12GA Rifle From HELL-- - Page 13

hubel458 · January 1, 2007, 10:11 PM

The 80 gr 4759/600gr Dixie slug loads, 3" plastic
cases, with wads and roll crimp, can be used in
modern, alloy steel, smooth barreled, 12 gauges.
A little experimenting and the Dixie being hollow
base can be as accurate as other hollowbase or
brenneke or foster slugs, only
with much more power.Ed

klover · January 3, 2007, 08:54 AM

Sorry if you already posted it.

This man deserves the Congressional Medal of Honor.

My NEF is on it's way.
I intend to use Gorilla glue to reattach my retnas

.

Let's team up with some support in the way of material, tools, etc.

Has anyone noticed the NEF supply drying up lately?

My hat is off to Ed. Long live his outstanding experimenting spirit.

madmike · January 3, 2007, 09:03 AM

I don't think so. The MoH is for bravery under fire exceeding all expectations.

However, a Peter Capstick Trophy for cartridge development would not be amiss.

hubel458 · January 3, 2007, 02:13 PM

Thanks guys- The Dixie slugs are .729" .And there are
some others that are advertized for smooth also.
And along with Dixies experimenting other
companies are making a few of them heavier than the
traditional one ounce as well, as well as the
lighter sabots.One of the greatest satifactions in
all this has been taking plastic cases and getting
much more power that the factory loads and making
a roll crimped slug load that looks as nice and
professional as those factory loads.Ed.

hubel458 · January 9, 2007, 05:59 PM

Here is pictures of the breech, lever,
linkage, etc, set up on a block to
get the geometry for the scaleup model working
ok.And setup measurements to make the breech
hole in the action, in right place.Also used
this model to get hammer and trigger set
up to ride on the breech block. With
a strong hammer and trigger in the right
place in the guard.In the pics above you see the pin the
lever pivots on. The actions being bigger
will be wider than the levers.So the space on the
pivot will be taken up by the Ruger
style extractor on the left side and a spacer
on the right side. Spacer also acts as a
breech block stop at the bottom of the
breech travel.So to get block stopped at
right position for the diameter of the case
and feed trough, we adjust spacer size.
Ruger extractors from GP changed
a little bit will do.Ed.

klover · January 15, 2007, 10:15 PM

Hi Ed:
Have you had a chance to experiment with other powders in the NEF with plastic hulls?

Also, if you were to machine slugs out of copper or brass, would .725 diameter work, or would .729 be the only way to go?

Snappy_13 · January 15, 2007, 10:55 PM

think its big enough?

hubel458 · January 16, 2007, 12:33 AM

We have tested some turned, brass, Bridger slugs, 750
gr hollowbase and heavier ones. .729 dia, as that what most
rifled 12ga barrels run.Other rifle powders, were RE7,
RE15, H110, H2227, 4198 etc. Thes all need starter
powder like Blue Dot, We tested Blue Dot, 800 hi-skor,
HS-5, Hs- 7 and few other different
shotgun powders and could not get velocity without
pressure peak going too high. Ed

hubel458 · January 23, 2007, 11:54 PM

Here is sectioned action with parts in.
Original action that had defects
that I sectioned down the middle..I
ground out the top to allow case
to set higher, representing a
the taller action that we will
have due to larger diameter cases.
That lever in the picture is the
lever we will use with longer stroke.
Also in the action layout is the
breechblock, hammer, trigger with a
12GA FH in front, all in to check layout.
This lever looks to be easier to fit
and shape to bigger action and stock,
with a good pistolgrip to handle recoil.
Lever shape fits where trigger is better.Ed

hubel458 · January 28, 2007, 04:00 AM

Double pumper 870 big bore. 20 shots.
BE Real neat with rifled barrels, and our
4759, plastic case slug loads,
In classifieds on here.Fires both
or one at a time.Ed

mugsie · January 28, 2007, 09:34 AM

You can stay at home with that gun and still hunt in africa, all you need is a spotter over there to adjust the elevation and windage!

hubel458 · January 31, 2007, 08:53 PM

I will be posting more research on this thread
about other powders in 12ga plastic cases,about the
12GA FH loads, about scaled up falling blocks, my 700HE long
belted case, and the 28GA FH.Here is picture of
some other cartridges I have with some of mine.
1st= 408CT, 2nd- T-rex necked to 416- 3rd- 600OK
4th- 510HE, 5th-585HE, 6th-700H 3.25, 7th-12GA FH,
8th-700HE. Last most powerful. Ed

hubel458 · February 2, 2007, 05:20 PM

For you big bore collectors.Maybe
get some for collections as the guys
who ordered them, didn't take them.
There is a whole bunch of the Tula 4bore
cases at Rocky Mtn Cartridge Co.
This was the run we had made for the
Tula 4bore pumpgun. It's a 3inch 4bore
case. 20 bucks single case, shipping and all.
The price of brass and machining is twice that.
Here is pic of the gun it went into.Ed

ilcylic · February 3, 2007, 11:46 PM

Dang that's cool.

