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May 13, 2006, 12:09 PM
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#1 |
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Member
Join Date: January 10, 2005
Location: Augusta, GA
Posts: 118
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Stupid mystery novel mistakes
I'm reading The Janson Directive by Robert Ludlum. You will be happy to know that CZ75 is a hard hitting revolver with heavy recoil. Then there are those pesky "Makarevs" (sic!) in 9.5 caliber. Mistakes like that just ruin the entire book for me.
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“The Constitution should never be construed…to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms” Samuel Adams NRA, GOA |
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May 13, 2006, 12:10 PM
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#2 |
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Join Date: March 30, 2006
Location: Rocky River, Ohio
Posts: 7,444
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You have no idea how many novels (and movies) have been ruined for me by things like that.
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May 13, 2006, 12:14 PM
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#3 |
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Join Date: August 23, 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 353
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or the cocking of a hammer on a Glock?
My wife gets mad at me when I yell at the book or TV! |
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May 13, 2006, 12:34 PM
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#4 |
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Join Date: March 7, 2003
Posts: 1,070
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Robert Ludlum is the worst thing I've ever read. I used to periodically pick up one of his books. I always end up wanting to claw my eyes out. I've since quit picking up his books.
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May 13, 2006, 12:40 PM
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#5 | |
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Join Date: March 7, 2003
Posts: 1,070
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Quote:
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May 13, 2006, 12:40 PM
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#6 |
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Join Date: February 3, 2005
Posts: 1,426
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I remember a short story I read once, rookie assassin, precision take down rifle, scope in another compartment- just needed installed, and it was chambered in 9mm. He never saw the gun before and he had one shot to do the job.
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May 13, 2006, 12:51 PM
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#7 |
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Member
Join Date: January 7, 2005
Location: Round Rock, TX
Posts: 3,131
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Alex Cross is always flicking the safety off on his Glock in the James Patterson novels.
Some of the authors may learn though. . .Reacher flicked the safety off a Glock in the earlier Lee Child books, but in a later one Reacher explains that there isn't really a safety on a Glock other than a thin part of the trigger.
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May 13, 2006, 01:02 PM
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#8 |
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Join Date: November 24, 2005
Posts: 604
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There was a novel called "The Ice Man"--and the earlier part of the book is okay with gun details I suppose, but there's a "burp gun" described in the later part of the book that is just so confused and contradictory...
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May 13, 2006, 02:20 PM
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#9 |
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Join Date: February 9, 2004
Location: columbus georgia
Posts: 488
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I always hated it when
THEY TOOK THE SAFETY OFF...... revolver!
 they knew! they must be aliens!
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Please don't disturb the moonbats;their screaching alarms the blissninnies,who are busy feeling safe and trying not to cogitate. "be like the viper,son;keep your mouth shut till the strike is begun" |
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May 13, 2006, 03:21 PM
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#10 |
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Join Date: November 9, 2005
Location: Monroeville, Pennsylvania
Posts: 520
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One book, can't recall the name, noted that the MP5 held 55rnds in it's straight magazine. Another one had the hero wielding a Ruger P90 that was down to 13rnds in it's "clip". Stuff like that really bugs me and can ruin an otherwise good story, since I'm big on accuracy when it comes to such things. My favorite peeve is the "cocking hammer" sound so commonly associated with Glocks in alot of movies these days.
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May 13, 2006, 03:40 PM
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#11 |
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Administrator
Join Date: December 22, 2002
Location: Terlingua, Texas
Posts: 26,251
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I was enjoying "Gorky Park" by Martin Cruz Smith until I came to the denouement with its shootout between the Bad Guy and the Russian detective hero.
BG shoots our hero in the leg with a hunting rifle. Our hero still can hobble. Er, well, okay. The author has specified that his hero is unfamiliar with handguns. No training. Okay, so then our hero takes a .38 snubby--described as "inherently inaccurate"--and center-punches the Bad Guy five times. Suuuurrrrre... In one of Patricia Cornwell's novels, she got into the "cop-killer bullet" thing. I wrote a polite letter explaining the reality, and got a polite letter from her that thanked me for the information. Some are not beyond redemption.  Many authors have websites. Easy enough to politely explain errors of fact. Art
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Sincerity of belief, repetition and a high db level do not create truth. |
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May 13, 2006, 04:20 PM
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#12 |
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Join Date: July 30, 2004
Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 4,375
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I've been reading Greg Hurwitz lately and he makes some rookie-type mistakes (Colt 1911's are so powerful civilians can't buy them, a US Marshall who's an avid "shooter" doesn't own a personal copy of his service piece?). It's odd because he seems to have done his homework on a lot of his topics, at least he consulted with enough folks. The worst part is on his blog he comments on the gun nuts who write him with quibbles over minor mistakes.
