12GA Rifle From HELL-- - Page 9

hubel458 · July 13, 2006, 12:24 AM

Being some guns need to much work
to fire bmg primers, it easier to
do the following with adapter bushings.
Here is picture of cases for primer
comparisons.1st is regular bmg
primer. 2nd is adapted to a shotgun primer.
3rd is adapted to large rifle primer.
Of the 2 adaptations, large rifle is
easier to do, just ream out pocket, thread in adapter, but adapting shotgun primer
you have to deepen the original primer
pocket a little, then thread and screw in
a bushing.These two primers give about
100 fps less than bmg primer.Ed.

hubel458 · July 14, 2006, 11:06 PM

Anyone wanting to get into 12ga bigbore NEF shooting;
Nef 12ga Ultra slug gun at gunshop $225.Add weight to
butt and forearm. Get a thicker pad.
Get a box of 10 brass cases from Rocky Mtn Cartridge
for 60 bucks. These cases use shotgun primers, have thick
base like our case, have thick sides to fit chambers
right, No chamber work needed, use as is.
As you fire these cases they work harden, and can go faster.
600gr at 1750 fps possible,aat first.. that's 4000 ft lbs.Ed

mrmeval · July 15, 2006, 05:49 PM

http://www.rockymountaincartridge.com/headstamp2.JPG

hubel458 · July 16, 2006, 09:26 PM

Savage with long case- 600gr hardened slug at 3250,
no leading.Cases needing a little resizing on the bottom,
but still extract ok.Lesser loads haven't needed sizing
on bottom half.Getting up to around 40k pressures.Ed

hubel458 · July 20, 2006, 01:17 AM

Developing loads with short version in the NEF.
So far using RL-25 got 1700 fps with 600 gr slug.
and cases extract easy. Which is quite good
cosidering it is a gun without bolt action extracting
capabilities.Abnd test are in the real hot
weather we have here.Working good.Ed

hubel458 · July 22, 2006, 08:37 PM

Testing RL-25 in Savage, with long case--Got 730 gr
hardened cast slug to 2400 plus with 300 gr RL-25.
Full load. Bottom of cases don't need sizing.Ed

hubel458 · July 24, 2006, 10:01 PM

Testing Savage with long case-Got 2550 with
320gr WC-855H special ball.730 gr slug.
Same slug,
300gr of RL-25 got 2400. 300 gr of RL-22
got 2800. 280 gr of W-760 ball got 2900.
Will hold more 760, but pressures around 40k on last
two loads mentioned.Savage extracts easy,
bellers like a tank gun.Ed

hubel458 · July 29, 2006, 12:24 AM

Been asked about 3 inch versions of our case. I don't have
any to spare. Just the few I am testing NEF with.
But box of ten is only $60 plus shipping from
Rocky Mtn Cartridge, with thick bases and set up for
3 inch chambers.Ed

RogueDrake · July 29, 2006, 04:59 PM

Early on in this thread, you said that you made your cases out of .50BMG cases. How did you go about doing this?

hubel458 · July 29, 2006, 05:21 PM

We took rim on bmg cases down to bottom of extractor groove,
leaving a stub that we threaded 5/8 x 24. Then we screwed
on a 12ga size premade brass rim.In following picture
you see case threaded and rims ready to go.Use
loctite.In a while I will have a bunch of rims
for for those wanting to make cases.The we fireform case
in chamber to strighten it out.Ed

hubel458 · July 31, 2006, 06:06 PM

Shot NEF with the RL-25 load, 600 gr.Got 3
shots in 4 inches at 50 yds, with aperture sights and my bad eyes.Got barrel extension
made and will get it on in next couple weeks.
NEF and Original Sav barrel have same twist and grooves, so I am putting heavy part of
left over barrel to good use.I hate shorty barrels.Ed

the naked prophet · July 31, 2006, 06:25 PM

If, for some ridiculous reason, you wanted to pay the tax man your $200 and get a suppressor for this beast... and then you wanted to shoot subsonic slugs out of it... but didn't just want to slow it down...