I think I want one.

hubel458 · February 5, 2007, 01:19 AM

ilcylic-Are you referring the 4 bore pump or the cases
for it. It really is a nice large bore gun.Ed

hubel458 · February 7, 2007, 12:41 PM

Here is picture of first breech block
model that is finished for the
falling block scale up model.
You can see the hammer and trigger
mounted in the back.Ed

hubel458 · February 13, 2007, 11:07 PM

Another experiment in shotgun/rifle realm is
28GA From Hell. 28ga is .550 bore and with 550Mag
barrels & bullets being made it is a natural. Have one
on bolt gun ready to chamber.Chamber still
will fire shorter cases..Ed

hubel458 · February 16, 2007, 01:27 AM

Rocky MTN is making me some
3.25 in 28ga cases. They are good to 38k psi.
That will get 550 gr out at 2500 in
bolt action.A regular 28ga gun may get to
2000, depending on how heavy barrel is.
Get a NEF Ultra cut off leaving breech section
for monoblock and have 28ga rifled barrel
made and screwed or soldered in monoblock.
And being able to hold 38k to match brass,
That would get 2500 fps loads.Ed

hubel458 · February 18, 2007, 09:42 PM

There is a possibility that we can take big
spanish doubles in 10/12 ga and rebarrel to 28ga
now that there are .550 barrels around. Put them into breech section of barrels like monoblock doubles are built.
They'd be heavy enough barrel to shoot powerful 28ga
slug loads in the brass cases. Ed

hubel458 · February 22, 2007, 12:38 PM

Tested AA2015- VV N130- Norma200- in plastic cases with small primers. They don't fire
dependably. Sqibs and misfires. Have
VV N110 ordered to test.Have had inquiries
about getting our cases shortened for strength
and they want to put in small primer.
They can be adapted with bushing. Ok but
must use 4759 or fast shotgun powders,
if they are used by themselves. Any slower powders, a fast shotgun starter powder
is needed. My testing shows RE-15 with 10gr
of Blue Dot starter is best of all we tested
in slower powders for shorter cases.Ed

hubel458 · February 27, 2007, 08:21 PM

Here is picture of the first falling block
model of aluminum, with a roughed out
stock to see how it looks. Action is a
rough model. It shoulders nice, and
lever is inlet into pistol grip,
so you can't get banged up
fingers with the big cartridges it is designed
for, like levers that stick down at the
guard.Ed

hubel458 · February 28, 2007, 08:12 PM

Tis stock is of modern big bore layout.Older
styles with more drop at heel can be used.
Comb is uphill a 1/4" at back from comb front.So
it won't hit the face. The front of comb can also
be whittled back and more curve added to top of
the grip, if a longer tang is wanted for the
tang mounted ladder sights.Ed

hubel458 · March 3, 2007, 08:23 PM

Thr rear top of action will have recess for mounting
any length tang needed. Also lever can be straightened
for pld style straight grip stocks. Ed

hubel458 · March 8, 2007, 01:13 PM

Here is pic of action model with lever open
and the breech block down. Also the action
will have a slot in the rtop rear for a
top tang of whatever length you need.Ed

hubel458 · March 12, 2007, 08:13 PM

Info about the toggle link. It is up inside
the breech block, and quite short,and that
allows the overall height of the action to
be relatively compact, for the huge
cases we plan on using.But yet the top
part of the breechblock is solid for
great strength.Ed

January 1, 2007, 10:11 PM	#301
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 526	The 80 gr 4759/600gr Dixie slug loads, 3" plastic cases, with wads and roll crimp, can be used in modern, alloy steel, smooth barreled, 12 gauges. A little experimenting and the Dixie being hollow base can be as accurate as other hollowbase or brenneke or foster slugs, only with much more power.Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

January 3, 2007, 08:54 AM	#302
klover Member Join Date: February 8, 2004 Location: WA Posts: 658	Outside diameter of Dixie slug? Sorry if you already posted it. This man deserves the Congressional Medal of Honor. My NEF is on it's way. I intend to use Gorilla glue to reattach my retnas . Let's team up with some support in the way of material, tools, etc. Has anyone noticed the NEF supply drying up lately? My hat is off to Ed. Long live his outstanding experimenting spirit. __________________ Please donate to the NRA lobby which lobbies for the 2nd: https://www.nraila.org/get-involved-...re/donate.aspx This link makes it easy to write ALL your legislators: http://www.nraila.org/get-involved-l...your-reps.aspx

