How Do You Measure for Best LOP for a Shotgun?

**Jeff White** · May 14, 2003, 02:08 PM

Ok, I've looked through all my references and I can't find how you measure for optimum length of pull on a defensive shotgun.

I have been advised to show up at school with the stock on my Benelli M121 already cut down. It's right at 13" now and seems to fit me pretty well.

Thanks,
Jeff

**Dave McCracken** · May 14, 2003, 02:15 PM

Traditionally,LOP has been measured from the center of the trigger,(rear trigger if there's more than one) to the center of the butt plate or pad.

13" is on the short side, you should be alright in your class with it as is.

Enjoy, and let us know how the class was. Thanks...

**Jeff White** · May 14, 2003, 02:29 PM

Dave,
I meant to say the stock was 13 inches long now. Isn't there a way to measure my forearm length and come up with the best LOP from trigger to butt plate?

Sorry for the confusion. I'll post a reveiw of the class here.

Jeff

**Dave McCracken** · May 14, 2003, 03:11 PM

That forearm thing is just a very rough guide. A better method would be to do some fast mounts. If you can get the thing in position easily and fire it without bumping your nose on your thumb, it's close enough.

We can also minic the effect of a longer or shorter stock by moving the forward hand back and forth.

TaxPhd · May 14, 2003, 09:55 PM

Dave, are you sure on the LOP measurement for a two trigger gun? I always thought it was from the front trigger.

El Tejon · May 14, 2003, 10:50 PM

Just make it short and then shorter!

**Dave McCracken** · May 15, 2003, 06:26 AM

Rear. The front trigger is used for the distance from the standing breech on a double, IIRC.

sm · May 15, 2003, 07:04 AM

Great, now I'm

.
I go and consult Brister, then Misseldine and they were of no help.

Seems as If LOP on a English Shotgun with double triggers was measured from rear trigger. Being English and all they measured from front trigger on a double rifle. They do things like that.

Then somewhere in my gray matter, some American Shotgun maker suggested LOP be measured from Front trigger. Something about English straight vs Churchill vs semi-pistol and pistol grip.

Of course the English called the pump gun an "enigma". What do they know, they put the steering wheel on the wrong side .

Can we all agree that El Tejon needs to back away from the saw and put the shotgun in a safe place

Jeff White: perhaps find a slip on pad and see if a change of LOP makes a difference. This way you can see/feel the difference. At class you can try both and maybe get some assistance with fit. Since LOP can affect comb, take along some moleskin to build up comb. Lessee , longer LOP raises comb, shorter ( too short) one may need to raise ( moleskin).

I think that's right...more coffee...

BigG · May 15, 2003, 08:57 AM

We have lots of guys at our range that have muy expensivo guns with what look like "try" stocks,, comb, LOP, etc adjustable. Then we have guys with similar guns with the Bondo treatment.

**JShirley** · May 15, 2003, 02:30 PM

One way some get LOP is to hold the weapon with the stock against the bicep. Ideal is to have the finger comfortably reach trigger.

Like Dave said, though, you have to try mounting the weapon to see if you have the right pull length. (Also your shooting gear will dictate LOP: are you shooting in heavy winter clothes? Body armor?)

Since I'm a hobbit, my LOP is pretty short...

John

**Dave McCracken** · May 15, 2003, 03:00 PM

When using this method, the trigger falls at the base of my trigger finger. Except for winter geese and Kevlar events, that's a bit short..

73, longer stocks have more drop. The cheek's further back. The older I get, the more I think that drop is more criucial than LOP.

As for the English, they like their beer warm and they mangle their own language.

**JShirley** · May 15, 2003, 03:19 PM

'Bout an inch short, Dave?

John
lucky when he buys Comblock shoulder arms, unlucky when he buys 'Merican ones.

tlhelmer · May 15, 2003, 07:07 PM

Does LOP mean length of pull?

sm · May 15, 2003, 08:28 PM

yes, LOP = length of pull.

