PM   #12
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Check out the Benelli M4 Entry.
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Old July 21, 2016, 10:39 PM   #13
Oolong
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Couldn't all of the issues with possibly losing a hand like the ksg be reduced by using a barrel extension and wouldn't the likelihood be low anyway because the Utas pumps back like every other normal shotgun in history? The reason I looked into it was because it's new, and I don't see a issue with investing in a design that needs a little work (like the entire country did with the ar15) to vote with my wallet as to what kind of guns I want more of in the future, I personally don't see buying a old style pump gun as a good investment unless it's for less than 200 dollars used because shotguns are just muskets when it comes down to it. I'm really looking for a good range toy as it'll keep my attention well enough for me to get good with it. But I'm on a patriotic kick lately and I saw the uts as having a lot of good features over the ksg but if it's not American owned as I previously read, screw it I'll get the dp12. I personally like hi cap shotguns and pumps like the Utas can shoot two lengths of shells, which made me ignore most mag fed semi autos. But if semi auto shotguns are that much better I'll look into them. I don't own a gun currently but I've been using my grandfather's old rifles at a local range.
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Old July 21, 2016, 10:46 PM   #14
Oolong
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Also what is the meaning of gee whiz?
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Old July 21, 2016, 10:49 PM   #15
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My advice- keep it simple. Look at the Mossberg 500- many models to choose from. You can get a simple combo with a short HD barrel and a 28" bird barrel. Reliable, cheap, American.
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Old July 21, 2016, 10:56 PM   #16
Oolong
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I'm not hunting birds though?
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Old July 21, 2016, 11:06 PM   #17
Oolong
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Also mossbergs look, bare, like $300 AR bare
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Old July 21, 2016, 11:35 PM   #18
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If you're completely honest with yourself that it's a range toy, then have at it. But if you're wanting to vote with your dollars, then buy a good reliable shotgun and support a company that's doing it right, like Mossberg or Benelli. In reality, a Benelli M4 is ten times as innovative as the UTAS or anything like it. That's why it's used by professionals all over the world.
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Old July 21, 2016, 11:50 PM   #19
Oolong
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Isn't the reason most professional armed forces use certain guns based primarily on cost and effectiveness second not on how much better a design is? how is what the Italian owned and possibly manufactured benelli m4 is and different than any of the other single tubed pump muskets everyone else is talking about?
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Old Yesterday, 12:01 AM   #20
Shane in MT
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Quote:
Also what is the meaning of gee whiz?

Meaning that burning through 14 rounds in a hurry will surely make you grin.

But that doesn't really translate into any real-world practicality.

Not trying to be a downer, just practical wisdom. Go for it if you want it.
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Old Yesterday, 12:15 AM   #21
Oolong
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Holy Shiite a benelli is like twice the price of the UTAS, ***? and it only has one mag tube? what are they putting in that gun to make it worth that much? is it gold?
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Old Yesterday, 12:59 AM   #22
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First and foremost, craftsmanship and quality control. Their shotguns are also famous for being lightweight and having low recoil. They're also stone cold reliable. That's what you're paying for. I've got an M1 Super 90, an older model no longer made, and it's hands down the sweetest shotgun I've ever shot. It handles like a dream.

The Remington 1100 police version is around 1000, and it's still an excellent shotgun. A Mossberg 590A1, the best defensive shotgun in the world in my opinion, is only around 500. The 870 police model is around 600. You can SBS any of the pumps very easily for a donation of 200 dollars to the ATF. What's not to love?
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Old Yesterday, 01:32 AM   #23
Oolong
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Good sir a donation is something you do to benefit others and get nothing back but the warm feeling of having helped people, the 200 dollar tax for sbs is highway robbery.
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Old Yesterday, 03:40 AM   #24
Oolong
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so i looked into the DP 12 and while it is a hunk of aluminum and has one more barrel than i need it's american owned and made and they happen to be working on a bullpup semi auto too, which i will buy depending on how well i like the DP 12.
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Old Yesterday, 07:32 AM   #25
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Don't waste your money on that wall hanger, because that's what it's good for. Trap/skeet, no. Hunting anything that flies , nope. Big game, not likely unless you can plug the magazine. If money is not an issue go find a benelli M1Super 90. You can also get a riot barrel with the mag tube extension and it is a fantastic do all shotgun. If your on a budget then a remington870 or mossberg 590 are excellent choices. You will get more uses no enjoyment out of these guns then you would ever get out of the uts.
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