January 3, 2007, 09:03 AM	#303
madmike Member Join Date: January 5, 2003 Location: In a well-equipped suburban bunker Posts: 2,088	I don't think so. The MoH is for bravery under fire exceeding all expectations. However, a Peter Capstick Trophy for cartridge development would not be amiss. __________________ http://SharpPointyThings.com http://www.MichaelZWilliamson.com FREEHOLD, Jan 04 from Baen Books THE WEAPON, Aug 05 from Baen Books CONFIRMED KILL, Sep 05 from HarperCollins BETTER TO BEG FORGIVENESS..., Winter 07 from Baen Books ~~~ "The Finest battle implement ever devised." Ung the Caveman on the M1 Pointy Stick.

January 3, 2007, 02:13 PM	#304
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 526	Thanks guys- The Dixie slugs are .729" .And there are some others that are advertized for smooth also. And along with Dixies experimenting other companies are making a few of them heavier than the traditional one ounce as well, as well as the lighter sabots.One of the greatest satifactions in all this has been taking plastic cases and getting much more power that the factory loads and making a roll crimped slug load that looks as nice and professional as those factory loads.Ed. __________________ Ed Hubel.

January 9, 2007, 05:59 PM	#305
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 526	Here is pictures of the breech, lever, linkage, etc, set up on a block to get the geometry for the scaleup model working ok.And setup measurements to make the breech hole in the action, in right place.Also used this model to get hammer and trigger set up to ride on the breech block. With a strong hammer and trigger in the right place in the guard.In the pics above you see the pin the lever pivots on. The actions being bigger will be wider than the levers.So the space on the pivot will be taken up by the Ruger style extractor on the left side and a spacer on the right side. Spacer also acts as a breech block stop at the bottom of the breech travel.So to get block stopped at right position for the diameter of the case and feed trough, we adjust spacer size. Ruger extractors from GP changed a little bit will do.Ed. __________________ Ed Hubel.

January 15, 2007, 10:15 PM	#306
klover Member Join Date: February 8, 2004 Location: WA Posts: 658	Hi Ed: Have you had a chance to experiment with other powders in the NEF with plastic hulls? Also, if you were to machine slugs out of copper or brass, would .725 diameter work, or would .729 be the only way to go? __________________ Please donate to the NRA lobby which lobbies for the 2nd: https://www.nraila.org/get-involved-...re/donate.aspx This link makes it easy to write ALL your legislators: http://www.nraila.org/get-involved-l...your-reps.aspx

January 15, 2007, 10:55 PM	#307
Snappy_13 Member Join Date: January 11, 2007 Posts: 49	think its big enough? __________________ GUN CONTROL means your hitting your target

January 16, 2007, 12:33 AM	#308
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 526	We have tested some turned, brass, Bridger slugs, 750 gr hollowbase and heavier ones. .729 dia, as that what most rifled 12ga barrels run.Other rifle powders, were RE7, RE15, H110, H2227, 4198 etc. Thes all need starter powder like Blue Dot, We tested Blue Dot, 800 hi-skor, HS-5, Hs- 7 and few other different shotgun powders and could not get velocity without pressure peak going too high. Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

January 23, 2007, 11:54 PM	#309
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 526	Here is sectioned action with parts in. Original action that had defects that I sectioned down the middle..I ground out the top to allow case to set higher, representing a the taller action that we will have due to larger diameter cases. That lever in the picture is the lever we will use with longer stroke. Also in the action layout is the breechblock, hammer, trigger with a 12GA FH in front, all in to check layout. This lever looks to be easier to fit and shape to bigger action and stock, with a good pistolgrip to handle recoil. Lever shape fits where trigger is better.Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

January 28, 2007, 04:00 AM	#310
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 526	Double pumper 870 big bore. 20 shots. BE Real neat with rifled barrels, and our 4759, plastic case slug loads, In classifieds on here.Fires both or one at a time.Ed __________________ Ed Hubel. Last edited by hubel458; January 28, 2007 at 12:32 PM.

January 28, 2007, 09:34 AM	#311
mugsie Member Join Date: May 8, 2006 Posts: 449	You can stay at home with that gun and still hunt in africa, all you need is a spotter over there to adjust the elevation and windage!