Dave, thanks for correction on above, I got it flipped/flopped...cough cough...chalk dust...

tlhelmer · May 16, 2003, 08:37 AM

Thanks re1973

Speedfeed makes a 13" lop for Remington 870's

Gila Jorge · May 20, 2003, 10:51 PM

Horsefeathers! Length of pull indicated by bicep to finger joint only accounts for your sleeve length and says nothing about your neck length and whether you are a stock crawler or not. I have a longish neck, kee[ my head on the stock, and a 33 inch sleeve and shoot a 14.5 inch stock in winter and 14.625 in summer. I also use 1.5 inches of pitch in a field gun to reduce recoil and float my targets. Do NOT do any cutting unless you like buying replacement stocks. Have the gun fitted ny a semi pro shooter at the range while you are shooting it. Use shims to get the length best for you. Blessings.

mete · May 22, 2003, 09:17 AM

What kind of school is this that tells you to cut the stock if they don't know how big you are ?

Erick Gelhaus · May 26, 2003, 01:20 AM

mete-
The reason is that because most, if not all, "stock" shotgun stocks are too long for defensive work / training. This training / work involves mounting the stock quickly from three ready positions and slung positions.

Not all schools have a gunsmith set-up on site. Louis Awerbuck definately doesn't, as his school travels. He has found over the years that an overly long stock is deterimental to learning. Jeff is asking this question in relation to his attending one of Awerbuck's classes.

But I don't recall whether Louis specifically tells folks to show up with shortened stocks or if this was from the collective advise Jeff has gotten from a number of folks here.

A too-long stock will at the least "catch" on clothing. It will cause a delay in the response at a minimum.

Also, due to the length, it is difficult to get the butt pulled in tight to the shoulder. Aside from being uncomfortable, the problems are:
inability to or difficulty in controlling recoil, poor body position due to being twisted around, the can be to far out and that makes running the slide quickly difficult.

My dept has found that tall guys can shoot better with a short stocked 'gun than the shorter folks can shoot with a long stocked gun.

I'm 5'11" on a good day with a sleeve length of 33/34. My LOP is 12 1/2".

Erick

RandyB · May 29, 2003, 11:32 AM

My own 2 cents here...

On all the custom guns (muzzleloaders) and other mods to my long guns I take the crook of my elbow and measure to the relaxed postion of my index finger. When buying a gun I measure in the same manner placing the butt of the gun into the crook of my elbow and if my finger touches the trigger in a comfortable manner, it fits.

TaxPhd · May 29, 2003, 11:41 AM

If one shot with the gun mounted in the crook of the elbow, that would be a fine method indeed for measuring LOP. However, since most shoot with the gun mounted to the shoulder, that method does little, if anything, to determine proper LOP. Unfortunately, that method has been passed on as gun shop wisdom for so long that it is taken as gospel by many.

9x19mm · May 29, 2003, 12:57 PM

From what I have seen so far, primarily in O/Us, out-of-the-box sporting shotguns have longer LOP than field shotguns. Any ideas why?

May 14, 2003, 02:08 PM	#1
Jeff White Moderator Join Date: December 24, 2002 Location: Alma Illinois Posts: 10,866	How Do You Measure for Best LOP for a Shotgun? Ok, I've looked through all my references and I can't find how you measure for optimum length of pull on a defensive shotgun. I have been advised to show up at school with the stock on my Benelli M121 already cut down. It's right at 13" now and seems to fit me pretty well. Thanks, Jeff

May 14, 2003, 02:15 PM	#2
Dave McCracken Moderator Join Date: December 20, 2002 Location: MD. Posts: 11,707	Traditionally,LOP has been measured from the center of the trigger,(rear trigger if there's more than one) to the center of the butt plate or pad. 13" is on the short side, you should be alright in your class with it as is. Enjoy, and let us know how the class was. Thanks... __________________ BA/UU/R....

May 14, 2003, 03:11 PM	#4
Dave McCracken Moderator Join Date: December 20, 2002 Location: MD. Posts: 11,707	That forearm thing is just a very rough guide. A better method would be to do some fast mounts. If you can get the thing in position easily and fire it without bumping your nose on your thumb, it's close enough. We can also minic the effect of a longer or shorter stock by moving the forward hand back and forth. __________________ BA/UU/R....