What is the heaviest slug could you send downrange at 1000 fps?

hubel458 · July 31, 2006, 07:02 PM

In the NEF 12-1400 gr, in the long case in Savage
20-2500 gr.But lighter slugs with supressor may be so much easier
recoilwise that the 200 bucks is a bargain.Ed.

hubel458 · August 3, 2006, 10:30 AM

We are having a group buy of 1000 gr soft jacketed
bullets for 12ga from Hawk. $2.10 each.Contact
me for details.Need order of 1000 total for them to
make dies and start.Let me know if interested.Ed.

hubel458 · August 4, 2006, 10:33 AM

We are getting a replica 1887 12ga lever gun to
test our cases in.It is forged modern steel and handles higher
pressures compared to originals.Ed

madmike · August 4, 2006, 11:14 AM

Quote:

We are getting a replica 1887 12ga lever gun to
test our cases in.

Is the receiver long enough?

hubel458 · August 4, 2006, 01:09 PM

Mike- We will have to shorten our cases to use the magazine and
cartridge lifter.But myself and others wanted to know how hot we can load our cases shortened in it. One guy in AUS wants to use hairy loads in one to hunt where they are only allowed shotguns,
for buffalo.And other shotgun only hunters have heard of the high pressure testing gun went through for 43,000 psi in
12 ga case, and they figure it is a way to get 700NE power
at a good price, with legal hunting arm for shotgun only.
If I have one for me in the long run I will heavy barrel
it, put on huge buttstock and pad and use as
a lever operated single shot with full length case.. Ed

madmike · August 4, 2006, 01:42 PM

Is there a good magnum bolt gun that will work?

hubel458 · August 5, 2006, 03:30 AM

Mike-- Well my Savage at the reasonable price, I guess.
And bmg size actions costing much more. Bolt size is the
problem, being able to fit 12ga rim size.
Now I havw other wildcat, the 700 HE with same big case only
belted allowing smaller rim, that I have to test that allows
use of an action like the Montana Rifle Co PH model, if we can get them to increase barrel thread size to match the inrease
in action size they did. Ferlach makes fancy ones that
handle 700NE with same size rim as 12ga, so it would work, but costs as much as 3 new cars.Ed

hubel458 · August 8, 2006, 09:58 AM

We are getting a big ole replica 12ga 1887 levergun
to test our cases in.It is forged reciever, modern steel, heatreated for high pressures.Ed.

Eightball · August 8, 2006, 11:00 PM

HOLY CRAP!!!!!

hubel458 · August 9, 2006, 11:01 PM

This project is truly a big fun thing.
We will test levergun with shortened cases,
to match factory chambers,first,
as some guys want to know what it will do when used as
repeater.The ballistics will be better than NEF or Encore
in short cases, as action is supposed to be stronger.Ed.

hubel458 · August 12, 2006, 12:49 AM

Got the new hollowbase 600 gr Dixie hardened slugs, for
smoothbores. Nef likes then. Got 2000 fps with 215 gr
ball powder. Will test a little faster
powder to and I think it will get to 2200.
The would be over 6000 ft lbs
from a NEF 12ga. Ed.

hubel458 · August 13, 2006, 11:06 PM

We got recoil now-Got a 1050 gr
Bridger over 2200 fps in the Savage.
I took the hollow base 750 gr Bridgers
made for me, and wedged in .500 caliber
slugs(I took out of 12ga sabot)in the base.
Added 300 gr. I was going to melt lead and put in,
but this was easier about 5 seconds,
after 15 seconds shortening nose on grinder
of .500 slug.Ed

hubel458 · August 24, 2006, 12:11 PM

Hairy is the word.Mines pussycat in comparison.
Rob shot a few 1000 grain Bridgers at 3250 fps
and he said he couldn't go any higher as recoil
was "severe". His Borchardt is 24 lbs, and can take
any pressure you could load for it and still
hang on. Cartridges of this size really gets
the juices flowing at over 23,000 ft lbs..Ed

July 13, 2006, 12:24 AM	#201
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	Being some guns need to much work to fire bmg primers, it easier to do the following with adapter bushings. Here is picture of cases for primer comparisons.1st is regular bmg primer. 2nd is adapted to a shotgun primer. 3rd is adapted to large rifle primer. Of the 2 adaptations, large rifle is easier to do, just ream out pocket, thread in adapter, but adapting shotgun primer you have to deepen the original primer pocket a little, then thread and screw in a bushing.These two primers give about 100 fps less than bmg primer.Ed. __________________ Ed Hubel.