January 31, 2007, 08:53 PM	#312
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 526	I will be posting more research on this thread about other powders in 12ga plastic cases,about the 12GA FH loads, about scaled up falling blocks, my 700HE long belted case, and the 28GA FH.Here is picture of some other cartridges I have with some of mine. 1st= 408CT, 2nd- T-rex necked to 416- 3rd- 600OK 4th- 510HE, 5th-585HE, 6th-700H 3.25, 7th-12GA FH, 8th-700HE. Last most powerful. Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

February 2, 2007, 05:20 PM	#313
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 526	For you big bore collectors.Maybe get some for collections as the guys who ordered them, didn't take them. There is a whole bunch of the Tula 4bore cases at Rocky Mtn Cartridge Co. This was the run we had made for the Tula 4bore pumpgun. It's a 3inch 4bore case. 20 bucks single case, shipping and all. The price of brass and machining is twice that. Here is pic of the gun it went into.Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

February 3, 2007, 11:46 PM	#314
ilcylic Member Join Date: September 14, 2004 Location: Desert Southwest, USA Posts: 1,003	Dang that's cool. I think I want one. __________________ "It's the STAKES that matter. Not the odds." -- Lee Lapin, regarding "needing" a CCW "Wealth and freedom are stamped on the opposite sides of a single coin." -- Standing Wolf Μολὼν λαβέ See Cypherpunks write code. See Cypherpunks deploy code. See Governments fall.

February 5, 2007, 01:19 AM	#315
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 526	ilcylic-Are you referring the 4 bore pump or the cases for it. It really is a nice large bore gun.Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

February 7, 2007, 12:41 PM	#316
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 526	Here is picture of first breech block model that is finished for the falling block scale up model. You can see the hammer and trigger mounted in the back.Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

February 13, 2007, 11:07 PM	#317
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 526	Another experiment in shotgun/rifle realm is 28GA From Hell. 28ga is .550 bore and with 550Mag barrels & bullets being made it is a natural. Have one on bolt gun ready to chamber.Chamber still will fire shorter cases..Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

February 16, 2007, 01:27 AM	#318
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 526	Rocky MTN is making me some 3.25 in 28ga cases. They are good to 38k psi. That will get 550 gr out at 2500 in bolt action.A regular 28ga gun may get to 2000, depending on how heavy barrel is. Get a NEF Ultra cut off leaving breech section for monoblock and have 28ga rifled barrel made and screwed or soldered in monoblock. And being able to hold 38k to match brass, That would get 2500 fps loads.Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

February 18, 2007, 09:42 PM	#319
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 526	There is a possibility that we can take big spanish doubles in 10/12 ga and rebarrel to 28ga now that there are .550 barrels around. Put them into breech section of barrels like monoblock doubles are built. They'd be heavy enough barrel to shoot powerful 28ga slug loads in the brass cases. Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

February 22, 2007, 12:38 PM	#320
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 526	Tested AA2015- VV N130- Norma200- in plastic cases with small primers. They don't fire dependably. Sqibs and misfires. Have VV N110 ordered to test.Have had inquiries about getting our cases shortened for strength and they want to put in small primer. They can be adapted with bushing. Ok but must use 4759 or fast shotgun powders, if they are used by themselves. Any slower powders, a fast shotgun starter powder is needed. My testing shows RE-15 with 10gr of Blue Dot starter is best of all we tested in slower powders for shorter cases.Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

February 27, 2007, 08:21 PM	#321
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 526	Here is picture of the first falling block model of aluminum, with a roughed out stock to see how it looks. Action is a rough model. It shoulders nice, and lever is inlet into pistol grip, so you can't get banged up fingers with the big cartridges it is designed for, like levers that stick down at the guard.Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

February 28, 2007, 08:12 PM	#322
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 526	Tis stock is of modern big bore layout.Older styles with more drop at heel can be used. Comb is uphill a 1/4" at back from comb front.So it won't hit the face. The front of comb can also be whittled back and more curve added to top of the grip, if a longer tang is wanted for the tang mounted ladder sights.Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

March 3, 2007, 08:23 PM	#323
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 526	Thr rear top of action will have recess for mounting any length tang needed. Also lever can be straightened for pld style straight grip stocks. Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

March 8, 2007, 01:13 PM	#324
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 526	Here is pic of action model with lever open and the breech block down. Also the action will have a slot in the rtop rear for a top tang of whatever length you need.Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

March 12, 2007, 08:13 PM	#325
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 526	Info about the toggle link. It is up inside the breech block, and quite short,and that allows the overall height of the action to be relatively compact, for the huge cases we plan on using.But yet the top part of the breechblock is solid for great strength.Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.