Dude, they aren't that minor and why make any if you don't have to? I'm assuming he'll gradually get better. Really enjoying Loren Estleman's Amos Walker novels (well, the one I've found anyway). He almost nonchalantly gets it right. The whole, a PI is (in books anyway) a gun user, thus can be knowledgeable without making a big deal over it idea. I don't demand incredible detail or gun porn, just get the offhand details right. Make characters handle guns professionally and demonstrate something close to the general level of knowledge of a gun board member when appropriate. His Western novels are pretty good as well, he has characters using some uncommon (but reasonably explained) stuff. The villian in one uses a Remington Rolling Block in .50 as a fight stopper (and bludgeon), the hero a 5 shot English Deane-Adams in .45 Colt. I have no IDEA what a Deane-Adams is, but it's nice to see a change from the Peacemakers and such.  The Reacher books turned me off at first due to the errors. Parker's currently getting a pass on the Jesse Stone novels because I can now just picture Tom Selleck doing it right. 
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Stephen Colbert on race: “While skin and race are often synonymous, skin cleansing is good, race cleansing is bad.” Matthew Carberry Refuting claims like this is like hunting cows with a hammer. where's the sport in it? - Taliv |
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May 13, 2006, 04:27 PM
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#13 |
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Member
Join Date: June 26, 2005
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 2,672
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That is why you got to love Tom Clancy. He does his homework.
Kevin |
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May 13, 2006, 04:33 PM
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#14 |
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Member
Join Date: December 30, 2002
Posts: 1,755
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How does Jack Bauer make his P226 sound like a revolver?
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May 13, 2006, 04:34 PM
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#15 |
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Join Date: July 30, 2004
Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 4,375
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Kevin,
Who chooses the Beretta in .45 for an elite AT team like in Rainbow 6? Really, who? Research my butt. 
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Stephen Colbert on race: “While skin and race are often synonymous, skin cleansing is good, race cleansing is bad.” Matthew Carberry Refuting claims like this is like hunting cows with a hammer. where's the sport in it? - Taliv |
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May 13, 2006, 05:24 PM
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#16 | |
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Join Date: March 7, 2003
Posts: 1,070
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Quote:
So why not Berettas? I just bought a Beretta 92 and I've been very pleased with it. Everyone talks about how great the legendary .45 ACP round is. So why not a Beretta .45? I know the...Cougar (?) is a bit of an obscure choice, but why not? |
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May 13, 2006, 05:38 PM
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#17 |
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Member
Join Date: July 30, 2004
Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 4,375
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My guess is multi-level.
First and foremost I think he wanted to come up with something different but he knew noone would buy a (primarily) American run SOF-type team using anything but the .45 caliber. The reason the Beretta is such an odd choice is explained by the list you gave. No one high-speed really uses the 9 version and there's no reason to believe (and reality has shown) that they'd suddenly go to the design just because it came in .45. They use the single (safe) actions for a variety of functions the DA Beretta just can't do as well no matter the caliber. The fact that the 9 is the US service pistol might make it seem outwardly reasonable a group of US service people would take the brand with them to a high-speed unit (albeit in the SOF caliber of choice). But it isn't a US unit, and they actually don't do that, they change platforms. Last, Clancy (to my perception) can be something of an industry shill, his research was helped by his forming personal friendships with folks and gaining access that way. He also tends to portray his contact's organizations in a uniformly favorable light. I seem to recall him shooting Beretta shotguns, there might have been a personal renumeration (or favor) influence in him using the brand in what was guaranteed to be a huge selling novel. Free advertising. Anyway, I also don't really care, it just stuck out like a sore thumb when I read the book.
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Stephen Colbert on race: “While skin and race are often synonymous, skin cleansing is good, race cleansing is bad.” Matthew Carberry Refuting claims like this is like hunting cows with a hammer. where's the sport in it? - Taliv |
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May 13, 2006, 07:37 PM
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#18 |
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Member
Join Date: December 26, 2002
Posts: 4,795
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One recurring mistake I read a LOT, even in non-fiction books, and this one is stated by real experts who SHOULD know better.
