12GA Rifle From HELL--

[hubel458]

We're going to test smoothbore slugs in 87
like these Brenneke KOs with our special
powder loads to get velocity up. Many guys are
getting accuracy with these in smooth and
rifled barrels, and I going to see if they
will stay together and be stable with speed added.Ed

[Exremist]

I was just re-reading some of the last few posts and Ed, you really like pushing the very limits of the human body. How do you take that kind of recoil? Don't get me wrong, I like a healty dose of "Thump", but that much might scare me a little bit. Has it givin you a flinch?

Also, I just found some further information on the JDJ .950 Magnum I posted about previously. The ballistics are: 3,600 grain brass bullet moving 2,200 fps, getting around 36,000 foot pounds of energy. That just blows my mine that people can actually shoot it more then once.

"...Rob shortened our brass case to
3 inches and shot a few loads in his Encore. He got about 1800 fps
with a 750 gr slug..."

Ed, you have to tell me the recipe for that one.

-Extremist

[hubel458]

He didn't give his recipe, but the testing in our cases
show it can be done in NEF with 90gr of 4227
in an Encore/NEF using our cases shortened to 3". Our cases take
more and still extract than RMC and plastic cases .Ed

[Exremist]

You're my hero!

[hubel458]

I make the guns heavy, proper balance, thick pad.
Balance is important. I only shoot them standing,
for off hand shooting. And I stand for all
chrono work as with guns are on sturdy
tall shooting stand with barrel locked onto a 300 lb
weight.Shoot a lot that way ensuring good chrono
readings and I'm not bent over where recoil could hurt.Ed

[hubel458]

Got an 8ga barrel blank being made now,
will be here end of the week.Found this
info on plastic 8ga kiln gun loads, they
load a frangible 710gr slug at 2300-
for 8300ft lbs, load 1275gr hard slug to
1700, 8100 ft lbs. We will outdo those easy
with our non-shotgun powder loads, in
a heavy barrel.Ed

[hubel458]

Tested 35" smooth barrel in 1887. Got couple
1 oz foster slugs over 2400, with 110gr
of 4227. 3" plastic case, regular primers.
The 28GA FH cases on the way.Chambering
bolt gun for it now..Ed

[hubel458]

In the 87 long smooth barrel got
1 oz Brenneke to 2400 with 110gr
of 4227, You could use 4759 and
VV110 also at lesser amounts.
Barrel is cylinder bore size.
Brenneke slugs need no wads as the
locked on wad works good.Ed

[hubel458]

In the long barrel 87 got 600 grain
Dixie over 2000, got a Buckhammer slug
I took out of factory load over 1900.
Buckhammer and locked on wad is 630
gr. Tested in 3" plastic cases.

The firing pin on the 87 didn't protude out
like I like them to as it comes from factory,
so I removed .015 from the hammer stop.
It fires big and small primers perfect.Ed

[hubel458]

10GA FH..a NEF 10ga, medium to heavy wt smooth barrel.
28" long, gun weighted to 14lbs. factory FED 765gr loads
are 1300 fps. 200 gr of first powder tested is 7383 surplus
and the regular shotgun primers got 765 gr to 1600,
for 4300 ft lbs. Case won't hold anymore 7383.
We will test 4227 with the same slug , and saboted slug
of some design. The 765 gr Fed slug is hollowbase for
smooth bores. Roll crimped with crimper in drill press.
Case expansion with 7383 very little(.006") like
the factory loads. 3.5" plastic cases.Ed

[hubel458]

By the way the 10ga Fed factory load has a tall
stack of wads and an over powder plastic wad,
that weigh a 135gr. Better to put in a
larger charge of slower powder,
with one over powder deal and get more velocity,
at same low skotgun pressures. These wads they
are twice as heavy as the lubed fiber wads
I use of the same thickness.Ed

[hubel458]

10GA FH info.Fed factory hollowbase slug is .025" smaller than
10ga bore. I bumped it up to the .775" size, by expanding
hollow base. With 7383 that gave another 150 fps.Fast starting
shotgun powders expand base better than much slower 7383.
The 7383 loads have longer pressure curve but doesn't get
to peak pressure as quick, but yet the area under the curve is greater
thus the better velocity.Ed

[hubel458]

Look real close at the bases of these
cases. What do you see. Comments...Ed

[madmike]

Looks like either magnum belted bases, or you used 20mm based threaded on.

