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Old October 2, 2014, 12:29 AM   #1
Dr.Zubrato
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Case forming 8x57 from 30-06

I have a bit of 30-06 brass, and I'll be picking up 8mm dies, mold, and gas checks very soon for future loading project.
My questions pertain to the case forming aspect for now, I plan to use the Lee dies, and trimmer for this.
My understanding is this: lube cases generously, remove decapping rod, and resize cases to 8mm. Once the cases are in the die, hacksaw or sawzall the top of the case off. Now, I either find a cheap-o way to decap the brass, or buy a seperate universal decapper for this purpose only. From there, I trim using the lee trimmer and a electric drill. Now, lube again, and resize one last time EDIT: with decapping/expanding stem in place

From here, do I need to fireform the brass with low power loads? I'll be working up loads for the 175gr lee boolit, and won't really be going for max loads, more midrange. Is this a necessary step, and how much accuracy will I sacrifice by not doing so?

I won't be annealing, as I'm pretty noob to annealing and I feel I'd ruin more cases than I save from split necks..

I have a fair amount of nickel cases, should I be worried about the nickel flaking off, or am I OK?

Any advice or experience in case forming would be greatly appreciated, thanks!
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Last edited by Dr.Zubrato; October 2, 2014 at 12:51 AM.
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Old October 2, 2014, 12:42 AM   #2
TenDriver
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You need to leave the expander ball in the die to go from .308 up to .323.

I've done a bunch with a Lee die. Keep in mind though it's a sizing die, not a forming die. The vent tube will impart a mark on the shoulder. You'll need to smooth that out inside the die somehow.

My method was to lube, expand the mouth, then start trimming with the Lee / drill deal. Once it's trimmed, finish sizing the case and trim again.

I would suggest a different die for forming rather than the Lee sizing die.

One last thing. Look through the brass you have on hand. The ones that have "HXP" are cases I formed from .30-06 in the manner I described and sent to you a while back.

Hornady also makes good 8x57 brass. I have some of that on hand and like it.
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Old October 2, 2014, 12:45 AM   #3
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I think you'll split the mouths on those nickel cases btw. Someone else may be able to confirm. If that's the case and you want to swap, PM me. I load -06 as well as 8mm.
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Old October 2, 2014, 12:52 AM   #4
Dr.Zubrato
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How bad is the vent mark? Will I be comprimising the quality of the brass by doing so?
I thought to use the lee trimmer it's necessary to decap the primer, so basically resize until you hit the end of the die, trim, and resize again?

Thanks again for the cases, Tendriver! It's great to have a benchmark for accuracy, knowing I can work up loads in peace before I may or may not have to fireform!

I'll see how many I have, it may not be worth the shipping cost to send cases back and forth if I only have a few. I'll let you know soon!
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Old October 2, 2014, 02:56 AM   #5
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I have done this many times very successfully with 30/06 brass cases, but I would not use nickle. Nickle is harder to resize even when resizing same caliber and would be much harder converting to 8mm. I would stick with brass.
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Old October 2, 2014, 07:41 AM   #6
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The vent mark is fairly pronounced. I had to file brass away and then decided not to use it.

I'll see if I have time to run one before heading out to work and post a picture. I might already have one.

You will be decapping while forming. The expander ball / pin stays in the brass.

The steps are lube - slowly expand the mouth by gently raising the ram until it stops - trim / chamfer - raise the ram again to finish forming - trim / chamfer.

No worries on those cases. Happy to help!
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Old October 2, 2014, 08:56 AM   #7
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Another thing to consider is neck thickness after moving the shoulder back. Some 8mm's have ample neck clearance, others don't. Prudent to check before using for full pressure loads. I am not speaking from experience here, have not personally formed 8mm from 30-06 but have formed 7.65 Argentine that needed reamed.
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Old October 20, 2014, 01:30 PM   #8
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Thread bump!