May 14, 2003, 10:50 PM	#6
El Tejon Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Location: Lafayette, Indiana--meanwhile, back in the Wabash Valley . . . zzzzz. Posts: 17,898	Just make it short and then shorter! __________________ I [heart] Wal-Mart threads.

May 15, 2003, 06:26 AM	#7
Dave McCracken Moderator Join Date: December 20, 2002 Location: MD. Posts: 11,707	Rear. The front trigger is used for the distance from the standing breech on a double, IIRC. __________________ BA/UU/R....

May 14, 2003, 02:29 PM	#3
Jeff White Moderator Join Date: December 24, 2002 Location: Alma Illinois Posts: 10,866	Dave, I meant to say the stock was 13 inches long now. Isn't there a way to measure my forearm length and come up with the best LOP from trigger to butt plate? Sorry for the confusion. I'll post a reveiw of the class here. Jeff

May 14, 2003, 09:55 PM	#5
TaxPhd Member Join Date: December 31, 2002 Location: Monroe, GA Posts: 472	Dave, are you sure on the LOP measurement for a two trigger gun? I always thought it was from the front trigger.

May 15, 2003, 07:04 AM	#8
sm Member Join Date: December 23, 2002 Posts: 26,501	Great, now I'm . I go and consult Brister, then Misseldine and they were of no help. Seems as If LOP on a English Shotgun with double triggers was measured from rear trigger. Being English and all they measured from front trigger on a double rifle. They do things like that. Then somewhere in my gray matter, some American Shotgun maker suggested LOP be measured from Front trigger. Something about English straight vs Churchill vs semi-pistol and pistol grip. Of course the English called the pump gun an "enigma". What do they know, they put the steering wheel on the wrong side . Can we all agree that El Tejon needs to back away from the saw and put the shotgun in a safe place Jeff White: perhaps find a slip on pad and see if a change of LOP makes a difference. This way you can see/feel the difference. At class you can try both and maybe get some assistance with fit. Since LOP can affect comb, take along some moleskin to build up comb. Lessee , longer LOP raises comb, shorter ( too short) one may need to raise ( moleskin). I think that's right...more coffee... __________________ Use Enough Gun TFL illuminaughty

May 15, 2003, 08:57 AM	#9
BigG Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Location: Dixieland Posts: 6,643	We have lots of guys at our range that have muy expensivo guns with what look like "try" stocks,, comb, LOP, etc adjustable. Then we have guys with similar guns with the Bondo treatment. __________________ Hatcher's Notebook Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson, 3rd Edition African Rifles and Cartridges Sixguns, by Keith M14 Rifle Winchester 1866 -1873 -1876 Rifles The Maxim Gun Wilson - Automatic Pistols Percussion Pistols & Revolvers - MEC Bob Brister - Shotgunning The Black Rifle

May 15, 2003, 02:30 PM	#10
JShirley Administrator Join Date: December 20, 2002 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,351	One way some get LOP is to hold the weapon with the stock against the bicep. Ideal is to have the finger comfortably reach trigger. Like Dave said, though, you have to try mounting the weapon to see if you have the right pull length. (Also your shooting gear will dictate LOP: are you shooting in heavy winter clothes? Body armor?) Since I'm a hobbit, my LOP is pretty short... John

May 15, 2003, 03:00 PM	#11
Dave McCracken Moderator Join Date: December 20, 2002 Location: MD. Posts: 11,707	When using this method, the trigger falls at the base of my trigger finger. Except for winter geese and Kevlar events, that's a bit short.. 73, longer stocks have more drop. The cheek's further back. The older I get, the more I think that drop is more criucial than LOP. As for the English, they like their beer warm and they mangle their own language. __________________ BA/UU/R....

May 15, 2003, 03:19 PM	#12
JShirley Administrator Join Date: December 20, 2002 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,351	'Bout an inch short, Dave? John lucky when he buys Comblock shoulder arms, unlucky when he buys 'Merican ones.