That's the "smell of Cordite". People talk about smelling it when firing M16's and modern pistols after grenades blow, and from artillery shells. Cordite was a British small arms propellant that was discontinued back around the Korean War I believe. In any event, no American civilian maker ever used it, and it was never used by the US military for anything, certainly not in the M1, or the M16. Fiction writers making uninformed mistakes is one thing, but when US military vets start talking about smelling an obsolete propellant in Vietnam and Desert Storm, you have to wonder. |
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May 13, 2006, 07:45 PM
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#19 |
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Member
Join Date: July 30, 2004
Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 4,375
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I say Kleenex though I now use Puffs (they have lotion
). The cordite issue may be less a gaffe than common slang, like "shrapnel" is still used by military folks though actual shrapnel shells haven't been used in, what, almost a century. "Splinter" just doesn't have the same ring. What would we call modern propellent odors to identify the smell? 
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Stephen Colbert on race: “While skin and race are often synonymous, skin cleansing is good, race cleansing is bad.” Matthew Carberry Refuting claims like this is like hunting cows with a hammer. where's the sport in it? - Taliv |
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May 13, 2006, 07:53 PM
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#20 |
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Join Date: December 24, 2002
Location: Utah, inside the Terraformed Zone
Posts: 6,950
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IIRC, in Rainbow 6, the team picked up the Beretta .45s because John Clark and Ding Chavez were fans of them, and they were in charge.
Clancy has made his share of mistakes. He once referred to a 10mm Beretta, for instance, but they're usually not bad. Of course, in Rainbow Six, he had them carrying integrally suppressed 10mm MP5s, and there's no such animal. (I wondered about carrying a .45 pistol and a 10mm subgun, too, but whatever.) Clancy at least attempts to get things right. There's something to be said for that.
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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΈ || WOLVERINES! The cake is a lie. Atomic Rockets! FBMG: Fear the bunny. |
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May 13, 2006, 08:15 PM
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#21 |
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Member
Join Date: July 30, 2004
Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 4,375
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'Crawler,
Oh, I give him full props for getting it right and making a readable story. It's just that I've never met a real operator (admittedly my pool is limited to Force guys, a couple Rangers, a few PJ's and one Green Beanie) who personally carried anything but 1911's or Glocks with any regularity. Since I haven't seen it, I assume it can't happen.
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Stephen Colbert on race: “While skin and race are often synonymous, skin cleansing is good, race cleansing is bad.” Matthew Carberry Refuting claims like this is like hunting cows with a hammer. where's the sport in it? - Taliv |
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May 13, 2006, 08:17 PM
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#22 | |
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Member
Join Date: February 3, 2006
Posts: 1,286
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Quote:
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May 13, 2006, 08:20 PM
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#23 |
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Member
Join Date: July 30, 2004
Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 4,375
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Not a mystery author but an Aussie action/adventure writer who (in the one book I was unfortunate enough to read) got it ALL wacky.
Matthew Reilly Were you all aware that each nation's Special Ops teams has a "signature" weapon? For Force Recon it apparently is the "MagHook", a grappling hook launcher. There's some other cool stuff they do too that I must have missed all those years hanging around 1st's boat locker (it's kind of a beige, the boat house, if anyone cares) but I've mercifully forgotten them and the other countries "sig." weapons.
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Stephen Colbert on race: “While skin and race are often synonymous, skin cleansing is good, race cleansing is bad.” Matthew Carberry Refuting claims like this is like hunting cows with a hammer. where's the sport in it? - Taliv |
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May 13, 2006, 09:06 PM
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#24 |
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Member
Join Date: October 16, 2005
Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 1,268
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Clancy tries to get things right, and does a good job, mostly.
Here's a couple he missed. He described a 9mm Browning as firing a ".357 diameter" bullet (it's .355) and says a .22 target pistol would "feel heavier" with a full magazine (my Hi-Standard is maybe an extra 3 oz. loaded). He also has snipers joining the "quarter inch club" which he describes as firing a quarter-inch group from 200 yards (not going to happen, even center-to-center measuring. Not in the real world.) Nonetheless, he a LOT more accurate than most authors. Read Harry Turtledove if you want an author who really gets things right. |
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May 13, 2006, 09:09 PM
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#25 |
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Member
Join Date: October 31, 2005
Location: Southeast Michigan
Posts: 877
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"Bryco thee eighty"
Twice as poweful as other small guns, but unsafe. A BG had a kB, and it blew his hand completely off!
The author may be salvagable, so I may write to her.
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“It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.” — Thomas Sowell |
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