July 14, 2006, 11:06 PM	#202
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	Anyone wanting to get into 12ga bigbore NEF shooting; Nef 12ga Ultra slug gun at gunshop $225.Add weight to butt and forearm. Get a thicker pad. Get a box of 10 brass cases from Rocky Mtn Cartridge for 60 bucks. These cases use shotgun primers, have thick base like our case, have thick sides to fit chambers right, No chamber work needed, use as is. As you fire these cases they work harden, and can go faster. 600gr at 1750 fps possible,aat first.. that's 4000 ft lbs.Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

July 15, 2006, 05:49 PM	#203
mrmeval Member Join Date: October 2, 2004 Posts: 1,768	Pix of RMC's work http://www.rockymountaincartridge.com/headstamp2.JPG

July 16, 2006, 09:26 PM	#204
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	Savage with long case- 600gr hardened slug at 3250, no leading.Cases needing a little resizing on the bottom, but still extract ok.Lesser loads haven't needed sizing on bottom half.Getting up to around 40k pressures.Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

July 20, 2006, 01:17 AM	#205
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	Developing loads with short version in the NEF. So far using RL-25 got 1700 fps with 600 gr slug. and cases extract easy. Which is quite good cosidering it is a gun without bolt action extracting capabilities.Abnd test are in the real hot weather we have here.Working good.Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

July 22, 2006, 08:37 PM	#206
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	Testing RL-25 in Savage, with long case--Got 730 gr hardened cast slug to 2400 plus with 300 gr RL-25. Full load. Bottom of cases don't need sizing.Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

July 24, 2006, 10:01 PM	#207
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	Testing Savage with long case-Got 2550 with 320gr WC-855H special ball.730 gr slug. Same slug, 300gr of RL-25 got 2400. 300 gr of RL-22 got 2800. 280 gr of W-760 ball got 2900. Will hold more 760, but pressures around 40k on last two loads mentioned.Savage extracts easy, bellers like a tank gun.Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

July 29, 2006, 12:24 AM	#208
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	Been asked about 3 inch versions of our case. I don't have any to spare. Just the few I am testing NEF with. But box of ten is only $60 plus shipping from Rocky Mtn Cartridge, with thick bases and set up for 3 inch chambers.Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

July 29, 2006, 04:59 PM	#209
RogueDrake Member Join Date: July 29, 2006 Location: Purdue Posts: 3	Early on in this thread, you said that you made your cases out of .50BMG cases. How did you go about doing this?

July 29, 2006, 05:21 PM	#210
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	We took rim on bmg cases down to bottom of extractor groove, leaving a stub that we threaded 5/8 x 24. Then we screwed on a 12ga size premade brass rim.In following picture you see case threaded and rims ready to go.Use loctite.In a while I will have a bunch of rims for for those wanting to make cases.The we fireform case in chamber to strighten it out.Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

July 31, 2006, 06:06 PM	#211
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	Shot NEF with the RL-25 load, 600 gr.Got 3 shots in 4 inches at 50 yds, with aperture sights and my bad eyes.Got barrel extension made and will get it on in next couple weeks. NEF and Original Sav barrel have same twist and grooves, so I am putting heavy part of left over barrel to good use.I hate shorty barrels.Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

July 31, 2006, 06:25 PM	#212
the naked prophet Member Join Date: February 20, 2006 Location: MO Posts: 1,237	If, for some ridiculous reason, you wanted to pay the tax man your $200 and get a suppressor for this beast... and then you wanted to shoot subsonic slugs out of it... but didn't just want to slow it down... What is the heaviest slug could you send downrange at 1000 fps?

July 31, 2006, 07:02 PM	#213
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	In the NEF 12-1400 gr, in the long case in Savage 20-2500 gr.But lighter slugs with supressor may be so much easier recoilwise that the 200 bucks is a bargain.Ed. __________________ Ed Hubel.