May 15, 2003, 07:07 PM	#13
tlhelmer Member Join Date: December 25, 2002 Location: Southern Indiana Posts: 579	Does LOP mean length of pull?

May 15, 2003, 08:28 PM	#14
sm Member Join Date: December 23, 2002 Posts: 26,501	yes, LOP = length of pull. Dave, thanks for correction on above, I got it flipped/flopped...cough cough...chalk dust... __________________ Use Enough Gun TFL illuminaughty

May 16, 2003, 08:37 AM	#15
tlhelmer Member Join Date: December 25, 2002 Location: Southern Indiana Posts: 579	Thanks re1973 Speedfeed makes a 13" lop for Remington 870's

May 20, 2003, 10:51 PM	#16
Gila Jorge Member Join Date: December 26, 2002 Location: El Paso, Texas Posts: 272	Horsefeathers! Length of pull indicated by bicep to finger joint only accounts for your sleeve length and says nothing about your neck length and whether you are a stock crawler or not. I have a longish neck, kee[ my head on the stock, and a 33 inch sleeve and shoot a 14.5 inch stock in winter and 14.625 in summer. I also use 1.5 inches of pitch in a field gun to reduce recoil and float my targets. Do NOT do any cutting unless you like buying replacement stocks. Have the gun fitted ny a semi pro shooter at the range while you are shooting it. Use shims to get the length best for you. Blessings.

May 22, 2003, 09:17 AM	#17
mete Member Join Date: December 31, 2002 Location: NY Posts: 3,513	What kind of school is this that tells you to cut the stock if they don't know how big you are ?

May 26, 2003, 01:20 AM	#18
Erick Gelhaus Moderator Emeritus Join Date: December 22, 2002 Location: northern CA Posts: 379	mete- The reason is that because most, if not all, "stock" shotgun stocks are too long for defensive work / training. This training / work involves mounting the stock quickly from three ready positions and slung positions. Not all schools have a gunsmith set-up on site. Louis Awerbuck definately doesn't, as his school travels. He has found over the years that an overly long stock is deterimental to learning. Jeff is asking this question in relation to his attending one of Awerbuck's classes. But I don't recall whether Louis specifically tells folks to show up with shortened stocks or if this was from the collective advise Jeff has gotten from a number of folks here. A too-long stock will at the least "catch" on clothing. It will cause a delay in the response at a minimum. Also, due to the length, it is difficult to get the butt pulled in tight to the shoulder. Aside from being uncomfortable, the problems are: inability to or difficulty in controlling recoil, poor body position due to being twisted around, the can be to far out and that makes running the slide quickly difficult. My dept has found that tall guys can shoot better with a short stocked 'gun than the shorter folks can shoot with a long stocked gun. I'm 5'11" on a good day with a sleeve length of 33/34. My LOP is 12 1/2". Erick

May 29, 2003, 11:32 AM	#19
RandyB Member Join Date: May 1, 2003 Location: indiana Posts: 433	My own 2 cents here... On all the custom guns (muzzleloaders) and other mods to my long guns I take the crook of my elbow and measure to the relaxed postion of my index finger. When buying a gun I measure in the same manner placing the butt of the gun into the crook of my elbow and if my finger touches the trigger in a comfortable manner, it fits. __________________ RandyB. "The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly... and spends himself in a worthy cause...so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat." -Theodore Roosevelt

May 29, 2003, 11:41 AM	#20
TaxPhd Member Join Date: December 31, 2002 Location: Monroe, GA Posts: 472	If one shot with the gun mounted in the crook of the elbow, that would be a fine method indeed for measuring LOP. However, since most shoot with the gun mounted to the shoulder, that method does little, if anything, to determine proper LOP. Unfortunately, that method has been passed on as gun shop wisdom for so long that it is taken as gospel by many.

May 29, 2003, 12:57 PM	#21
9x19mm Member Join Date: December 26, 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 76	From what I have seen so far, primarily in O/Us, out-of-the-box sporting shotguns have longer LOP than field shotguns. Any ideas why?

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode