12GA Rifle From HELL--

[hubel458]

A fellow in Texas picked up a Tula-Toz 4bore
pump gun like Big Al has. He is getting some
of the 3 inch brass 4ga cases from RMC.
RMC still has them if anyone needs them.
That gun takes a short 4ga case, either brass
or plastic if you can find them.
Pic is Al's gun.Bolt has 4 locking lugs...ED

[hubel458]

Here are pictures of the Falling Block breech block.
Front and side view....Notice the integral bottom
extensions are narrower than the top. These are
what the linkage is inside of and when breech is
levered down these fit though the slot in the stock.
And being narrower the slot isn't too wide so the
stock has enough strength. Botton extensions same
width for all action sizes.Just top different
for the size of action needed for big cartridges.
This breech is little rough as it has had a dozen
changes to it. But it holds a load in 4 bore
of 1500gr over 2600.Ed

[hubel458]

Some more slug ideas--First picture of 10ga 830gr
hollow base slug in 8ga wad cup, And 690gr hollowbase
69 caliber Dixie Gunworks slug that I swaged down a
little, in a 12ga wad cup.
2nd picture is the a new offering from the EU,a
new 300gr US-S slug with locked on base, discarding
petals, by European Cartridge. Accurate in smooth bores.
In 3" plastic they load to over 2100 with shotgun
powders. In a 3.5" plastic and our slower powders
I could get over 2800. Ed

[Dave McCracken]

2800 FPS!!??

Oy vay ist mer.....

[hubel458]

It is really not that hard with such a light bullet in 3.5" case.
We got almost that much with 440gr slug in BPI sabot.
European Cartridge plans on that 300gr at 2500 with
shotgun powders, un 3.5" plastic cases.
A 12ga has a huge potential in a heavy barrel gun
and long cases. Holds lots of our slower powder.ED

[Dave McCracken]

Ed, I'm just glad nothing I need to shoot needs that level of Whoomph.

Fun to play with,though. Do you call it the 729 Armegeddon Express?

[madmike]

Fun to play with,though. Do you call it the 729 Armegeddon Express?

I petitioned for .729 Redneck.

[hubel458]

Rob maybe got it right when he picked 12GA From He!! name.,
It has inspired a lot people including US-S slug folks
as that slug in picture is AL with brass center, something
Rob and others experimented with on here earlier..Ed

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Would this be enough for rabbit hunting?

[madmike]

Yes. In Ohio. From Missouri.

[Got_Lead?]

That baby makes the .50 BMG look like a toy. Just out of curosity, what kind of a load are you shooting?

[madmike]

He lists several loads throughout the thread, though it is a long one.

[Ruger745]

You can actually get the Tula 4 bores here???? Learn something new everyday

[madmike]

You could get them. I don't think you can anymore.

[hubel458]

They brought in less than a hundred Tulas and no cases at all.
That US-S pointed slug with discarding petals,
and locked on base, shown above is called the
Swift 12. And correction on the weight, it is 320 gr.
And they plan on testing and maybe supplying 3.5"
versions, planning on getting around 2500 fps with
shotgun powders. I know in our 3.85" case in the long
barrel Savage, I could get over 3000 with big amounts
of our slower powders we load with.Also here is picture
of those copper tubing caps that you can make bullet
jackets out of, and fill with lead.I picture you see
a rough one I formed with punch, and with a die they be
perfectly formed. And on the right see big caps that
would do 4 bore.There are caps between the two sizes
that would do 8ga...Ed

[hubel458]

More 12gs slug/sabot info-- About discarding sabots.
Most factories making sabot slugs make them relatively light,
300 to 350 grains, and that is why they are on average
more accurate than what guys try to reload with heavier
slugs in the sabots. Reason is light slugs don't damage
the sabot, while they are trying for high velocity.
Example is picture of Hornady SST sabot and it only has
a one way plastic seal over powder, and a hard
rubber cushion inside the sabot under the 300gr jkt
spitzer style slug. Many 12ga hunters say these are
the most accurate.