Some more questions:
Which lube is good for case forming?
I have Lee case sizing lube, and some of it diluted in alcohol, mink oil and frog lube
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Old October 20, 2014, 02:23 PM   #9
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.30-06 and 8mm Mauser are nothing alike. Starting with the difference in length from the neck to the head. 8mm Mauser brass isn't that hard to find.
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Old October 20, 2014, 05:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunray View Post
.30-06 and 8mm Mauser are nothing alike. Starting with the difference in length from the neck to the head. 8mm Mauser brass isn't that hard to find.
8x57 is the root of the entire 30-03 /30-06/?x57/7.62x51-308-Win cartridge family tree. They all share the 0.473" case head. After that, it's just varying lengths, shoulders, and necks. Forming just involves changing the length, shoulder, and neck and then fire-forming to fill everything out. It's not that difficult.

If he was trying to form 284 Win from 30-30 or 218 bee, that might be an issue.

I do agree that 8x57 brass isn't that hard to find, but if you have a plethora of 30-06 that will never get used and the time/means to do it, why not?

Matt

Last edited by morcey2; October 20, 2014 at 05:16 PM.
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Old October 20, 2014, 06:25 PM   #11
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Use a tubing cutter to get the 30/06 close I have done hundreds using . 270, 280, 30/06, and one other I can't remember works fine lasts long time.
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Old October 20, 2014, 07:30 PM   #12
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I posted this on another site. Here's how I made some 8X57 brass from 30-06 a few months ago:

"A while back I bought a matching 98/29 Persian Mauser. It was mislabeled as a Turk Mauser so I got a good deal on it. I've had a hard time finding 8X57 brass but I have a bunch of FC 30-06 brass so I thought I'd try reforming 30-06 into 8X57 using my Lee die.
The first thing I did was heat the shoulder area of the brass until there was discoloration, about a count of ten while rotating the brass in a low level propane torch flame. Then I lightly lubed the inside of the neck and outside of the case with die lube. I ran the cases into the 8X57 die with the expander in place and they all formed with no problems.
Of course, the cases came out about .20" too long in the neck. My Lyman trimmer is good for removing .010" to .030" of material but I didn't want to convert .20" of brass into shavings. So I gently clamped the cases into a rubber-padded V-block and used a hacksaw to remove most of the extra neck. Then with the Lyman trimmer I took the OAL down to 2.230". After deburring I ran the cases through the sizing die one more time.
I was concerned that the case neck wall might be too thick but the loaded rounds will chamber just fine."
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Old October 20, 2014, 11:10 PM   #13
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Case forming 8x57 from 30-06

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Zubrato View Post
Thread bump!



Some more questions:

Which lube is good for case forming?

I have Lee case sizing lube, and some of it diluted in alcohol, mink oil and frog lube

I use wire pulling lube from Home Depot / Lowes. $8 / quart. Works great if you buy the cloudy looking stuff, not the clear type (haven't tried that).
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Old October 21, 2014, 12:26 AM   #14
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For you guys saying Mauser brass isn't hard to find, have a look online and check out the prices. Prvi 8mm brass is around 52$/100 without cost of shipping...
When i can pick up my buddies 30-06 brass and convert it.

It's actually quite simple once I got the method down. Had a few problems in the beginning with the expander ball occaisionally getting caught on the way back down and yanking out f the die, no matter how hard I tightened the die, or lubed the case neck before sizing. This brought forming to a grinding halt, and I had to cut away the case.

1. Using tubing cutter, take 5-6mm off the neck.
2. Lube case mouth generously, lube shoulder lightly.
3. Expand neck enough to open up the case mouth, I raise the ram up until it deprimes, and slowly release.
4. remove case, lube the inside of the new neck/shoulder generously
5. Resize
6. Trim, Chamfer, Deburr
7.Resize (Unsure if necessary, but value added)

I used mink oil as lube, and it worked an absolute treat. Having had a few previous stuck cases with the lee stuff, I was hesitant to use it.

Thanks to extremely generous members on this board like TenDriver, who PIF'd me a few 8mm mauser cases, and the 30-06 to form it from I got the idea to do my own. Very grateful to have a great reloading community like you guys with lots of experience, character, and values!
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Old October 21, 2014, 08:32 AM   #15
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LAGS on this board gave me a number of 30-06 converted to 8x57JS, and I load it with that same Lee 175 cast bullet you mention. Good stuff, especially when the bullet is powder coated.

