Quantcast
12GA Rifle From HELL-- - Page 10 - THR
THR  

Go Back   THR > Tools and Technologies > Shotguns

Welcome to THR
You are currently viewing our site as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have, access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!


If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please visit the help section.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 30, 2006, 01:33 AM   #226
hubel458
Member
 
 
Join Date: March 1, 2003
Location: Brinton,Mich.
Posts: 580
Doing more research at someones suggestion on the
Saiga-12 shotgun. It has strong rotary bolt, and alloy
barrel. Has 3 inch chamber and shortened version of our
case should allow velocities like I get with NEF or
better. Loading brass cases you would have to crimp
slugs good so no sharp corner interferes with
feeding.Ed
__________________
Ed Hubel.
hubel458 is offline  
Old September 3, 2006, 06:11 AM   #227
hubel458
Member
 
 
Join Date: March 1, 2003
Location: Brinton,Mich.
Posts: 580
We got 1887 12ga levergun here to test. Has 2 & 3/4
inch chamber and we will test with our cases cut back and
with Rocky Mtn cases.Here is pic.Neat gun.Ed


__________________
Ed Hubel.
hubel458 is offline  
Old September 3, 2006, 10:43 AM   #228
madmike
Member
 
 
Join Date: January 5, 2003
Location: In a well-equipped suburban bunker
Posts: 2,095
Is a lever gun bolt strong enough to take the pressure? The bolt doesn't lock.

I got to see a thick-walled H&R built on a 10 gauge receiver. Definitely strong enough. I'll eventually see about getting one.
__________________
http://SharpPointyThings.com
http://www.MichaelZWilliamson.com

FREEHOLD, Jan 04 from Baen Books
THE WEAPON, Aug 05 from Baen Books
CONFIRMED KILL, Sep 05 from HarperCollins
BETTER TO BEG FORGIVENESS..., Winter 07 from Baen Books

~~~

"The Finest battle implement ever devised." Ung the Caveman on the M1 Pointy Stick.
madmike is offline  
Old September 3, 2006, 12:51 PM   #229
hubel458
Member
 
 
Join Date: March 1, 2003
Location: Brinton,Mich.
Posts: 580
Mike- This is relica 1887 with forged heat treated reciever.
The rolling block type breech locks in back of reciever
against a two shoulders like back of Greeener breech block.
So the strength it has is strength of sidewalls.
It is as strong as good break action.They tested
it at White labs with shotgun size cartridge to
43,000 psi. Three times normal shotgun powder load and
3 oz shot.Ed
__________________
Ed Hubel.
hubel458 is offline  
Old September 3, 2006, 01:02 PM   #230
madmike
Member
 
 
Join Date: January 5, 2003
Location: In a well-equipped suburban bunker
Posts: 2,095
Excellent info. Thanks.
__________________
http://SharpPointyThings.com
http://www.MichaelZWilliamson.com

FREEHOLD, Jan 04 from Baen Books
THE WEAPON, Aug 05 from Baen Books
CONFIRMED KILL, Sep 05 from HarperCollins
BETTER TO BEG FORGIVENESS..., Winter 07 from Baen Books

~~~

"The Finest battle implement ever devised." Ung the Caveman on the M1 Pointy Stick.
madmike is offline  
Old September 5, 2006, 02:18 AM   #231
hubel458
Member
 
 
Join Date: March 1, 2003
Location: Brinton,Mich.
Posts: 580
Testing levergun. 600gr at over 1600. From a case
shortened to 2.45 inches , matching plastic cases when thet are
crimped. This allows brass case to feed from magazine.
With a long barrel, which is in the works, it
would get couple hundred ft more.Ed
__________________
Ed Hubel.
hubel458 is offline  
Old September 5, 2006, 02:23 AM   #232
Don't Tread On Me
Member
 
 
Join Date: July 19, 2004
Location: FLORIDA
Posts: 2,213
What is the point of a cartridge like that? Just go .50BMG and be done with it.
Don't Tread On Me is offline  
Old September 5, 2006, 07:51 AM   #233
madmike
Member
 
 
Join Date: January 5, 2003
Location: In a well-equipped suburban bunker
Posts: 2,095
Quote:
What is the point of a cartridge like that? Just go .50BMG and be done with it.

