12GA Rifle From HELL--

[Gordon]

I want that! What kind of 'Borchardt' action is that? Where can I find the build specs for the action? ?

[hubel458]

Gordon--Borchardt Rifle Co in NM -- They built action
to start with for 50bmg. It is real heavy and strong,
take more pressure than any brass would.505-535-2923.It
is the biggest falling block you can get.Ed.

[GrammatonCleric]

That is an absolute BEAST!! I now know what to bring with me on my Tyrannosaur hunting trip. (If Jurassic Park ever becomes a reality.)

[only1asterisk]

Ed,

Good to see you posting on THR again!

How are you keeping stock and action together under all that recoil?

David

[Optical Serenity]

Now that is one serious rifle! I like the idea of an "upgraded" 12 gauge! Great job guys...I look forward to seeing muzzle energy numbers.

[Third_Rail]

You're my hero.

[hubel458]

My stock and action staying together so far.
My top energy load is about 11,900 ft lbs.
Rob's top energy load is 15,000 ft lbs.Ed.

[cpileri]

Do you mind me asking how much that big boy cost?

C-

[pete f]

some years ago, when "slug zone" meant 75 yard accuracy with the model 12 and a full choke duck barrel, we tried to make an improvement. The guy iw worked with had a old rolling block in some obscure BP cartridge, I think it was a 11.something egyptian, but that may havejust been one of the options, well we figured that a 20 gq was only a few thousandths bigger than the case head for that chambering. we opened the chamber to fit a 20gq and the creature would extract and so we figured ok why not.
he called around and found someone who had un turned 20 ga barrels and had one rifled. (this was before you could find them on the open market) after fitting and chambering, we loaded some 338 cal bullets in a improvised sabot, loaded up a few rounds and were extremely disappointed, They seemed more like squibs than rull power loads. we decided to try to increase the diameter of the teflon rod OD in order to get a beter burn rate after going up and gett better but still not great performance we then made one that wasa almost a crush fit into the lands and then set that off....BINGO nice big boom, little smoke not a lot of grunge left in the barrel. in the end we were getting something like 2100 fps with 225 gr 338 bullet and accurate to 2 inches at 100 yard, 4 inches at two hundred yards all of a sudden all those big field deer that had walked past us knowing we could not touch them were fair game. this gun was used for several years till he started playing with some mauser (siamese) and 28 ga cases and some smoking loads. It was great fun while it lasted.
I do know that in the 28 guage, he ended up using paper cases because surprisingly they withstood presure better. I think he was using 45 70 305 grainer bullets at 45 70 velocity out of a 28 ga casing.

That lead to some one making a barrel insert for a 20 Ga single that would allow it to shoot 45 70 rounds, that however got taken by the DNR, for violating the shottie only zone. but the barrel insert actually worked quite well. There was a savage 4tenner tube at the store and that was used as a model on a blank that was chambered for 45 70. This was all done by real gunsmiths and machinists, none of this should be done unless you KNOW you have the skill to do it. Most of the test firing was done in a vise with a sand blanket over the weapon. I am not a smith but can handle a mill and lathe and was under supervision on all that i did.

[hubel458]

Mine costs 600 bucks as I did my own work,
had 20 dollar big stock, and 50 dollar barrel
that was a second, and gun was 400 bucks.
Rob's cost over 3 grand as action was 2 grand.Ed

[madmike]

But let me know when you want a bayonet for it

[Spiggy]

you mean a lance adapter!

-I'm speechless...

So next time Godzilla thinks he can stroll on over, he'll think twice

[cpileri]

so its basically a 12ga shotgun, with a looooooong chamber; and a beefed up/reinforced receiver which uses brass shells and loadings include the slug sticking out ahead of the case mouth unstead of being within it as in a normal sg load?
A 12ga Super-Duper magnum!
C-

p.s. so, where do i get one!

p.p.s. on the 28ga, did you use a sabot with the 45-70 projectiles?

[Old Fuff]

I believe that the Savage shotgun action only locks on the bolt handle, and lacks other locking lugs. I would be a bit careful there...

[hubel458]

Old Fuff--It realy is strong and safe--Savage 210 has a
3 lug bolt head,,They took the regular Savage 110
rifle bolt handle and bolt body and put a large diameter
bolt head on it with 3 lugs---And it is all carried in a
3 sided bolt carrier--And action is fairly large--
I opened loading port to over 4 iches long--changed bolt stop
to handle cases 1 inch longer than 3 inch mag 12ga shells..
And our chamber will still fire regular short shotshells,
Here is picture of Savage bolt next to the Enfield bolt
ou of my 458HE,to show how big it is.Ed.

[madmike]

Originally Posted by Spiggy

you mean a lance adapter!

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=94430

pretty much

[MrTwigg]

When you gonna it make an auto?

[hubel458]

MrTwigg--Then it would really be a handful-

cpilari-It really is super, that's why Rob named it
12GA From Hell....When you think about it here is a
Savage shotgun action putting out more power than
460wea,510ASq,600NE ,577NE, 700NE,Trex,etc.
Super is the word.Ed.

[madmike]

Too bad it's .72 12 gauge and not slightly larger, say, 10 gauge...

Anyone else channeling Johnny Dangerously?

Danny Vermin: "It's an .88 magnum. It shoots through schools."

"This goes through armor. And the victim. And the wall behind him. And a tree outside..."

[hubel458]

Madmike--It is .729 groove diameter.The action could
do a ten guage as rim and base is only .050 inch bigger.
As long as you use heavy thick barrel like we did,
with ten guage bore of .775..There is no brass though,
that could be converted to a long brass 10ga case like
we did for 12ga.Ed.

[Lupinus]

I want it to have my children

[Sir Aardvark]

Truly, it is a monster!

So when does the 10 gauge version come out?

[P95Carry]

Aardvark - see back three or so posts ago -

It is .729 groove diameter.The action could
do a ten guage as rim and base is only .050 inch bigger.
As long as you use heavy thick barrel like we did,
with ten guage bore of .775..There is no brass though,
that could be converted to a long brass 10ga case like
we did for 12ga.Ed.

[hubel458]

P95--The only thing that could work is 50cal russian,but they are Berdan primed and takes too much money to get them and
convert them as well as put on a rim..Rob,John, I and
others have done a lot of this stuff, and it gets to
be a expensive pain with berdan cases.Ed.

[only1asterisk]

Ed,

The Savage could take smaller cases, like maybe 600 NE at full pressure, right? In fact if I read correctly, one may even be able to make it feed a round or 2 from the magazine. Seems like a chep way to get some recoil therapy.


David