[hubel458]

Mike-The left two are our 12GA FH cases we
built or "" invented"" by putting on rim hence the
seam. Others show nothing is ever new.
The others seem to be high strength drawn cases,
exactly same as ours. And no I didn't do them.Ed

[hubel458]

You have seen my posts on 8a kiln gun info. Well there are
companies that build 12ga size heavy barreled cannons for
disarming and/or blowing up bombs. They mount these barrels
on tripods, trailer, robot, etc, with triggering equipment and aiming
equipment and standoof to fire a variety of projectile at bombs, ied,
bomb packages, etc. These are called EOD disruptors, bomb disruptors,
etc. Some are using 12ga plastic cases like Royal Arms(google them)
does, with hopped up loads to 9000 ft lbs.One company, Proparms uses
the the brass cases like the three in pic above on the right. They are
exact match to our 12GA FH case we wildcatted. The guy we had
put the rims just retired. Proparms doesn't take these cases back for
reloading, and with about a 1000 of these in N America including military
there has got to be lots of empties. My googling shows they do lots of
training.So any of you who could get your fire, police, etc bomb squad
people to save these for us, we need the help. Proparms calls it their 20mm Neutrex. Cases usually have Proparms on it.There are many wanting to
do 12GA FH, but no brass source for them the way we was making them.
This same size case may supply the numbers. We only want fired cases.
Google- proparms, IED disruptors, bomb disruptors. It's Wild stuff.
The UK has had their type of little cannon type
of bomb disruptors for years, they call it PIGSTICK. Ed

[hubel458]

In 10GA NEF 110gr 4227 got 765gr slug
to 1800, ejected ok. If it was a really
heavy barrel it could do more.Using the
7383 surplus at 150 gr, don't even have
to resize to fire 3 times. The 28GA FH
done and testing in next couple weeks.Ed

[dscottw88]

hahaha, why is this thread still going? i think thats so funny. You speak words of truth however, that does look like a 12ga from hell. I'd hate to be the one stuck shooting that one all day. my arm would fall off!

[hubel458]

The testing and research I do is great fun and I like to
pass info along as well as getting the feedback from
others work and developement. For example what we
have done has gotton many guys into doing
long 20ga cartridges and hopped up 410 work. Ed

[RP88]

you could probably shoot a blank off of that and still blow someone's head off with the muzzle energy

[madmike]

Keep the info coming. The documentation is critical to history and development.

[hubel458]

Fired 28GA FH-- Cases extract easy.--It is
in bolt action Enfield. With 550gr jkt slug,
full load 150 gr of WC-860, got 1900 fps.
This will be slowest load and powder.
In picture is 3.25" brass 28ga cases, regular
28ga plastic case, jkt slugs, a 458Win
for comparison.Regular cases work also.Ed

[hubel458]

28ga cases are made by Rocky Mtn Cartridge,
Barrel is rifled with 4 grooves, 1-22 twist.
You could do one on Savage 210.Another
shotgun bolt action that would handle it
with little work, heavy barrel, is the
395-495-595-695 bolt action Mossberg.
Just show that 28GA FH isn't puny, here is
picture of it next to a 505 Gibbs.Ed

[hubel458]

Here is picture and info on Royal
Arms' site for hopped up 12ga loads,
used in little cannons for bomb work.
Anyone got any of these fired that I could inspect to see how they are built.ED

http://www.royalarms.com/EOD/ammo/canonammo.gif

[madmike]

I'm sure Aberdeen Proving Grounds does, but I'm not sure they'd shake even a fired one loose.