12GA Rifle From HELL-- - Page 19

hubel458 · January 19, 2008, 03:09 PM

Mike- I will check somehow. We also will be checking with
local bomb squads for these fired as well as the Brass
Proparms ones I pictured above that are like our brass.Ed

hubel458 · January 21, 2008, 12:26 AM

Here is picture for pump gun guys of a neat
Ithaca slug gun that should take hairy loads.Ed

2Ais4U · January 21, 2008, 04:23 PM

How much would one of these beasts run me?

Giolli Joker · January 21, 2008, 04:43 PM

Awesome!

PA1749 · January 21, 2008, 04:58 PM

Wow what a Slug

hubel458 · January 21, 2008, 08:40 PM

The Ithaca is over 1100 dollars, Great quality cost a little.
I think they will be over-run with orders.Ed

hubel458 · January 27, 2008, 11:05 AM

I like the Savage 210 so I'm putting
a 700 barrel on one and chambering for
my 700H 3.25 case. Working on it now.
Should get the same energy levels as
the 12GA From Hell case in same action.
In pic is 700H case in the action. Ed

hubel458 · January 30, 2008, 01:47 AM

Here is pic showing process of making my
700cases from BMG brass.Shows the steps,
first bmg case, next the belt formed, last case
expanded to 700 cal with slug.
An 06 case on right for comparison.Ed

hubel458 · January 30, 2008, 05:10 PM

Got a little 28GA FH testng done between storms.
Best powder so far for the 550 gr slug is RL-25.
Gets 2100 fps using 140gr. Extracts easy, doesn't
expand the base of the turned cases we are using.Ed

hubel458 · February 5, 2008, 11:07 PM

28GA FH research. Guy on other forum suggested using 54cal
rifled barrels for 28ga as they are easy to get. I looked into
it and did some testing. It is ok as long as you keep bullet
about 400gr as most 54cal barrels are not super alloy.
And everyone with 28ga wants slugs and there is no slug loads
from factory, and to reload the heavier bullets we shouldn't use
these barrels or regular 28ga barrels with 600-700 gr slugs.
But there are couple dozen 54cal bullets out there
stocked all over the gunstore shelves, in weights from 300 to
450 gr. There are heavier but for 28GA FH on deer 400gr is
great. I tested the 405 gr copper plated Powerbelt brand, with
velocities from 2300 to 2800 plus fps. That's 6500 ft lbs.
The 54cal slugs load tight in the RMC 3.25" 28ga case fine by
sizing top a little tighter. Bullet obturates to fit .550 bore
as bullet is hitting target straight. A lot of 54cal barrels
go from 530 to 560. 54cal slugs range from .534 to .560"
There are different sizes of 28ga barrels and chokes,
so some where there is lighter 54cal slug that fits..
And with light slugs the pressure limits with the MRC brass
match top muzzle loading pressures, so these barrels will work.
And great thing is the 54cal barrel guys ain't allergic
to making long barrels. I've shot one MRC case 15 times and
still going strong...Ed

hubel458 · February 7, 2008, 08:41 PM

In 28GA FH got 550 gr bullet to 2200 with IMR7828 powder.
This is top load with 550gr bullet without base expanding.
With the 405gr powerbelt loaded in plastic 2.75" 28ga cases,
got 1400. They fire in same chamber. Copper plated powerbelt
doesn't lead the barrel even with fast loads from long
brass case. Who'd a thunk, a 28ga big blaster deer gun.Ed

icebones · February 10, 2008, 09:22 PM

frinkin' awsome
i got to get me one of those incase that mutant t-rex comes into my yard again!!!!

ever heard of a 4 gauge?

hubel458 · February 11, 2008, 01:11 AM

Yep we built 4bore cases out of 20mm Vulcan brass.
They are the same dimensions as the 4bore cases that
go in the doubles that Owen built in TN, a .998-1.00" bore.
Here is pic with cases and 2000gr slugs.On the right
is original 20 mm and an 06 for comparison. We plan on
a 4bore gun in future.Ed

madmike · February 11, 2008, 02:16 AM

I want to see 000 bore

hubel458 · February 11, 2008, 11:05 AM

Mike --Lets see a triple ought bore would be an
eight pounder on wheels. Might take you and me to fire
it, and you being the mad one, would hold it down while I
I would do the trigger. On a long rope. Someday I may
build a cannon out in the yard.Ed

paintballdude902 · February 11, 2008, 04:56 PM

hey hubel i got a q for yah

did you have anyproblems with any being classified as destructive devices?

i dont see a whole lot of sporting use with these so it got me wondering

akodo · February 11, 2008, 06:35 PM

ed,

you really need to get the video camera out and then shoot some more of those 6 gallon paint pails full of water, then post it on youtube

hubel458 · February 11, 2008, 08:49 PM

We plan on a video when cam is here in good weather.Our
problem is our barb wire fence phone line isn't conducive
to moving videos around. I think I can get the isp in town to
do it Or a one of the relatives with dsl.

