12GA Rifle From HELL-- - Page 4

hubel458 · January 28, 2006, 01:21 PM

taralon-capacity is 355gr water.
spiggy..we plan on getting pics and video
when good weather gets here.

Antibubba- this even, as big as it is, isn't
ultimate stopper for game, bunch of us are going to
make 2 and 4 bores.I also have 700HE with more
power to test in a couple months, and down
the road the 900HE.Here is pic for
your pleasure, of 4 our bore cases,
with 2000gr bullets, next to 20mm brass we make
them from, and 06 case for comparison.Ed.

taralon · January 29, 2006, 10:41 AM

Hubel, thank you very much for that information.

Third_Rail · January 29, 2006, 11:28 AM

The ATF is okay with a 4 bore? The letter I got from them said it'd be a DD...

Nanook · January 29, 2006, 01:40 PM

On the bright side, it'd be almost impossible to lose your brass....

hubel458 · January 29, 2006, 02:58 PM

Third Rail
Others have built 4 bores and haven't even had to deal
with atf or even bothered by them.In fact colarado guy built
some in falling blocks, guy in TN built some in doubles,
guy in AK built and was written upin magazines,distributor
in midwest imported and sold large number of 4 bore russian
pump guns, and I know 2 guys who have them and haven't been bothered or do the registration bit, with 200buck tax.
If it becomes an issue we will just send in papers and get it registered as sporting use like I did my 700. ATF isn't
all on same track, but the one dept that checks over 50cal
stuff for sporting use/dd exemption has approved all that
have asked.Ed.

madmike · January 29, 2006, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hubel458

guy in AK built and was written upin magazines,

Actually, he was from the NWT, but AFAIK, as long as its solid slug and not explosive, large caliber are fine. I think there's a limit on case capacity.

hubel458 · January 29, 2006, 04:13 PM

Mike--I think limit is 1/4 lb of powder in the case.

Title 18 Gun Control act -
Sec 921 (a) (4) (B) says in describing a DD, says

any over 50cal, except shotgun calibers.

So that covers all bores from 2 to 28 bore or gauge.

Then has exemtion in part (C) that says any over

50 cal that they determine is antique or sporting.

And that last is what we get stuff registered as sporting,
that isn't gauge or bore sizes over 50 cal.

Third_Rail · January 30, 2006, 01:17 PM

hubel458, what's the process for getting an exemption from the BATFE for >.50?

hubel458 · January 30, 2006, 08:11 PM

You send them aletter requesting an exemption for your
cartridge,asking for it to be registered for sporting use.
Also include a description of the sporting type
arms used in, like break actions, falling block actions,
bolt actions. Must send in drawing of case with dimensions.
Then wait.
Back to 12GA from Hell--Here is pic of case in a
modified Martini Greener..Sometime will try to build a heavy
wall version with changes to use case in.By building
wider and thicker, can change pivot hookup, it will handle
long case, It was originally regular 12ga action.Ed.

The_Antibubba · January 30, 2006, 11:54 PM

Not only do I want to pictures of that thing in action, I want to see a video clip of the other folks at the range while you're there!!

hubel458 · February 1, 2006, 12:18 AM

Here is a picture of our cases with 3
different bullets and a case with original rim
turned off and threaded to take the 12ga size
rims shown in pic.Ed

only1asterisk · February 2, 2006, 05:57 AM

I thought Rob's Borchardt actioned rifle looked familiar, then I ran across a photo of it's greatgrandfather. Only 5000 pounds, maybe I could find a couple of guys to go in on it.

What is it? Cogswell & Harrison 8 bore falling block. Nitro proofed, but for round balls. An old school beauty, I posted the pic to show just how close Rob's gun follows the work of a London gun makers falling block single. I think the family resemblence in uncanny.

David

odysseus · February 2, 2006, 06:17 AM

I am truly impressed. Niiiice. More photos!

hubel458 · February 2, 2006, 11:39 PM

If you do your own work on building one like
Rob's, you do for lot less than that...And that
Borchardt is nothing like the old, in fact it
is big enough for a 10-8-4 bore/gauges.Ed..

hubel458 · February 4, 2006, 08:20 PM

Here is a picture of the bolt holding a case.The top
of the bolt is to camera and up where top lug
is and I wanted to show extension
added to left lower lug that holds case along with
top lug extension and extractor on opposite side...Ed

hubel458 · February 6, 2006, 11:51 AM

Got folks going to use NEF Ultra II slug guns,
by lengthening chamber.These are heavy barrel 12ga
built on a 10ga NEF frame.I started out with 305
brasswith rims on and have only 75 left.They
have got the fever..Ed

madmike · February 6, 2006, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hubel458

Got folks going to use NEF Ultra II slug guns,
by lengthening chamber.These are heavy barrel 12ga
built on a 10ga NEF frame.I started out with 305
brasswith rims on and have only 75 left.They
have got the fever..Ed

OOOooooh! How much? I'd want ammo and a bored barrel.

hubel458 · February 6, 2006, 06:47 PM

Mike-I can get you some cases, but you will have
to get gunsmith to lengthen chamber.Ed.