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Old October 21, 2014, 06:50 PM   #16
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I did this with 1950s GI cases some years ago - but they needed fireforming too (or they were hard to chamber the first time) and without annealing they didn't last long at all before the mouth split. You might have more luck with recent commercial cases as a basis.
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Old October 21, 2014, 08:31 PM   #17
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Glad I could help!
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Old October 22, 2014, 09:00 AM   #18
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Ages ago I made 7 Mauser brass from 30/06 with the aid of a file and trim die. Run the brass thru the die cut off excess clean up with a file and deburr.
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Old October 22, 2014, 08:44 PM   #19
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I have a set of RCBS forming dies to convert .30-06 to 8mm and the formed cases all chamber and fire just fine. No fireforming required. I don't anneal the necks just because I have a ton and a half of .30-06 brass and a lot of loaded .30-06 LC and HXP that will eventually end up as brass. I trim the case necks with a hack saw to get close, and use a case trimmer to finish out the shortening process.
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Old October 22, 2014, 08:52 PM   #20
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I made 7x57, 8x57, and 308 from 30-06, and 33 WCF from 45-70. I used a Lee Loader decapper to deprime it first. I also had much better luck with brass life annealing after running it through the smaller die. Annealing got to be a big topic in the gun rags in the 70's through the 80's, and the method I settled on was to place the deprimed, resized and trimmed cases in a shallow container of water (I used a 9"-10" cake tin - doesn't matter, it was easier to handle) filled with enough water to come up about 1/2-2/3 of the way on the case body, but below the shoulder by at least ~1/4". Then, in a dimly lit room, use a propane torch and heat the case necks and shoulder until it just barely glows a dull red - that's why a dimly lit room is important - then tip each case over into the water as soon as it glows. Too red = too hot, and you will make the brass too soft. There are threads on here on it, and one guy has a mechanized apparatus that is the cat's meow, but I don't do enough to justify it. Anyway, the last thing before loading was to run it through the sizer one last time, check the case length, and then load.
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Old October 22, 2014, 09:43 PM   #21
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I've started on annealing, using a 1/2 inch socket chucked up in a drill.
Then once the necks just turned a beautiful shiny blue I let them fall into a bucket of water. Will post pics tomorrow, and I think I did pretty good for my first time annealing.

I walked the like of under annealing, rather than over anneal by accident.
They look beautiful!
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Old Yesterday, 11:45 PM   #22
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8mm brass isn't easy to find anymore, and its not cheap if you can find it.I made my own 8mm brass this year, from 270 and 30.06 brass, its easy to make,I used a Minnie tube cutter,I took the burrs off the mouth of the case,I use lee die, go slow, make sure you lube the sizing ball, after I sized the cases,I use my torch to put some heat to the neck, don't over heat,I then run the cases back in the sizing die, don't forget to lube ,but don't over lube the shoulder,I then trim to length, clean the cases, Then fire form,,,
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Old Today, 12:55 AM   #23
Dr.Zubrato
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Dumb question, but why should I even fireform if I won't be neck sizing?
I mean, everytime I FL resize ill be returning the brass to the dimensions its at now, which is 8x57.

Is it an accuracy thing, or even necessary?

What are your favorite loads? Do you cast?

I'll be using the 175gr Lee boolit, and depending on whats at our cabelas either IMR3031, H4895, or hopefully 2400 as I've heard rumor of it going around cabelas' nationwide..
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Old Today, 01:12 AM   #24
greyling22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Zubrato View Post
Thread bump!

Some more questions:
Which lube is good for case forming?
I have Lee case sizing lube, and some of it diluted in alcohol, mink oil and frog lube
I have not used every lube under the sun by a long shot, but I will tell you that the little tub of hornady unique is far superior to the lee stuff as far as sizing goes(though the lee does work). And I never had much luck with the hornady One Shot.
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