August 3, 2006, 10:30 AM	#214
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	We are having a group buy of 1000 gr soft jacketed bullets for 12ga from Hawk. $2.10 each.Contact me for details.Need order of 1000 total for them to make dies and start.Let me know if interested.Ed. __________________ Ed Hubel.

August 4, 2006, 10:33 AM	#215
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	We are getting a replica 1887 12ga lever gun to test our cases in.It is forged modern steel and handles higher pressures compared to originals.Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

August 4, 2006, 01:09 PM	#217
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	Mike- We will have to shorten our cases to use the magazine and cartridge lifter.But myself and others wanted to know how hot we can load our cases shortened in it. One guy in AUS wants to use hairy loads in one to hunt where they are only allowed shotguns, for buffalo.And other shotgun only hunters have heard of the high pressure testing gun went through for 43,000 psi in 12 ga case, and they figure it is a way to get 700NE power at a good price, with legal hunting arm for shotgun only. If I have one for me in the long run I will heavy barrel it, put on huge buttstock and pad and use as a lever operated single shot with full length case.. Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

August 4, 2006, 01:42 PM	#218
madmike Member Join Date: January 5, 2003 Location: In a well-equipped suburban bunker Posts: 2,088	Is there a good magnum bolt gun that will work? __________________ http://SharpPointyThings.com http://www.MichaelZWilliamson.com FREEHOLD, Jan 04 from Baen Books THE WEAPON, Aug 05 from Baen Books CONFIRMED KILL, Sep 05 from HarperCollins BETTER TO BEG FORGIVENESS..., Winter 07 from Baen Books ~~~ "The Finest battle implement ever devised." Ung the Caveman on the M1 Pointy Stick.

August 5, 2006, 03:30 AM	#219
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	Mike-- Well my Savage at the reasonable price, I guess. And bmg size actions costing much more. Bolt size is the problem, being able to fit 12ga rim size. Now I havw other wildcat, the 700 HE with same big case only belted allowing smaller rim, that I have to test that allows use of an action like the Montana Rifle Co PH model, if we can get them to increase barrel thread size to match the inrease in action size they did. Ferlach makes fancy ones that handle 700NE with same size rim as 12ga, so it would work, but costs as much as 3 new cars.Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

August 8, 2006, 09:58 AM	#220
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	We are getting a big ole replica 12ga 1887 levergun to test our cases in.It is forged reciever, modern steel, heatreated for high pressures.Ed. __________________ Ed Hubel.

August 8, 2006, 11:00 PM	#221
Eightball Member Join Date: May 31, 2005 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 4,259	HOLY CRAP!!!!! __________________ cracked butt-"Getting shot in the head from across the street with a .22 would surely ruin your day." gezzer-"You do not want to fall down in a pasture of EMU's. They will eat you."

August 9, 2006, 11:01 PM	#222
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	This project is truly a big fun thing. We will test levergun with shortened cases, to match factory chambers,first, as some guys want to know what it will do when used as repeater.The ballistics will be better than NEF or Encore in short cases, as action is supposed to be stronger.Ed. __________________ Ed Hubel.

August 12, 2006, 12:49 AM	#223
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	Got the new hollowbase 600 gr Dixie hardened slugs, for smoothbores. Nef likes then. Got 2000 fps with 215 gr ball powder. Will test a little faster powder to and I think it will get to 2200. The would be over 6000 ft lbs from a NEF 12ga. Ed. __________________ Ed Hubel.

August 13, 2006, 11:06 PM	#224
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	We got recoil now-Got a 1050 gr Bridger over 2200 fps in the Savage. I took the hollow base 750 gr Bridgers made for me, and wedged in .500 caliber slugs(I took out of 12ga sabot)in the base. Added 300 gr. I was going to melt lead and put in, but this was easier about 5 seconds, after 15 seconds shortening nose on grinder of .500 slug.Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

August 24, 2006, 12:11 PM	#225
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	Hairy is the word.Mines pussycat in comparison. Rob shot a few 1000 grain Bridgers at 3250 fps and he said he couldn't go any higher as recoil was "severe". His Borchardt is 24 lbs, and can take any pressure you could load for it and still hang on. Cartridges of this size really gets the juices flowing at over 23,000 ft lbs..Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.