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Old February 25, 2015, 11:52 PM   #1
MoreIsLess
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Switching to heavier 45acp loads

I have been using light loads (3.8 gr Bullseye, 200gr LSWC, 1.235 COL) in my Colt 1911 45acp because I have been using it in competition. I am not doing any competitions now so I am trying to practice more for self defense. I found that I got so used to the light loads that now when I shoot something a little stouter (like factory 45acp's) my accuracy has suffered. So, now I want to switch to something with a little more zip that would be more suitable for self defense.

I would still be using Bullseye powder and probably the 200gr LSWC's
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Old February 25, 2015, 11:59 PM   #2
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I would just work up the charge in .2gr increments and see what happens, 5.2gr of Be should be around tops depending on the bullet.
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Old February 26, 2015, 12:00 AM   #3
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Well, the Alliant page can offer 4.6 Bullseye as a max at COL 1.19 for the 200 LSWC http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloade...id=62&bdid=179
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Old February 26, 2015, 08:51 AM   #4
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5.2 seems rather hot (actually about right for Unique). I haven't seen that published anywhere for Bullseye and 200LSWC. 4.6 is max in several manuals.

Suggest get the Speer or Lyman or Sierra, etc., manuals and going by them.
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Old February 26, 2015, 10:25 AM   #5
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LaserCast lists 4.2 grains of Bullseye as the start load for their standard load with the 200 gr SWC (velocity FPS - 794 from a 1911) . 5.2 grains is the max load.

COL - 1.250

4.2 is also what they list as their NRA Bullseye Load - 50 yard line.

Similar load for your 200 gr SWCs will likely work.

Speer #14 lists 4.2 gr Bullseye as a start load for the 200 gr SWC.
4.6 gr as the max load for the 200 gr SWC with the note:
"These velocities are not necessarily at maximum pressure. They are held to velocities popular for target shooting."

Last edited by hanno; February 26, 2015 at 10:30 AM.
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Old February 26, 2015, 10:34 AM   #6
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Can someone explain what the value listed above the load data for each round means, e.g. #452630, BC: .063 SD: .140



This is from Lymans# 49
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Old February 26, 2015, 10:41 AM   #7
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452630 is the bullet style

BC is the ballistic coefficient-the higher the number, the better the bullet cuts through the air. Not such a big thing for pistols, more for rifles IMO.

SD is sectional density, a formula of length to diameter. Higher SD's generally are preferred for deeper penetration, all else being equal.

Depending on which style of LSWC you are using will depend on max charges. the 452630 is a Hensley and Gibbs style bullet and can take more powder. The Speer LSWC is soft lead and cannot be driven quite as fast.

Last edited by Delmar; February 26, 2015 at 10:49 AM.
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Old February 26, 2015, 11:33 AM   #8
MoreIsLess
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delmar View Post
452630 is the bullet style

BC is the ballistic coefficient-the higher the number, the better the bullet cuts through the air. Not such a big thing for pistols, more for rifles IMO.

SD is sectional density, a formula of length to diameter. Higher SD's generally are preferred for deeper penetration, all else being equal.

Depending on which style of LSWC you are using will depend on max charges. the 452630 is a Hensley and Gibbs style bullet and can take more powder. The Speer LSWC is soft lead and cannot be driven quite as fast.
Interesting.....thanks

Lymans #49 is showing a min of 4.9 and a max of 6.0 for #452630 and a min of 3.5 and max 5.6 for #452460. Assuming those are both LSWC that's quite a variance from the 4.6 max shown on Alliants site

Last edited by MoreIsLess; February 26, 2015 at 11:54 AM.
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Old February 26, 2015, 12:13 PM   #9
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the 452630 is a lead semi wad cutter with a beveled base, pretty popular and has been around since about 1950. I saw the max load for bullseye being 6 grains which might be a bit hot for some pistols. As with anything else, I would begin at the starting load and work up for best performance. For a heavier than target load in my 1911s I use 5.3 grains of Bullseye. I don't have access to a chronograph but it works well and hits pretty hard. But then I was more interested in accuracy with a higher powder charge than I was pure velocity.

Lyman's data has served me pretty well over the years, and I have also used Midway USA Load map for data, along with various powder makers recommendations.

Anything you change from what their particular manual states can change pressures, something to be mindful of, especially at the higher loadings. Things such as cases, which may have a smaller case capacity than what was tested, primers, cartridge overall length and bullet design all play a factor.

Also, I notice that Alliant's on line load data does not mention pressure. I wont say that its listing is max but Speer does mention the load for a similar bullet is not max and is for target loads. Lyman lists a higher powder charge but also lists pressures which is informative.

As to the difference in loadings for the Lyman book, there is a noticeable difference in the bullet style. The 452460 is not beveled and contains 2 grease grooves where the 452630 has a single groove. I would guess the difference is going to be in the bearing surface, or how much of the bullet touches the rifling, plus notice the seating depth. The 452460 is seated significantly deeper into the case which raises pressure. My personal load for the 452630 bullets are seated at 1.250 inches, longer than book spec, but they feed better in my pistols.