.50s are banned in some locations. Rifles are not legal for hunting in some locations. .50s are much more expensive to build/buy, since these are built on modified actions of existing weapons. And .50s aren't even close to the power some of these loads achieve.
__________________
http://SharpPointyThings.com
http://www.MichaelZWilliamson.com

FREEHOLD, Jan 04 from Baen Books
THE WEAPON, Aug 05 from Baen Books
CONFIRMED KILL, Sep 05 from HarperCollins
BETTER TO BEG FORGIVENESS..., Winter 07 from Baen Books

~~~

"The Finest battle implement ever devised." Ung the Caveman on the M1 Pointy Stick.
madmike is offline  
Old September 5, 2006, 12:17 PM   #234
hubel458
Member
 
 
Join Date: March 1, 2003
Location: Brinton,Mich.
Posts: 580
Yep there are 10 million deer hunters tied to shotgun
only deer hunting areas. And the areas are expanding like here in MI.And with the power of our setup you can extend range
for big game hunting to 150-200 yds but due to blunt
heavy slugs, don't have the long range travel of rifles
with spitzer bullets, to be a danger in built up
populated areas.All around my section there is 30 homes
within long range rifle capabilities
and roads with traffic, two are blacktops, and
a shot elevated up a little from a rifle that misses
target couldn't be guaranteed to not hit something
with people involved.Ed.
__________________
Ed Hubel.
hubel458 is offline  
Old September 7, 2006, 12:58 AM   #235
hubel458
Member
 
 
Join Date: March 1, 2003
Location: Brinton,Mich.
Posts: 580
You folks here on THR have put this thread in the
lead as far as views, compared to other forums
where we are posting the progress of the 12GA FH
developement. We really appreciate the interest.
I got guys here looking at the 1887 levergun and they
sure like it,and some plan getting one.Ed
__________________
Ed Hubel.
hubel458 is offline  
Old September 7, 2006, 08:09 AM   #236
madmike
Member
 
 
Join Date: January 5, 2003
Location: In a well-equipped suburban bunker
Posts: 2,095
Ed, please check your email.
__________________
http://SharpPointyThings.com
http://www.MichaelZWilliamson.com

FREEHOLD, Jan 04 from Baen Books
THE WEAPON, Aug 05 from Baen Books
CONFIRMED KILL, Sep 05 from HarperCollins
BETTER TO BEG FORGIVENESS..., Winter 07 from Baen Books

~~~

"The Finest battle implement ever devised." Ung the Caveman on the M1 Pointy Stick.
madmike is offline  
Old September 7, 2006, 08:45 PM   #237
hubel458
Member
 
 
Join Date: March 1, 2003
Location: Brinton,Mich.
Posts: 580
Mike--It got vaporized or something, didn't get to me.Ed
__________________
Ed Hubel.
hubel458 is offline  
Old September 12, 2006, 08:45 PM   #238
hubel458
Member
 
 
Join Date: March 1, 2003
Location: Brinton,Mich.
Posts: 580
Shot 12 double ought buckshot in 1887.
That's 624 grains worth. Used short
2.45 inch case that feeds from magazine.
Used fast ball powder, getting about
1500 fps. Further testing on 600 gr
hardened slug got 1700.That is in short
20 in barrel. Comparing this short case
with the 3.07 inch case I use in NEF there
is an inch difference in length of powder
column so it takes faster powder with
10k more pressure in 87 to get same velocities as in NEF. But the 1887 handles it fine.
It takes as much pressure as my Savage
in its present form.Ed
__________________
Ed Hubel.
hubel458 is offline  
Old September 15, 2006, 11:58 PM   #239
hubel458
Member
 
 
Join Date: March 1, 2003
Location: Brinton,Mich.
Posts: 580
I got Rocky Mtn turned 12ga cases, and am
developing loads. They are 2 7/8 inches
long are for use in NEF and shortened
in 1887. These cases have shotgun
primers. Now these cases with shotgun primers and the two cases of ours we put small primers in don't fire the slow rifle powder loads
reliably,like cases with bmg primers.
Our testing is with 600 hardened Dixie slugs.
So I have and am testing slow shotgun powder and fast rifle.I tested 5 shotgun powders and
the primers fires then ok but the quick peak pressure when loads increased to get velocity
wanted in NEF caused too much case expansion just ahead of the base.Cases ejected of but
that expansion and resizing will ruin cases
in a couple shots.These cases have a real thick base, and are machined to glass smooth finish.Nice cases.
I now testing AA1680 Ball and it looks good.
Have got loads up to 105 gr with 2 wads in
the Rocky Mtn case, and only .002 expansion
of case ahed of base. Will chrono next and
expect it to get velocity we want in NEF.
Nice thing about this testing is that same loads will work in shortened 87 case by just
using less wad column.Ed
__________________
Ed Hubel.
hubel458 is offline  
Old September 19, 2006, 12:43 AM   #240
hubel458
Member
 
