Did secret service accidentally fire fatal shot to JFK's head

[Michael Courtney]

A careful reconstruction of the scene based on photographs and movies conclusively showed that the motorcycle in question was not where it needed to be to support the acoustic expert's original assessment of the shot location. And the officer riding the motorcycle has repeatedly asserted that his radio was working perfectly and that the mike was not stuck open.

The evidence against the acoustical analysis is quite substantial at this point. The scene reconstruction is airtight and invalidates the original evaluation of the recording.

1. Reconstruction shows that the motorcycle was not placed as required for the assessment to be valid.
2. Officer immediately denied and continues to maintain that his mike was not stuck open.
3. Acoustic evidence suggests that the motorcycle was not moving since the engine remained at idle.
4. Crosstalk suggests that the recording was not made at the time of the shooting. While the recording media may have been overdubbed, it is highly unlikely that it would have been overdubbed immediately--particularly on the day of a presidential visit after an assassination attempt just took place.

At the VERY least, a new assessment and analysis needs to be performed given that it has been proven that the motorcycle was not placed as previously thought.

I agree, the original acoustic analysis suggesting a grassy knoll shooter is flawed. My points above are that if the audio contains the unique acoustic signature of the gun shots, the possibility remains for future analysis. However, the unknown location of the open microphone complicates the analysis tremendously, as does the uncertainty of the time base.

There is nothing in the NAS acoustic analysis that indicates that all the shots came from the book depository. As I have said before, the current status of the acoustic analysis of the event is inconclusive, neither supporting a lone gunman theory nor supporting a second gunman theory.

Michael Courtney

[LAK]

There is a distinct difference between the audio sound signature of gunshots and their reverberations and "cross talk". The idea that the gov appointed experts did an amateur job because their findings contradict the govs' official fable is an interesting idea, but the official fable ignores, omits or distorts so much else it is ridiculous.

National Geographic is a, shall we say, publication with an agenda not that far removed - if at all - from those who had and continue to hold the status quo.

The fact is, the bullet that we are led to believe struck Kennedy in the back of the head had no exit wound. That's some magic bullet; unless we are to believe it spent itself bouncing around the inside of Kennedy's skull. Perhaps they "lost" it along with what was left of Kennedy's brain

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[usp9]

LAK said:
"There is a distinct difference between the audio sound signature of gunshots and their reverberations and "cross talk". The idea that the gov appointed experts did an amateur job because their findings contradict the govs' official fable is an interesting idea, but the official fable ignores, omits or distorts so much else it is ridiculous.

National Geographic is a, shall we say, publication with an agenda not that far removed - if at all - from those who had and continue to hold the status quo.

The fact is, the bullet that we are led to believe struck Kennedy in the back of the head had no exit wound. That's some magic bullet; unless we are to believe it spent itself bouncing around the inside of Kennedy's skull. Perhaps they "lost" it along with what was left of Kennedy's brain"


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What exacly is the agenda of the National Geographic Society? My wife has worked there for thirty years and had a good laugh at your comment. To anyone who knows, that was a really absurd statement.

Kennedy's brain is not lost, a fact "lost" on the grossly misinformed conspiracy buffs (CBs). You can lead a CB to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

[LAK]

National Geographic? Basically, they worship at the feet of the U.N. and all things connected. Nearly always excellent to superb photography, some excellent natural history content etc. But their geo-political article content rarely if ever offends the sensibilities of the global villagers, and their journalism concerning some longstanding trouble spots in the world ignore or omit what is both common knowledge and historically recorded.

And on the subject of Kennedy; perhaps you can then tell us coincidence buffs then where the exit wound was on Kennedy's face. The bullet path, from the entrance at the back to where it exits the brain at the front will indicate this clearly. We can then pull up the autopsy photos and see the gaping exit hole there that we have missed all these years.

Let me guess; it was his open mouth - hence no visible exit wound

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[TexasRifleman]

Let me guess; it was his open mouth - hence no visible exit wound

Well, a politician with an open mouth would certainly be plausible.

[Vern Humphrey]

I have seen in a number of different places, that based on the engine sounds on the tape, at no time during the recording is the bike MOVING, the only engine sounds are those of an engine idling. this in and of it's self, even without the cross talk, refutes the "experts" since their placement of the motorcycle isn't supported by a cycle at a dead stop.

Plus i beleive the Motorcycle officer the tape traced back to has gone on record in the past saying, that he was not where the "experts" say he was. further his personal veiw is that the recording used was a section of tape corresponding to his presence at the hospital AFTER the shooting. since at that point he WOULD have been at idle and btw it roughly corresponds to when the Dallas Co. Sheriff transmission was made.