DDs explained. Shotguns are exempt under Title 18 GCA-Sec 921.
All shotguns exempt except for a few named ones that you register
class 3 and pay tax. Can be smooth or rifled, any projectile except
explosive, cases can be paper, plastic, aluminum, steel, brass,
cases can be any length. Barrels stamped with gauge and chamber
length. Long chambers must fire shorter cases. IE, you can't take
a 30mm and neck it to 12ga size and make an exempt 12ga.
You can lenthen a 2.75" chamber to 3", to 3.5", to our 3,85 ",
to 4", to 4.5", etc. And if you have a long chamber you can fire
any shorter case legaly, like you can fire a 1.5 ich case in a 3"
chamber, or our 3.85 " chamber. And the name we give then has no
legal standing, whether From Hell, Paradox. Magnum, Express,
Super Duper, Jamison( his would be inch and a quarter, hahah).....
For my 700 case I applied under a different part of same
section and got an exemption from destructive devices
for sporting use, and listed as such, as are all over 50 cal
sporting cases whether NEs, SSKs, AHRs, etc...Ed

Vicious-Peanut · February 11, 2008, 09:28 PM

Wow, this is very cool. Some huge numbers are coming out of these!

hubel458 · February 12, 2008, 01:12 PM

What it boils down to is--Shotgun cases have large capacities,
good efficiency, and once we make cases and guns stronger
to use the capacity and efficiency, you get big power. Secret we
have have been looking for in the process is to be able to
do it affordable.Ed

hubel458 · February 14, 2008, 12:47 AM

The Hornady Great Plains 54 cal ML lubed slug is a
perfect 28ga slug. My rifled barrel is .550, the
Great plains is .550" at the front. It has decent length
with hollowbase, weighing 425gr. Got velocities in long
brass case from 2000 to 2700. Ed

hubel458 · February 18, 2008, 11:15 PM

Tested the 415 gr hollowbase slugs in 28GA FH long
brass case. These are ones that Dixie Gunworks sell
that they call their Sharps .548" slug. They all run
about .008 bigger than that so they make perfect tight
fit for .550" barrel, and I used a good lube on them
in the grooves. Same speeds as above for GPs.
They are a little harder alloy slug than
the Powerbelts or Great Plains The 28ga shellholder
for our Lee, Lyman, Rcbs presses , we use, is from
RCBS for regular metallic press rams. For 28ga dies
Hollywood made some for metallic presses.Also for
sizing for bottom 2/3 of the brass case you can cut
top off of the 500J die.The slower powder loads don't
even have to have the bottom half sized, which
is great for a turned case. If we had drawn brass cases
we could get 11,000 ft lbs, in the Enfield, which we
don't really need for deer. 4-6000 ft lbs ok/deer ..Ed
__________________

hubel458 · February 23, 2008, 10:05 PM

I get asked about hopping up 410s with brass cases.
A good drawn case is 9.3 x 74R. It'll work in 3"
410 chambers or shortened for shorter chambers.
I am not doing any just passing on info.Ed

Matt304 · February 23, 2008, 11:29 PM

Something that sounds interesting to me...

Take a side-by-side 28ga, then replace barrels with thick 410 rifled barrels for the full brass cases. Sounds like an interesting double-rifle build if the labor isn't too bad.

madmike · February 24, 2008, 01:39 AM

The problems would be breech strength, and regulating the barrels. Rifles are pickier than shotguns.

I'd love a nice double, too, but I don't think cheap ones are possible.

January 19, 2008, 03:09 PM	#451
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	Mike- I will check somehow. We also will be checking with local bomb squads for these fired as well as the Brass Proparms ones I pictured above that are like our brass.Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

January 21, 2008, 12:26 AM	#452
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	Here is picture for pump gun guys of a neat Ithaca slug gun that should take hairy loads.Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

January 21, 2008, 04:23 PM	#453
2Ais4U Registration in progress Join Date: December 29, 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 138	How much would one of these beasts run me? __________________ "The man who comes to take my firearms will be treated the same as the man who comes to take my life" I survive entirely on caffeine and HATE.