Another slug idea is a blunt nose jacketed slug of
675gr I made from one of RG's hollow point jkt slugs.
I cut part of jacket off of the front and swaged
it over to make blunt nose. These are for the guys
trying to make short loaded brass case rounds
in 2.5" brass and 2.62" brass to be no more than
2.75" overall to work in certain guns. it is
on left, 2nd pic. On right is US-S sabot with locked
on base we tried in short brass case, and can't, due
to length of sabot get in enough powder to get
the higher velocity with heavy US-S the
guy wants.....ED

[hubel458]

Here is picture some folks wanted of our
big cases with smaller 30-06 for comparison.
In picture, 1st my 2ga, 4ga, 8ga, 10ga, 12ga,
my 700HE long case, my 700H 3.25", and 06.

2nd picture is short 2 5/8" brass cases we
are checking loads in, to see how much speed
can be gotten.You can easily see the length of
short full bore lead slug, compared to the
saboted ones, allowing more powder in the short
slug load for more speed..

Now this doesn't mean saboted are no good, or
that I don't like these saboted types. Great for
smooth bores, the US-S with locked on base, are
the best there is, I think, for big game.Just
got to use longer cases. I always felt, that going
longer cases is worth the effort where practical ED

[Ole Humpback]

Ok, curiosity has got the better part of me. Would one of those all brass 3" 12ga rounds be able to work in a semi-auto action such as the Browning Gold Fusion without wrecking the gun?

Do you call it the 729 Armegeddon Express?

Dave, since Holland & Holland originally introduced the 375 H&H Mag as the 375 Belted Rimless Nitro Express, perhaps these would make a more sporting and awesome sounding name:

12 Bore Rimmed Nitro Express or 729 Flanged Nitro Express

[hubel458]

If Browning has a 3" chamber you'd use 2.5 to 2.62" brass with
slug protruding a little. Have to keep length the same as
crimped plastic 3" case, about 2.7".

As far as shooting the loads in those
short cases we do are no more pressure than super magnum
turkey loads, so gun will fire them ok. Maybe only problem may be feeding
without the front edge of the case catching.Ed

[Ole Humpback]

If the front lip of the case caught on anything, think a very fine chamfer and very slight inward crimp would would solve the issue? I'm highly interested in these loads now. How fast is one of those slugs moving from that brass?

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Speed of light?

[CrankyOldGuy]

Fast enought for hunting dump trucks.

[hubel458]

The full bore 600gr slug about 1800 with 90gr
of IMR 4759 powder.Same speed as a 3" crimped plastic
case, at 2.7" long crimped/ short 22" barrel..Ed

[hubel458]

Here is picture of my big 585 cases.
30-06 for size comparison.
3rd is 585HE - I have it in bolt, falling block,
break, etc, actions.

1st is 585 Hubel Super Magnum - Designed
for strong bolt guns. Have in a MRC PH.
Can get 20,000 ft lbs.

2nd 585 Rimmed Hubel Magnum and I have it
now as a single shot in an 1887 Win.
The 87 has a 30" heavy barrel. Case is
designed to use in break actions and run about
25,000 psi, but due to the size of the case
has enough powder so can get 15,000 ft lbs.
It's 4" long, could be called 24ga FHEd

[hubel458]

ome 10ga experimenting with slug loads.
In NEF with 32" factory, long bull barrel.
It is smooth so we use hollowbase slugs

Cases FED 3.5" plastic cases, roll crimped.
900gr full bore slugs -180 gr RE17- 1800 plus.
Use plastic powder seal and fiber wads.
Slug hollowbase and hard cast.

740gr 69cal hollowbase soft lead slug, in VP100
10 ga wadcup. Deep hollowbase Cup has it own seal
and cushion. 180 gr RE17 -- 2000+ fps.

Here are pictures of a couple other different guns in
my long 585HE cartridge.. 1st is Olympic Arms
BBK bolt gun, in a target style stock with palm
swell pistol grip...2nd is the one I made on a CBC
single shot by mono-blocking in a heavy 585 cal
barrel. Barrels- 1.32" at breech- 1.070 muzzle.Ed