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Old October 21, 2014, 12:29 PM   #1
Apiidae
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Shot shell reloading

Hello all,
I am have finally got all my components together to start reloading shot shells.

My question;
Is a flattening primer still a good indicator of pressure getting high in shot? Or is there something else I should look for?

And yes I am using published data and working up.
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Old October 21, 2014, 12:55 PM   #2
JimKirk
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Not in shot shell reloading ... you should use published data and NOT go up with it ... shotguns don't have a lot of play room ... and yes I've been reloading shotgun shell for a long long time ... don't fool around with the data...
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Old October 21, 2014, 01:05 PM   #3
Apiidae
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Okay, Thanks.
Here goes....
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Old October 21, 2014, 01:12 PM   #4
rcmodel
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+1

No 'working up' when loading shotshells.
Use the data exactly as it is published, with the correct components.

A flattened shotgun primer would have already resulted in a blown up shotgun, as it takes about four times more pressure to flatten a primer then any shotgun is able to contain.

rc
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Old October 21, 2014, 02:54 PM   #5
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+1. Stick to the loading data and don;t deviate. I consider "working up" a load for a shotgun to be trying different published recipes with varying powders, wads, and shot then going to the patterning board to see the results.
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Old October 21, 2014, 03:19 PM   #6
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Quote:
And yes I am using published data and working up.
As stated by the others, do NOT work up - by the time you see flattened primers from too much pressure, you will have most likely destroyed your gun and quite possibly your hands, arms, face, eyes...............etc.

While there are some acceptable substitutes for certain components (clone wads of the same design, certain primers in certain applications), the powder/shot charges are the powder/shot charges - period.

Make sure you WEIGH your charges as most bushing charts are never correct; even then a chrono is necessary to actually know what velocity you are getting, just as the pattern plate (and not the name on the choke tube) will show you exactly what pattern you are getting
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Old October 21, 2014, 03:59 PM   #7
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Just use the published loads as is.

Use the same or approved matched components, this includes the wad, hull and primer. It's only when you start bumping charges up or down, or use different wads, hulls, or primers that you'll start having issues.

GS
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Old October 21, 2014, 04:23 PM   #8
Apiidae
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I guess I should have been more specific. I am actually trying to load down. I am using these for cowboy action, so I just want enough shot and charge to knock the faller over.

I am starting under the published minimum and working up to something I feel is good for me. I was curious if there was something I would be noticing if I was going to high. But I guess a split barrel would be the first thing I would notice

I'm cheap, I want to use the little least amount of powder in my three-quarter ounce shot

Thanks for the input. I'm glad I know where to get good info for when I start loading the real shells with real loads.
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Old October 21, 2014, 04:43 PM   #9
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Going lower you can do until it goes.... BLOOP

Thats the stop And go back up point.

Its actually a funny noise if you arent expecting it.


For cowboy action, just out of curiosity, why not black powder ?

Black powder shells are about the easiest thing to load ever.
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Old October 21, 2014, 05:50 PM   #10
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But then I can't see a damn thing through all that smoke

Really I have not thought about it. Since my revolvers and rifle are smokeless powder I thought I would keep shotgun the same.
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Old October 21, 2014, 06:18 PM   #11
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Well, if you insist....


Just happens to be cool and mostly period correct, and lower in felt recoil most times.

The fact that you can load BP loads with volumetrically similar loads of powder and shot lends itself really well to downloading.
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Old October 21, 2014, 07:57 PM   #12
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Quote:
I am starting under the published minimum and working up to something I feel is good for me

Just double check what you are looking at, I just went and checked 3 different shotshell books and the charge they list is the max charge(no min and max like metallic). So if you start there and go up, you will have a problem
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Old October 21, 2014, 09:26 PM   #13
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Do NOT start under the minimum
JEEZ! Doesn't anyone read or own a damn manual?
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Old October 21, 2014, 10:06 PM   #14
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Sometimes the advice falls on deaf ears.