January 21, 2008, 04:43 PM	#454
Giolli Joker Member Join Date: January 3, 2005 Location: Genova - Italy Posts: 147	Awesome! __________________ I'm Italian, that's why my English isn't good... I apologize for my possible mistakes. :-) Fast Accurate Reliable

January 21, 2008, 04:58 PM	#455
PA1749 Member Join Date: April 19, 2006 Posts: 16	wow Wow what a Slug

January 21, 2008, 08:40 PM	#456
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	The Ithaca is over 1100 dollars, Great quality cost a little. I think they will be over-run with orders.Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

January 27, 2008, 11:05 AM	#457
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	I like the Savage 210 so I'm putting a 700 barrel on one and chambering for my 700H 3.25 case. Working on it now. Should get the same energy levels as the 12GA From Hell case in same action. In pic is 700H case in the action. Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

January 30, 2008, 01:47 AM	#458
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	Here is pic showing process of making my 700cases from BMG brass.Shows the steps, first bmg case, next the belt formed, last case expanded to 700 cal with slug. An 06 case on right for comparison.Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

January 30, 2008, 05:10 PM	#459
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	Got a little 28GA FH testng done between storms. Best powder so far for the 550 gr slug is RL-25. Gets 2100 fps using 140gr. Extracts easy, doesn't expand the base of the turned cases we are using.Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

February 5, 2008, 11:07 PM	#460
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	28GA FH research. Guy on other forum suggested using 54cal rifled barrels for 28ga as they are easy to get. I looked into it and did some testing. It is ok as long as you keep bullet about 400gr as most 54cal barrels are not super alloy. And everyone with 28ga wants slugs and there is no slug loads from factory, and to reload the heavier bullets we shouldn't use these barrels or regular 28ga barrels with 600-700 gr slugs. But there are couple dozen 54cal bullets out there stocked all over the gunstore shelves, in weights from 300 to 450 gr. There are heavier but for 28GA FH on deer 400gr is great. I tested the 405 gr copper plated Powerbelt brand, with velocities from 2300 to 2800 plus fps. That's 6500 ft lbs. The 54cal slugs load tight in the RMC 3.25" 28ga case fine by sizing top a little tighter. Bullet obturates to fit .550 bore as bullet is hitting target straight. A lot of 54cal barrels go from 530 to 560. 54cal slugs range from .534 to .560" There are different sizes of 28ga barrels and chokes, so some where there is lighter 54cal slug that fits.. And with light slugs the pressure limits with the MRC brass match top muzzle loading pressures, so these barrels will work. And great thing is the 54cal barrel guys ain't allergic to making long barrels. I've shot one MRC case 15 times and still going strong...Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

February 7, 2008, 08:41 PM	#461
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	In 28GA FH got 550 gr bullet to 2200 with IMR7828 powder. This is top load with 550gr bullet without base expanding. With the 405gr powerbelt loaded in plastic 2.75" 28ga cases, got 1400. They fire in same chamber. Copper plated powerbelt doesn't lead the barrel even with fast loads from long brass case. Who'd a thunk, a 28ga big blaster deer gun.Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

February 10, 2008, 09:22 PM	#462
icebones Member Join Date: February 2, 2008 Location: You ain't from around here, KY Posts: 585	frinkin' awsome i got to get me one of those incase that mutant t-rex comes into my yard again!!!! ever heard of a 4 gauge?

February 11, 2008, 01:11 AM	#463
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	Yep we built 4bore cases out of 20mm Vulcan brass. They are the same dimensions as the 4bore cases that go in the doubles that Owen built in TN, a .998-1.00" bore. Here is pic with cases and 2000gr slugs.On the right is original 20 mm and an 06 for comparison. We plan on a 4bore gun in future.Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

February 11, 2008, 02:16 AM	#464
madmike Member Join Date: January 5, 2003 Location: In a well-equipped suburban bunker Posts: 2,088	I want to see 000 bore __________________ http://SharpPointyThings.com http://www.MichaelZWilliamson.com FREEHOLD, Jan 04 from Baen Books THE WEAPON, Aug 05 from Baen Books CONFIRMED KILL, Sep 05 from HarperCollins BETTER TO BEG FORGIVENESS..., Winter 07 from Baen Books ~~~ "The Finest battle implement ever devised." Ung the Caveman on the M1 Pointy Stick.