All true. The "acoustic evidence" requires a True Believer who is willing to ignore all the evidence against this tape actually recording the shots.

[iocane]

Why did Ruby shoot oswald. Heres a possibility, Oswald had spent years in the USSR, was a ardent communist. If he had lived to testify at his own trial he would have been doing some loud ranting about the evils of capitalism. So kill oswald no world war three.

[LAK]

Jack Ruby worked for Richard Nixon in 1947 when Nixon was a Senator. When Nixon was forced to resign as President, it was not simply "because of the Watergate scandal", but because of his obstruction of the FBI investigation into E. Howard Hunt, one of Nixon's longtime associates.

Hunt had a very personal interest in the actual break-in, and unfortunately for him, other copies of his main concern - some very incriminating photographs - broke as part of a news story at a later time, and in a subsequent lawsuit.

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[capnrik]

Upon its release in 1964, all files of the Warren Commission were sealed away from public view for 75 years (until 2039) by executive order of President Lyndon B. Johnson.

I was only eleven years old in 1964, and so I didn't understand the reasons for that order.

Now, I'm 53 years old, and I still don't understand the reason.

If the Warren Commission decided that there was one lone gunman, how come my son gets to see the files, and I don't?

[el44vaquero]

Interesting theory. Jane Fonda really did it (dressed as the Easter Bunny).

[Vern Humphrey]

Upon its release in 1964, all files of the Warren Commission were sealed away from public view for 75 years (until 2039) by executive order of President Lyndon B. Johnson.

I was only eleven years old in 1964, and so I didn't understand the reasons for that order.

Now, I'm 53 years old, and I still don't understand the reason.

If the Warren Commission decided that there was one lone gunman, how come my son gets to see the files, and I don't?

By no means all of the Warren Commission files are closed to the public -- and those that are closed are open to serious investigators.

Files like that are closed for two reasons -- first of all, because many people are mentioned, most of whom are perfectly innocent, but all sorts of embarrassing details of their lives were reviewed in detail. Would you like to have a file opened that says your father was involved in a homosexual relationship -- based on rumors?

Secondly, the Kennedy family does have a right to privacy.

To take an example, there are detailed drawings and photographs of Kennedy's wounds. The family does not want them made public. However, a decade or so ago, the doctors who examined Kennedy in Dallas were allowed into a room where they could examine these drawings and photographs, and they came out saying that the drawings and photographs were correct. One of the doctors, after seeing this evidence, said that his written statements soon afterwards were in error.

[JohnKSa]

Originally Posted by LAK

Jack Ruby worked for Richard Nixon in 1947 when Nixon was a Senator.

Gonna need a link or citation for that one...

This wouldn't be related to the 1947 FBI document "discovered" in 1975 by an unnamed "scholar", would it? The one that the FBI claims is a fake?

I particularly like the part about how a "scholar" found the document. No name, no other information--just a "scholar"...

[LAK]

JohnKSa,

I don't have a link for it on the web as that is not from where I saw it; and it may have been 1975 - or later. There were actually several memos/items related to the Kennedy murder that caused a storm when they surfaced. This is just one of them.

As far the "scholar" is concerned, I do not know whether he or she was a "scholar" or not.

Vern Humphrey,

I'd almost bet the farm that the people in and surrounding the circle of friends that murdered John F Kennedy have enough on Edward to put him out of politics for good, if not in prison. No wonder "the Kennedy family" doesn't want certain material released - and no wonder Edward is such a co-operative figure in the political world.

No doubt some people involved might not want some embarrassing material released for the sake of their personal privacy etc. But that does not excuse all the other material being held back. It can't all be "personal" matters now can it?

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[JohnBT]

http://crimemagazine.com/03/richardnixon,1014.htm

Paragraph 15 among others gives some of the purported Nixon/Ruby history.

John

[Eleven Mike]

Gonna need a link or citation for that one...

I don't have a link for it on the web as that is not from where I saw it; and it may have been 1975 - or later. There were actually several memos/items related to the Kennedy murder that caused a storm when they surfaced. This is just one of them.

As far the "scholar" is concerned, I do not know whether he or she was a "scholar" or not.

So can you cite a source or not?

[JohnKSa]

LAK,

I'm not trying to rag on you, but this is the kind of "evidence" that has kept the JFK conspiracy alive.

An unnamed scholar comes up with a document that the source of the alleged document claims is fake. Since the document was supposedly found 30 years ago and the scholar who found it is unnamed, it's impossible to track it down. It MIGHT be true, but there's absolutely no way to check it out.

I've spent a lot of time tracking things like that down only to find there's absolutely no basis in fact, or to find that it's a total dead end. No one can confirm or deny, no one has a copy of the alleged document, no one knows who allegedly found the document, etc. Most of this kind of stuff reads like a typical urban legend/web myth--lots of meaningless details but a very careful omission of any specific information that would allow someone to actually research it carefully.