Use published shot shell loads as printed / published. Or, live and learn the hard way. There are lots of published light shot shell loads available, no need to reinvent the recipes.

GS
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Old October 21, 2014, 10:16 PM   #15
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DON'T use black powder in a shotgun unless you want a rusted shotgun. Yes, you can avoid the rust, but you must be meticulous about cleaning all the BP fouling off of all the steel. fuggedaboutit in a pump or gas operated shotgun, they would be a nightmare to clean BP from. If you want low recoiling loads, use lower weight payload recipes with lower muzzle velocities. If the recipe shows significantly less than 9,000 psi pressure, expect off sounding shots, more smoke and occasional "bloopers" especially in cool weather.

Primers in metallic loads start to flatten in the 35-55,000 psi range. Shotguns are meant to reliably contain 11,500 psi with a little margin. See the difference?
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Old Yesterday, 07:11 AM   #16
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A quote from the "Nosler Reloading Guide" number 6:

"Follow loading recommendations exactly. Don't substitute components for those listed. Start loading with the minimum powder charge in the load shown."

This, gentlemen, is a recommendation for metallic cartridge reloading. Does anyone believe this? I hope not. It's about as logical as a cake mix recommending a certain brand of flower and is for marketing and CYA.

I would agree that primers are of no help in determing safe shotgun pressures and I also agree one should have AND actually read a relevant reloading manual. One should also not experiment with increasing powder charges unless one has pressure measuring equipment. That said, interchangeing primers and hulls probably won't be that big of a deal in a modern well made shotgun as long as you're not using the hottest primer.

As for wads, the purpose is to hold the shot and take up the space between the powder and shot allowing one to get a good crimp. I've heard there are wads made for straight and slightly tapered cases as well.



I started shotshell reloading relatively recently. The above were all loaded with the same components except for the hull. They're deadly on clays (most DRT).
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Old Yesterday, 09:36 AM   #17
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You need to find a copy of the Lyman Shotshell Reloading Handbook... it list loads of many kinds!
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Old Yesterday, 12:34 PM   #18
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Just for clarification....

You said CAS shooting, right ?

So im assuming you are using a period piece shotgun or replica ?

And by feller, I assume you mean those nice silhouettes that seem to be immune to light shot loads ?
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Old Yesterday, 12:59 PM   #19
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TOO low can leave a wad in the barrel, which can lead to a kaboom if not noticed.

I load 3/4 oz for target shooting in my 12 and 20. Depending on your powder, a 12 gauge light load will need to be somewhere in the 15-16 grain area - again DEPENDING on what powder (insert all the typical disclaimer lawyerease here). The best two powder for light loads of 3/4 oz. will be Extra-Lite or Titewad
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Old Today, 01:39 AM   #20
Apiidae
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I am shooting out of a stoeger coach gun supreme. 2 years old. The steel fallers are 1foot square steel targets that fall over when they are hit. They are about as heavy as pushing a full pop can over. They are no farther than 10 yards away. Occasionally we have poppers that throw up a empty pop can or a clay pigeon.

I am using my once fired win aa hulls
Win aa lite powder
3/4 oz wad for win
3/4 oz #8 shot
Cheddite 209 primers

Going off of the win powder loading data, they only have 7/8 oz as their lowest shot weight for aa lite and give 3 loads per shell configuration. I am loading on a mec grabber. I weighed and reweighed for the bushings to get approx grains for those 3 loads. It was bushings 17,18,19. So i loaded up 4 rounds each of 4 bushings starting at 16.
I'll start on the 16 and if it bloops out, I can easily break open the action to check for obstructions. As i work up through 17,18 & 19 i'll feel whats right for the task at hand.

In the 2 years ive had the gun ive put through about just under 1000 rounds of the win aa128 (just finishing my fourth case). Feels good that gun does. And i put one slug through. Its such a lite, short gun, the recoil is....something

I have poor punctuation from using this ipad screen keyboard.
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Last edited by Apiidae; Today at 01:43 AM. Reason: Forgot something
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