February 11, 2008, 11:05 AM	#465
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	Mike --Lets see a triple ought bore would be an eight pounder on wheels. Might take you and me to fire it, and you being the mad one, would hold it down while I I would do the trigger. On a long rope. Someday I may build a cannon out in the yard.Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

February 11, 2008, 04:56 PM	#466
paintballdude902 Member Join Date: June 30, 2007 Location: eastern NC is home but florida is base Posts: 2,724	hey hubel i got a q for yah did you have anyproblems with any being classified as destructive devices? i dont see a whole lot of sporting use with these so it got me wondering __________________ I'm willing to die trying to keep them; Are you willing to die trying to take them? The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams.-Eleanor Roosevelt

February 11, 2008, 06:35 PM	#467
akodo Member Join Date: August 31, 2005 Posts: 2,642	ed, you really need to get the video camera out and then shoot some more of those 6 gallon paint pails full of water, then post it on youtube

February 11, 2008, 08:49 PM	#468
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	We plan on a video when cam is here in good weather.Our problem is our barb wire fence phone line isn't conducive to moving videos around. I think I can get the isp in town to do it Or a one of the relatives with dsl. DDs explained. Shotguns are exempt under Title 18 GCA-Sec 921. All shotguns exempt except for a few named ones that you register class 3 and pay tax. Can be smooth or rifled, any projectile except explosive, cases can be paper, plastic, aluminum, steel, brass, cases can be any length. Barrels stamped with gauge and chamber length. Long chambers must fire shorter cases. IE, you can't take a 30mm and neck it to 12ga size and make an exempt 12ga. You can lenthen a 2.75" chamber to 3", to 3.5", to our 3,85 ", to 4", to 4.5", etc. And if you have a long chamber you can fire any shorter case legaly, like you can fire a 1.5 ich case in a 3" chamber, or our 3.85 " chamber. And the name we give then has no legal standing, whether From Hell, Paradox. Magnum, Express, Super Duper, Jamison( his would be inch and a quarter, hahah)..... For my 700 case I applied under a different part of same section and got an exemption from destructive devices for sporting use, and listed as such, as are all over 50 cal sporting cases whether NEs, SSKs, AHRs, etc...Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

February 11, 2008, 09:28 PM	#469
Vicious-Peanut Member Join Date: August 21, 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 670	Wow, this is very cool. Some huge numbers are coming out of these!

February 12, 2008, 01:12 PM	#470
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	What it boils down to is--Shotgun cases have large capacities, good efficiency, and once we make cases and guns stronger to use the capacity and efficiency, you get big power. Secret we have have been looking for in the process is to be able to do it affordable.Ed __________________ Ed Hubel. Last edited by hubel458; February 14, 2008 at 12:50 AM.

February 14, 2008, 12:47 AM	#471
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	The Hornady Great Plains 54 cal ML lubed slug is a perfect 28ga slug. My rifled barrel is .550, the Great plains is .550" at the front. It has decent length with hollowbase, weighing 425gr. Got velocities in long brass case from 2000 to 2700. Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

February 18, 2008, 11:15 PM	#472
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	Tested the 415 gr hollowbase slugs in 28GA FH long brass case. These are ones that Dixie Gunworks sell that they call their Sharps .548" slug. They all run about .008 bigger than that so they make perfect tight fit for .550" barrel, and I used a good lube on them in the grooves. Same speeds as above for GPs. They are a little harder alloy slug than the Powerbelts or Great Plains The 28ga shellholder for our Lee, Lyman, Rcbs presses , we use, is from RCBS for regular metallic press rams. For 28ga dies Hollywood made some for metallic presses.Also for sizing for bottom 2/3 of the brass case you can cut top off of the 500J die.The slower powder loads don't even have to have the bottom half sized, which is great for a turned case. If we had drawn brass cases we could get 11,000 ft lbs, in the Enfield, which we don't really need for deer. 4-6000 ft lbs ok/deer ..Ed __________________ __________________ Ed Hubel.

February 23, 2008, 10:05 PM	#473
hubel458 Member Join Date: March 1, 2003 Location: Brinton,Mich. Posts: 525	I get asked about hopping up 410s with brass cases. A good drawn case is 9.3 x 74R. It'll work in 3" 410 chambers or shortened for shorter chambers. I am not doing any just passing on info.Ed __________________ Ed Hubel.

February 23, 2008, 11:29 PM	#474
Matt304 Member Join Date: September 19, 2006 Location: Utica, IL Posts: 621	Something that sounds interesting to me... Take a side-by-side 28ga, then replace barrels with thick 410 rifled barrels for the full brass cases. Sounds like an interesting double-rifle build if the labor isn't too bad.

February 24, 2008, 01:39 AM	#475
madmike Member Join Date: January 5, 2003 Location: In a well-equipped suburban bunker Posts: 2,088	The problems would be breech strength, and regulating the barrels. Rifles are pickier than shotguns. I'd love a nice double, too, but I don't think cheap ones are possible. __________________ http://SharpPointyThings.com http://www.MichaelZWilliamson.com FREEHOLD, Jan 04 from Baen Books THE WEAPON, Aug 05 from Baen Books CONFIRMED KILL, Sep 05 from HarperCollins BETTER TO BEG FORGIVENESS..., Winter 07 from Baen Books ~~~ "The Finest battle implement ever devised." Ung the Caveman on the M1 Pointy Stick.