Here's the quote from the link provided by JohnBT

A 1947 memo, found in 1975 by a scholar going through a pile of recently released FBI documents, supports Giancana's contention. In the memo, addressed to a congressional committee investigating organized crime, an FBI assistant states: "It is my sworn testimony that one Jack Rubenstein of Chicago ... is performing information functions for the staff of Congressman Richard Nixon, Republican of California. It is requested Rubenstein not be called for open testimony in the aforementioned hearings." (Later in 1947, Rubenstein moved to Dallas and shortened his last name.) The FBI subsequently called the memo a fake, but the reference service Facts on File considers it authentic.

Why would the FBI deny a 30 year old passing connection between Nixon and Ruby discovered over a decade after the assassination? Why doesn't the scholar have a name? None of it makes any sense, and worse, there's a convenient omission of anything that would let one track it down. Where do you start? By calling the FBI and asking for a copy of a 1947 memo that they claimed was fake in 1975?

[Shawn Dodson]

Don't know if this link has already be posted, but here goes:

http://www.jfklancer.com/aphotos.html

If you look closely enough you can see the 6.5mm Carcano bullet entrance wound in the back of JFK's head.

[jfruser]

Originally Posted by JohnKSa

...this is the kind of "evidence" that has kept the JFK conspiracy alive.

D@mn skippy.

If folks would learn a tiny bit about marksmanship & actually went to the book depository, 75% of the myths that start with, "LHO could never have made the shots in that bit of time," fall apart.

If folks would call "Bullshinola" whenever one of these pieces of unconfirmable "evidence" pops up, another 20% of the myths would dissipate into the ether.


Shawn Dodson:
Whenever I see those photos I get hoppin' mad. All these conspiracy book writers likely know better, but they are willing to revel in that man's blood to win a buck off the yahoos.

Disgusting.

[JohnKSa]

Shawn,

What's amazing is that, in spite of the clear color picture of a bullet entry hole in the back of his head just down the page aways they're blathering about the "entry wound in the temple". Which is OBVIOUSLY an exit wound. One of the first things you learn about bullet wounds in the skull is: "entry little, exit big". It's amazing for me to see how this lasted as long as it has. The truth of it is that people like the conspiracy enough that they refuse to invest any real time and effort into actually researching it.

And the photo with the bullet entry wound is labelled as referring to damage above the hairline. The "damage" is some sort of debris adhering to his hair--which should have been painfully obvious since it's not visible in the pictures of the back wound. The "damage" is only visible in the three close-up head shots. The "damage" either fell off before the other photos or stuck on there after the other photos were taken (don't know the order they were taken.)

The entry wound to the back of the head is also visible at the very bottom of the B&W photo.

I've included attachments with the bullet hole circled to make it more obvious, but you can look at the photos on the website Shawn linked to see the original pictures.

Not trying to be gross, and I apologize in advance for the graphic description, but in case it's lost on the viewers, the person holding the head up for the photograph (gloved hand) is holding the head up by putting his fingers in the EXIT wound and holding the skull up from the inside.

[LAK]

JohnKSa

Why would the FBI deny a 30 year old passing connection between Nixon and Ruby discovered over a decade after the assassination? Why doesn't the scholar have a name? None of it makes any sense, and worse, there's a convenient omission of anything that would let one track it down. Where do you start? By calling the FBI and asking for a copy of a 1947 memo that they claimed was fake in 1975?

I have it on a disk "JFK II". The reasons the FBI might deny the document is original are many. Who, which FBI person by name "denied it"?

Tracking it down is a good idea. The problem with our government, agencies and leadership is that they studiously avoid any objective route to conclusions.

The connections between people like Jack Ruby seem to be more than "passing".

As far as the "entrance" and "exit" wounds go, there is testimony by more than a few people involved that the large exit wound was on the back, slightly right, of the head. This is consistant with what can be seen in the Zapruder film where Kennedy's scalp pieces and brains are thrown all over the back of the limo and beyond. Jackie can be seen crawling out onto the trunk and picking some of these up and attempting to place them "back on" the back of his head.

Had the exit wound been located on the front of the head/face, the downward angle of the shot claimed would indicate an exit wound somewhere in the middle of his face. In any case; skin, bone, cartilege, blood and brain matter would have been splattered all over Connolly and the driver, and front seating area and windshield. The photographs of Kennedy lying flat on his back would have clearly shown a large ragged exit wound somewhere on his face.

Unless, this photo (or one of them) has been doctored of course. But the several named parties involved who handled or saw the wounds firsthand confirm the large exit wound at the back. These people have left their testimony on film. They could all be lying of course; but for what purpose? A conspiracy to create confusion and distrust decades later?