 
Join Date: March 1, 2003
Location: Brinton,Mich.
Posts: 580
Testing Rocky Mtn cases in NEF.Got 1850 fps
with 125 gr AA 1680 and 132gr of RE-7.
Cases are 2.9 after 3 firings. AA 1680
load had .135 card wad and 2 1/2 in lubed felt
wads, and RE-7 load had same card and
a 1/2 and a 1/4 lubed wad. Re-7 less dense.
Base expansion ahead of thick base was
.002 to .003 and resized without huge effort.
The base is .300 thick, case has shotgun primers. By the way I put primers in with
bmg primer post. Work good. Now will cut back
some cases for the 87 levergun.About same
loads used in NEF minus wads should do.
Will get little less velocity in 20 in bbl.
But I will have loads figured out for
a bunch of guys here and in Australia.
I also feel now that have I found loads that
get velocity without a huge expansion, to
the turned cases that good low base plastic
will do the same velocity, in strong alloy
barreled guns. Ed
__________________
Ed Hubel.
hubel458 is offline  
Old September 20, 2006, 11:44 PM   #241
hubel458
Member
 
 
Join Date: March 1, 2003
Location: Brinton,Mich.
Posts: 580
Good news-First tested 87 levergun with
Rocky Mtn and plastic cases.
Using Rocky Mtn cases cut back.Cut case
back to length that feeds from magazine,
2.45 in. That is about max length of any
loaded and crimped 2.75 case.Got 600gr to 1700
with 20 in barrel.120 gr of RE-7.No squib loads.
Cases eject good, expanded a little
ahead of base .003, resize ok.Now the second
good news. Seeing as how these non traditional
powders used in shotgun didn't expand the
turned cases a lot( in our cases made from
bmg brass it took over 10 loads to expand
bases enough to need sizing)............
I figured time to check plastic cases.
Plastic cases took the same load as turned
brass in 1887 and the NEF.120 gr RE-7 in
1887(It wouldn't hold anymore without
a lot of compression) and
140 gr in NEF. Tested Fed,Win,Rem,highbase,
and low base. So you guys out there
who want to get the power that NEF and
1887 are able to deliver use good plastic
cases as a way to get started with
600 gr slugs.You don't need heatreated
for those speeds just hard cast
from wheel wts.. Win AA 2 & 3/4 best for 1887.
It is lowbase and easiest to resize.
To get potential(extra 200 fps) it needs a long barrel.They made long barrels in original.
I used federal 3 inch case in Nef.By the way modern plastic cases have steel bases with
copper plating so they are strong. I tried
one of the fast shotgun powders, that
previously expanded the brass
turned case to much, in plastic cases in
NEF and at 50 gr case was sticking
and had expanded quite a bit, but same
case with 140gr RE-7 popped out easy,
and resized easy.Ed
__________________
Ed Hubel.

Last edited by hubel458; September 23, 2006 at 11:46 PM.
hubel458 is offline  
Old September 23, 2006, 11:52 PM   #242
hubel458
Member
 
 
Join Date: March 1, 2003
Location: Brinton,Mich.
Posts: 580
In testing plastic cases in NEF and 87 I get
good case life with RE-7 loads. In 87 a Rem case
fired 5 times and it looks good. In NEf a Federal case
fired 6 times and looks good. Of course you can fire them
once or twice and throw away at 3-5 cents each.
I got long heavy barrel ordered for 87 levergun,
and then we will be able to put zip to the slugs.Ed
__________________
Ed Hubel.
hubel458 is offline  
Old September 27, 2006, 02:20 AM   #243
hubel458
Member
 
 
Join Date: March 1, 2003
Location: Brinton,Mich.
Posts: 580
I put spitzer point on a Dixie 600
heat treated slug,
and got weight down to 500 gr.
It got 3800 fps in Savage, 16,000 ft lbs.
Used 350 gr of fast ball powder blend.
And barrel is still mirror clean- the faster
I shoot them the cleaner the barrel.
That new thin lube and heatreating
is doing the job.Ed
__________________
Ed Hubel.
hubel458 is offline  
Old September 27, 2006, 08:00 AM   #244
madmike
Member
 
 
Join Date: January 5, 2003
Location: In a well-equipped suburban bunker
Posts: 2,095
Awesome. I'm going to eventually get one of the heavy barreled NEFs. How far can that go?
__________________
http://SharpPointyThings.com
http://www.MichaelZWilliamson.com