Last edited by Delmar; February 26, 2015 at 12:22 PM. Reason: additional data
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Old February 26, 2015, 12:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreIsLess View Post
Can someone explain what the value listed above the load data for each round means, e.g. #452630, BC: .063 SD: .140



This is from Lymans# 49
boy look at bluedot gooooo. awesome powder in a lot of pistols.
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Old February 26, 2015, 12:29 PM   #11
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Back in my early days of reloading for pistol, I tried Blue Dot and while it was okay, it wasn't my favorite for a high powered load. To me, Blue Dot was really spikey near maximum and seemed to smoke more than some of the other powders.

For heavy loads in 45ACP I like powders such as Accurate #5-sure wish I could find some around here, and there are others which perform very well and meter much better than flake powders such as Blue Dot.

Hogdon has a new powder I am going to try called CFE Pistol, which, if accurate might well be my new heavy load powder since I can actually find it.
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Old February 26, 2015, 02:44 PM   #12
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Quote:
5.2 seems rather hot (actually about right for Unique). I haven't seen that published anywhere for Bullseye and 200LSWC. 4.6 is max in several manuals.
You can download Lyman's 48th edition on a PDF doc.
Hornady's 8th edition lists their 200gr LWC(12108)COL 1.2" and 200gr L-c/t COL 1.225" with Bullseye 4.6gr-5.7gr.
My experience with 200gr LWC is leading past 5.2gr of Be, I have not tried coated bullets yet.
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Old February 26, 2015, 03:08 PM   #13
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MoreIsLess,
Are you using a lighter recoil spring for your 3.8gr load?
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Old February 26, 2015, 10:50 PM   #14
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If you have a reliable pistol with accurate loads I'm thinking that's more important than hotter speed. I mean, even a slow 45 is going to change someone's mind if they are considering harshing your mellow.

I don't carry for protection but in my mind, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd rate these in order of importance

1. Reliability
2. Accuracy
3. Power factor.
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Old February 26, 2015, 11:20 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joneb View Post
MoreIsLess,
Are you using a lighter recoil spring for your 3.8gr load?
yes, 12lb
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Old Yesterday, 12:06 AM   #16
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5.0 of Bullseye or 5.0 or Red Dot. There is not a lot of difference between the 2 and it has not leaded my barrel in a Colt Commander. The recoil is very manageable. I prefer the Red Dot because it seems to burn cleaner. You will need a standard spring in your pistol. I'd be concerned with the lighter spring.

kwg
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Old Yesterday, 12:20 AM   #17
joneb
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yes, 12lb
For a Colt gov. I think the factory is 16lbs, I would use that when working up your new load.
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Old Yesterday, 08:30 AM   #18
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Yes, 16 lbs is the stock spring for a 5" 1911 in .45 ACP.
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Old Yesterday, 11:35 AM   #19
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If you have any WST it will burn cleaner than any of the others. I have started using it exclusively in the 45acp. I do use WSF when I want to push things harder.

You will require a heaver RS if you have been shooting light BE loads. Like said 16# is the std spring for a 5" 1911. Depending on your gun is setup a 14# may work fine too. I have been able to get my 1911 to run with 4.1 gr WST with a std 16# RS. Ejection is pretty weak but no malfunctions. I do run a 23# main spring with a small radius FPstop.
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Old Yesterday, 12:07 PM   #20
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Haven't used Bullseye in years my go to powder for .45ACP is WW231 or HP-38 (same thing). Lately, thanks to the powder shortage, I managed to get a can of Autocomp and am very impressed with it. 6.4gr under a 200gr. Berrys flat point is producing excellent accuracy and is very pleasant to shoot. Now if I could only find another can.
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Old Yesterday, 12:27 PM   #21
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This thread is a good reminder to everyone about COL and the impact of powder space on pressures. Look at the differences in max loads with different COL's. Big issue there even with the low pressure 45ACP.

I know I run 4.9 to 5.0 grns of Bullseye with my 230 FMJ's and LRNS and get 830 FPS out of my standard 1911's but I load to 1.272 COL. Nice and long loaded for maximum powder space.
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Old Yesterday, 08:04 PM   #22
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Quote:
Lymans #49 is showing a min of 4.9 and a max of 6.0 for #452630 and a min of 3.5 and max 5.6 for #452460. Assuming those are both LSWC that's quite a variance from the 4.6 max shown on Alliants site
The Lyman 452460 has a short "nose" and it sits deeper in the case, resulting in less case capacity and higher pressure than other 200gr SWC's. That's the nice thing about the Lyman 49th Reloading Manual; load data specific to the actual bullet being used, as opposed to a "generic" bullet of the same weight.

Don
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