The most astounding aspect to me is the behavior of the Secret Service Agent driver and the other Agent in the front seat. While rifle shots are still ringing out and Kenndy is clutching his throat, the driver keeps turning around and staring at him, and the other glancing around as well. It is not until Kennedy's brains went flying that he put his foot on the gas. All he did basically was keep Kennedy in the kill zone until the job was finished.

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[Amadeus]

Kennedy shot himself!

[rayra]

"Kennedy shot himself!"


heh. With a Glock. It was the resulting kaboom that struck Gov Connelly.

[Shawn Dodson]

What's amazing is that, in spite of the clear color picture of a bullet entry hole in the back of his head just down the page aways they're blathering about the "entry wound in the temple". Which is OBVIOUSLY an exit wound.

Thanks for pointing this out. Although I haven't studied the web site in any great detail other than to examine the photos, I reckon I should've put a disclaimer in my post that the link was provided merely for the photo, not for any commentary on the page. I apologize for any misunderstanding.

Perhaps the best book about the JFK assassination is John K. Lattimer's Kennedy and Lincoln: Medical and Ballistic Comparisons of their Assassinations. Unfortunately it's out of print, but used copies are available.

Although the article in the link below deals with a different topic, it presents an extract Lattimer wrote for Wound Ballistics Review (“Differences in the Wounding Behavior of the Two Bullets that Struck President Kennedy; An Experimental Study.” (John K. Lattimer, M.D., Sc.D., Jon K. Lattimer, M.D., et. al., Wound Ballistics Review, 2(2): 1995; 13-37), in which he explains the mechanics of JFK's head wound. See http://www.firearmstactical.com/tact...3/0604-03a.htm (scoll down to almost the end of the web page).

[ctdonath]

As far as the "entrance" and "exit" wounds go, there is testimony by more than a few people involved that the large exit wound was on the back, slightly right, of the head.

Photos, indicated prior, clearly show the large exit was more front/top/right.

The entry wound is not obvious, for plain reasons. The marked site indicated prior is consistent with the standard scenario.

Too many conspiracy theorists seem to think the entry, exit & path involve going straight thru the center of the skull with holes on opposite sides - not recognizing that less central and less uniform paths are more likely in the real world.

This is consistant with what can be seen in the Zapruder film where Kennedy's scalp pieces and brains are thrown all over the back of the limo and beyond. Jackie can be seen crawling out onto the trunk and picking some of these up and attempting to place them "back on" the back of his head.

Is she really retrieving pieces from the back? or, in freaking out, did she first try crawling off the back, then return to hold what's left of his head together? Remember: being absolutely shocked & distraught, nothing she did in those few seconds was necessarily rational in any way.

Had the exit wound been located on the front of the head/face,

The exit wound location is plain from the photos. Cope.

Unless, this photo (or one of them) has been doctored of course.

Maybe the whole thing was staged, and he's lounging in Bermuda with Elvis.

Such claims ("the photos were doctored", etc.) are not the realm of sane rational analysis - they are the realm of hysteria and blind faith in fantasies, fueled by a need for justification, no matter how wild or complicated.

He was shot in the head. The shooter was at a reasonable distance and fired at a reasonable rate with reasonable accuracy for someone reasonably well practiced. The entry and exit wounds are reasonably consistent with the scenario and the natural complexities of pushing a bullet through someone's skull at high speed. Jackie's behavior is reasonably consistent with someone whose husband has just been shot dead. Other factors also line up reasonably; unexplainable precise factors are far more a matter of natural chaos than of deliberate conspiracy.

These people have left their testimony on film. They could all be lying of course;

More like they gave reasonable descriptions of what they saw, which gets mutated as conspiracy theorists play the "telephone game". Given the photos, the mess can easily be described as "back of the head", as it wasn't on his face.

The most astounding aspect to me is the behavior of the Secret Service Agent driver and the other Agent in the front seat. While rifle shots are still ringing out and Kenndy is clutching his throat, the driver keeps turning around and staring at him, and the other glancing around as well.

They were grasping the situation. It only lasted a few seconds, which is what it took for them to deal with their cognitive dissonance induced by their healthy happy VIP suddenly splattering innards for no expected or apparent reason.

[Detritus]

Kennedy shot himself!

Has someone been watching too much Red Dwarf......

Note: for those who have never seen or heard of it, Red Dwarf is a British Sci-fi comedy series that is about as irreverent, farcical, and intentionally twistedly bizzare as such things can be.

in one episode the characters have a time machine, and decide to go find JFK, spill the beans to him about Dallas, and kennedy is convincd/decides to be the shooter on the grassy knoll.