FREEHOLD, Jan 04 from Baen Books
THE WEAPON, Aug 05 from Baen Books
CONFIRMED KILL, Sep 05 from HarperCollins
BETTER TO BEG FORGIVENESS..., Winter 07 from Baen Books

~~~

"The Finest battle implement ever devised." Ung the Caveman on the M1 Pointy Stick.
madmike is offline  
Old September 27, 2006, 11:16 AM   #245
jrou111
Member
 
 
Join Date: March 14, 2006
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 323
Quote:
I put spitzer point on a Dixie 600
heat treated slug,
and got weight down to 500 gr.
It got 3800 fps in Savage, 16,000 ft lbs


Now that's alot of energy
__________________
James
-Benelli Nova Tactical pump - for the home
-Taurus Tracker 44 Magnum Stainless - for the road and outdoors
jrou111 is offline  
Old September 27, 2006, 11:42 PM   #246
hubel458
Member
 
 
Join Date: March 1, 2003
Location: Brinton,Mich.
Posts: 580
The NEf gets about 2200 with 600 gr using our case.
About 1900 using turned case or plastic case.Getting
4800 ft lbs with plastic is the real feat I think.Ed
__________________
Ed Hubel.
hubel458 is offline  
Old September 27, 2006, 11:47 PM   #247
madmike
Member
 
 
Join Date: January 5, 2003
Location: In a well-equipped suburban bunker
Posts: 2,095
Is that FPS or ft/lbs?
__________________
http://SharpPointyThings.com
http://www.MichaelZWilliamson.com

FREEHOLD, Jan 04 from Baen Books
THE WEAPON, Aug 05 from Baen Books
CONFIRMED KILL, Sep 05 from HarperCollins
BETTER TO BEG FORGIVENESS..., Winter 07 from Baen Books

~~~

"The Finest battle implement ever devised." Ung the Caveman on the M1 Pointy Stick.
madmike is offline  
Old September 28, 2006, 11:28 AM   #248
hubel458
Member
 
 
Join Date: March 1, 2003
Location: Brinton,Mich.
Posts: 580
Nef-2200 fps our case - 1900 fps turned or plastic case.
the 1900 fps in plastic is 4800 ft/lbs energy.
I also saved lot a time loading plastic by not doing a
roll crimp which is a pain with once fired star crimped cases.
Just remove crimped part, load it, hold slug in and
use glue gun. slug stays tight and slug along with card wad
lets powder build to good pressure with no
squib loads.Ed.
__________________
Ed Hubel.
hubel458 is offline  
Old September 28, 2006, 11:49 AM   #249
madmike
Member
 
 
Join Date: January 5, 2003
Location: In a well-equipped suburban bunker
Posts: 2,095
Even with the superheavy barrel on the 10ga frame? It seemed very robust when I handled it.
__________________
http://SharpPointyThings.com
http://www.MichaelZWilliamson.com

FREEHOLD, Jan 04 from Baen Books
THE WEAPON, Aug 05 from Baen Books
CONFIRMED KILL, Sep 05 from HarperCollins
BETTER TO BEG FORGIVENESS..., Winter 07 from Baen Books

~~~

"The Finest battle implement ever devised." Ung the Caveman on the M1 Pointy Stick.
madmike is offline  
Old September 28, 2006, 02:48 PM   #250
hubel458
Member
 
 
Join Date: March 1, 2003
Location: Brinton,Mich.
Posts: 580
Yes it strong and if you get 2-3 more lbs in the butt,
recoil with a 4800 ft lb load is
tamed pretty good.Ed.
__________________
Ed Hubel.
hubel458 is offline  
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise.
This site, its contents, Shooting Reviews, and its contents are Copyright (c) 2010-2013 Firearms Forum, Inc.
IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER
Although The High Road has attempted to provide accurate information on the forum, The High Road assumes no responsibility for the accuracy of the information. All information is provided "as is" with all faults without warranty of any kind, either express or implied. Neither The High Road nor any of its directors, members, managers, employees, agents, vendors, or suppliers will be liable for any direct, indirect, general, bodily injury, compensatory, special, punitive, consequential, or incidental damages including, without limitation, lost profits or revenues, costs of replacement goods, loss or damage to data arising out of the use or inability to use this forum or any services associated with this forum, or damages from the use of or reliance on the information present on this forum, even if you have been advised of the possibility of such damages.