Balog · February 6, 2006, 07:53 PM

Wonderful rifles. Well done! How many times can you reload the cases before they become unusable?

Also, I'm wondering about the 4 bore's bullets. How on earth do you get jackets for that large a bullet? In the pic they look similar in shape to slugs, but larger and jacketed.

hubel458 · February 7, 2006, 12:58 AM

Balog--At pressures in my gun, max 30-35,000, never wear
them out.Have to anneal top third every 50 rounds.One fired 33 times and no sizing needed on bottom half.

For 4 bore bullet bullets they use big hydraulic
press(A Corbin) to make jackets from copper sheets
and then to press lead and jacket together.Also there is
a company that now makes jackets with a huge factory
stamping press, supplying bullet makers.Ed.

madmike · February 7, 2006, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balog

31. I am NOT authorized to start a revolution. Even if I prepare a briefing proving my Oath of Enlistment says I should.
~~RevDisk

I can't get that site to come up. Looks like another stack of stuff for http://www.skippyslist.com or my addenda at http://www.michaelzwilliamson.com/rants/skippylist.php

But yes, my oath DOES in fact authorize and require I start a revolution if called for.

GeoW · February 7, 2006, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SB88LX

Perfect for squirrel hunting. How much?

Yes, just shoot the tree down and let the Jack Russell go!

GeoW

hubel458 · February 8, 2006, 10:33 AM

And if shooting tree down makes for a herd of
mad squirrels you've got a stopper.Ed.

hubel458 · February 9, 2006, 11:15 PM

Some have been mentioning using guns with lenghtened
chambers and our case for deer in shotgun hunting areas.
Already been fired once in an Encore 12ga. There was a
discussion of game wardens. etc. Well most shotguns
smooth and rifled have 12 GA and the length stamped
on barrels.There is 2 1/2, 2 3/4, 3, 3 1/2, so I say
stamp ours "12 GA 3 3/4 FH". Any thoughts from folks
here about this.Ed.

Third_Rail · February 10, 2006, 09:44 AM

Stamp it 3 3/4" MAGNUM or something very distinctive. It's no ordinary shotgun round.

January 28, 2006, 01:21 PM	#76
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	taralon-capacity is 355gr water. spiggy..we plan on getting pics and video when good weather gets here. Antibubba- this even, as big as it is, isn't ultimate stopper for game, bunch of us are going to make 2 and 4 bores.I also have 700HE with more power to test in a couple months, and down the road the 900HE.Here is pic for your pleasure, of 4 our bore cases, with 2000gr bullets, next to 20mm brass we make them from, and 06 case for comparison.Ed. __________________ Ed Hubel.

January 29, 2006, 11:28 AM	#78
Third_Rail Member Join Date: January 10, 2004 Posts: 4,981	The ATF is okay with a 4 bore? The letter I got from them said it'd be a DD... __________________ Giving up the right to arms is a mistake a free people get to make only once. I will not make that mistake. Government always thinks everything is about leadership. It never is. It's about the people. - Standing Wolf

January 29, 2006, 01:40 PM	#79
Nanook Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Location: NOT far enough from Chicago Posts: 566	On the bright side, it'd be almost impossible to lose your brass.... __________________ NRA and ISRA. Proud member of the Gun Culture.

January 29, 2006, 02:58 PM	#80
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	Third Rail Others have built 4 bores and haven't even had to deal with atf or even bothered by them.In fact colarado guy built some in falling blocks, guy in TN built some in doubles, guy in AK built and was written upin magazines,distributor in midwest imported and sold large number of 4 bore russian pump guns, and I know 2 guys who have them and haven't been bothered or do the registration bit, with 200buck tax. If it becomes an issue we will just send in papers and get it registered as sporting use like I did my 700. ATF isn't all on same track, but the one dept that checks over 50cal stuff for sporting use/dd exemption has approved all that have asked.Ed. __________________ Ed Hubel.

January 29, 2006, 04:13 PM	#82
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	Mike--I think limit is 1/4 lb of powder in the case. Title 18 Gun Control act - Sec 921 (a) (4) (B) says in describing a DD, says any over 50cal, except shotgun calibers. So that covers all bores from 2 to 28 bore or gauge. Then has exemtion in part (C) that says any over 50 cal that they determine is antique or sporting. And that last is what we get stuff registered as sporting, that isn't gauge or bore sizes over 50 cal. __________________ Ed Hubel. Last edited by hubel458; January 29, 2006 at 05:24 PM.

January 29, 2006, 10:41 AM	#77
taralon Member Join Date: January 28, 2006 Posts: 30	Hubel, thank you very much for that information.

