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Old February 28, 2015, 01:17 PM   #1
newbirdhunter
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New Hornady LNL AP cams right over

Hi guys,

New reloader here. Am having problems with my new Hornady LNL AP no longer needing that extra oomph to cam over. Wondering if I broke the press.

I think I have a problem with the 9mm sizing die in that it take a good bit of force to put a case through it and even more force to bring the press arm down. Feels like the is stuck and is being yanked out when the press arm is brought down. I think I have done this enough times that suddenly I can raise the ram to the very top and let gravity bring the press arm completely down (thus camming it over).

Sorry if I am not making sense but lingo is still new to me. So, did i break my press? Are there adjustments I need to make?

Thanks for looking.
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Old February 28, 2015, 02:08 PM   #2
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It might just be a matter of die adjustment, as far as the cam over feel.
As for the difficulty with the sizing die, try cleaning it real good.
It might have bullet lube caked up in it.
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Old February 28, 2015, 02:44 PM   #3
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Never force it. Look for the jam, because there will be one when needing anything excessive in force, especially true on a little 9mm.

The quickest way to lock things up is to have a primer that is not fully inserted. My rule #1 on 9mm is to cull Sellier & Bellot head stamps and any others that require reamed primer pockets.
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Old February 28, 2015, 02:55 PM   #4
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You need to clean your sizing die. I've run into this on many occasions. What I think is happening is the polish on the brass is being scraped off and it collects in sizing ring. For a quick test you can lube some cases with OS or other dry lube and see if it get easy.
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Old February 28, 2015, 03:16 PM   #5
newbirdhunter
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Thanks guys. Appreciate the quick response.

I will try your suggestions re: the sizing die. I'd still like to know if I've forced the press to the point of breaking it since it cams over with almost no pressure. Like i mentioned earlier, if i bring the arm down gravity will take it the rest of the way and cam it over. Is there something i should be looking at adjusting? Is there something I should check to see if it's broken?

Thanks again for the help, it's very appreciated.
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Old February 28, 2015, 03:28 PM   #6
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I miss read your original post think it was taking excessive force. If your not getting any resistance while sizing I would inspect the die closely, something is wrong. Sizing ring missing, wrong die/caliber. Once the brass has cleared the die the ram can come down by itself.
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Old February 28, 2015, 03:40 PM   #7
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By "cam over" do you mean the shell plate rises to the top and then reverses direction before the handle completes its downward stroke? Or do you mean it goes "bump" when the handle completes its downward stroke, like when the sizing die is screwed in too far? If you have a carbide sizing die, the cam over you may have been feeling before could be the shell plate pressing too hard on the bottom of the die, which is not recommended by most carbide die manufacturers. You may have broken the carbide sizing ring and are no longer getting the resistance to "cam over" that you felt before.
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Old February 28, 2015, 03:45 PM   #8
newbirdhunter
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Sorry but i think i might be confusing people, let me see if I can re-state the problem.

My press cams over so easily now that i can let the arm go once the ram is at the top and gravity will cam it over.

What i think caused this condition is needing a lot of force to bring the ram down once i have sized my case (feels like i am yanking the case out of the die). This is not the reason for this post however.

I am positive that before this started occurring, there was a clear oomph needed to cam over the press.

So I am wondering if I have broken my press.

Thanks and so sorry for the confusion.

Frank
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Old February 28, 2015, 03:50 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by higgite View Post
By "cam over" do you mean the shell plate rises to the top and then reverses direction before the handle completes its downward stroke? Or do you mean it goes "bump" when the handle completes its downward stroke, like when the sizing die is screwed in too far? If you have a carbide sizing die, the cam over you may have been feeling before could be the shell plate pressing too hard on the bottom of the die, which is not recommended by most carbide die manufacturers. You may have broken the carbide sizing ring and are no longer getting the resistance to "cam over" that you felt before.
My understanding is that "cam over" means when the ram it at it's topmost point and the press arm is fully extended.
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Old February 28, 2015, 04:01 PM   #10
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What you describe is normal, when there is no resistance from operations that haven't already been completed. If you have used brass that is deprimed as well as already sized, don't expect much resistance.

If the brass is not being sized, it will either have a problem going into the expander or will offer no resistance to expansion.

The bigger question, beyond the symptoms that you are chasing, is whether the press can produce completed rounds that fire okay.
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Old February 28, 2015, 04:09 PM   #11
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Seems like a problem of semantics or definitions.