January 30, 2006, 01:17 PM	#83
Third_Rail Member Join Date: January 10, 2004 Posts: 4,981	hubel458, what's the process for getting an exemption from the BATFE for >.50? __________________ Giving up the right to arms is a mistake a free people get to make only once. I will not make that mistake. Government always thinks everything is about leadership. It never is. It's about the people. - Standing Wolf

January 30, 2006, 08:11 PM	#84
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	You send them aletter requesting an exemption for your cartridge,asking for it to be registered for sporting use. Also include a description of the sporting type arms used in, like break actions, falling block actions, bolt actions. Must send in drawing of case with dimensions. Then wait. Back to 12GA from Hell--Here is pic of case in a modified Martini Greener..Sometime will try to build a heavy wall version with changes to use case in.By building wider and thicker, can change pivot hookup, it will handle long case, It was originally regular 12ga action.Ed. __________________ Ed Hubel.

January 30, 2006, 11:54 PM	#85
The_Antibubba Member Join Date: February 8, 2004 Location: Sac, The PRK Posts: 2,665	Not only do I want to pictures of that thing in action, I want to see a video clip of the other folks at the range while you're there!! __________________ The Antibubba ********************* If you are a Jew who supports gun control, you've either forgotten the lessons of the Holocaust, or you never learned them in the first place.

February 1, 2006, 12:18 AM	#86
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	Here is a picture of our cases with 3 different bullets and a case with original rim turned off and threaded to take the 12ga size rims shown in pic.Ed __________________ Ed Hubel. Last edited by hubel458; February 2, 2006 at 11:45 PM.

February 2, 2006, 06:17 AM	#88
odysseus Member Join Date: May 10, 2004 Location: US Citizen Posts: 946	I am truly impressed. Niiiice. More photos!

February 2, 2006, 11:39 PM	#89
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	If you do your own work on building one like Rob's, you do for lot less than that...And that Borchardt is nothing like the old, in fact it is big enough for a 10-8-4 bore/gauges.Ed.. __________________ Ed Hubel.

February 4, 2006, 08:20 PM	#90
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	Here is a picture of the bolt holding a case.The top of the bolt is to camera and up where top lug is and I wanted to show extension added to left lower lug that holds case along with top lug extension and extractor on opposite side...Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

February 6, 2006, 11:51 AM	#91
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	Got folks going to use NEF Ultra II slug guns, by lengthening chamber.These are heavy barrel 12ga built on a 10ga NEF frame.I started out with 305 brasswith rims on and have only 75 left.They have got the fever..Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

February 6, 2006, 06:47 PM	#93
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	Mike-I can get you some cases, but you will have to get gunsmith to lengthen chamber.Ed. __________________ Ed Hubel.

February 6, 2006, 07:53 PM	#94
Balog Member Join Date: September 22, 2003 Location: Directly below date registered Posts: 1,955	Wonderful rifles. Well done! How many times can you reload the cases before they become unusable? Also, I'm wondering about the 4 bore's bullets. How on earth do you get jackets for that large a bullet? In the pic they look similar in shape to slugs, but larger and jacketed. __________________ "It ISN'T the gun. It's the shooter. No one has yet figured out how to sell skill and competence packed in a cardboard box." Lee Lapin

February 7, 2006, 12:58 AM	#95
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	Balog--At pressures in my gun, max 30-35,000, never wear them out.Have to anneal top third every 50 rounds.One fired 33 times and no sizing needed on bottom half. For 4 bore bullet bullets they use big hydraulic press(A Corbin) to make jackets from copper sheets and then to press lead and jacket together.Also there is a company that now makes jackets with a huge factory stamping press, supplying bullet makers.Ed. __________________ Ed Hubel.

February 8, 2006, 10:33 AM	#98
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	And if shooting tree down makes for a herd of mad squirrels you've got a stopper.Ed. __________________ Ed Hubel.

February 9, 2006, 11:15 PM	#99
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	Some have been mentioning using guns with lenghtened chambers and our case for deer in shotgun hunting areas. Already been fired once in an Encore 12ga. There was a discussion of game wardens. etc. Well most shotguns smooth and rifled have 12 GA and the length stamped on barrels.There is 2 1/2, 2 3/4, 3, 3 1/2, so I say stamp ours "12 GA 3 3/4 FH". Any thoughts from folks here about this.Ed. __________________ Ed Hubel. Last edited by hubel458; February 11, 2006 at 10:09 PM.

February 10, 2006, 09:44 AM	#100
Third_Rail Member Join Date: January 10, 2004 Posts: 4,981	Stamp it 3 3/4" MAGNUM or something very distinctive. It's no ordinary shotgun round. __________________ Giving up the right to arms is a mistake a free people get to make only once. I will not make that mistake. Government always thinks everything is about leadership. It never is. It's about the people. - Standing Wolf