It sound like you are saying with the handle up and ou let it go it will free fall down? Is that correct,

Perhaps watch these videos and then describe ay what part you are talking about??

http://ultimatereloader.com/2012/04/...erview-part-i/
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Old February 28, 2015, 05:07 PM   #12
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9mm sizing dies should not require that much force. Is it a non-carbide die?
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Old February 28, 2015, 06:17 PM   #13
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Check you powder drop die adjustment. I'm thinking you are describing the force it takes to lower the ram after you have preformed one cycle. That is raising the ram to bell a case, drop powder, seat a bullet. If I'm stating this correctly it could be the belling funnel is seizing on the case. I run a Dillon 650 and with nickled cases these want to grab on to the powder drop unless I chamfer the case mouth. Let us know.
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Old February 28, 2015, 06:42 PM   #14
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If your were getting a lot of resistance at the top of the stroke you have a die turned down too far contacting the shell plate. Check to see if dies have loosened up. Even with the deprimeing stem set too low can cause excessive force when it bottoms out in the brass.
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Old February 28, 2015, 08:20 PM   #15
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You may have the die down a bit too far.
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Old March 1, 2015, 02:09 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rule3 View Post
Seems like a problem of semantics or definitions.

It sound like you are saying with the handle up and ou let it go it will free fall down? Is that correct,

Perhaps watch these videos and then describe ay what part you are talking about??

http://ultimatereloader.com/2012/04/...erview-part-i/
Yes, that is correct. It just falls, regardless of having/not having a die in the press, regardless of having/not having a shell in the holder. The press can be totally bare and the arm will free fall.

Thanks
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Old March 1, 2015, 03:37 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by newbirdhunter View Post
Yes, that is correct. It just falls, regardless of having/not having a die in the press, regardless of having/not having a shell in the holder. The press can be totally bare and the arm will free fall.

Thanks
OK now we are moving along Did you watch the videos?
Cam over to me is on the up stroke past vertical.

I do not have the particular press but it seems that there would be a tension adjustment or a bolt that holds the lever is perhaps loose?

I took the wood knob off my press and drilled a cue ball for a handle it is much heavier and my handle will fall by itself.
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Old March 1, 2015, 04:04 PM   #18
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Add some grease to the ram via the top zerk fitting....that will add resistance to the ram. You'll have to be carefull as to much grease will make it to stiff, it will loosen as you use the press.
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Old March 1, 2015, 04:23 PM   #19
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newbirdhunter,

Let's get some semantics straight, please. First, forget about cam over. It's a cool sounding term that isn't relevant to your problem. Let's call the normal position of the press handle when the press is at rest the "home" position. The handle will be either vertical or tilted slightly back. Does your press' handle return to the home position? If not, look for something blocking the press' motion, a maverick primer stuck under something, a maverick case hiding under the shell plate holder, things like that.
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Old March 1, 2015, 06:11 PM   #20
Walkalong
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I have an LNL AP, and I have always considered it a "cam over" type mechanism. Maybe I am wrong.

Anyway, it has a point when pushing the handle down where the linkage "cams over" or "goes past" 90 degrees in the linkage connected to the ram where no more upward movement of the ram can happen.

We should always reach this point for consistency. If we screw a die down too far it can prevent this from happening. If we screw it down way too far, it can also affect the leverage making it harder to size a case. (Post # 14)
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Old March 1, 2015, 07:29 PM   #21
higgite
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rule3 View Post
Seems like a problem of semantics or definitions.

It sound like you are saying with the handle up and ou let it go it will free fall down? Is that correct,
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbirdhunter View Post
Yes, that is correct.
Walkalong,

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think that's what OP is really talking about. I'm not crystal clear on what he is trying to tell us, but the more he says, the more it sounds to me like he is simply saying the handle won't stay up by itself. I may be wrong. It happened once before.
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Old March 1, 2015, 08:06 PM   #22
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Interesting.
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Old March 1, 2015, 08:10 PM   #23
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The way I read what the OP has said, the handle is straight up (home if you will) he lets go and it will fall down by itself with no friction (free fall)??
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Old Yesterday, 06:06 PM   #24
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OP:
I think as the parts wear in, the ram doesn't raise quite as high as it did when it was new. It used to be harder to cam over because you were stretching/compressing things to get to top dead center after the shellholder and die were already touching. Now that the press has worn in and tolerances loosened, the shellholder is no longer quite reaching the bottom of the die, or if it is, it is just barely touching right at top dead center.

For straight walled pistol cartridges, you don't really need to make contact between the shellholder against the die, so it doesn't matter. But if you want to get that feel back, screw the die down another fraction of a turn.

If this doesn't do anything, I suppose it's possible you wore out your press in a way that makes it stop camming over as much. Some presses don't cam over at all, so I wouldn't worry about it. That just means the last few inches of lever travel are completely useless on your press. But cam over is pretty useless to begin with.

Last edited by GLOOB; Yesterday at 06:17 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 09:20 PM   #25
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"Camming" over for my LNL has never been hard, as it has no stress on it once it goes past 90 degrees. The only way it can get tougher is if the die is too far down.
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