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Old March 22, 2015, 01:54 PM   #1
Joshua M.
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NICS Rant...

As a small gunshop owner, I find it more and more frustrating that a NICS background check goes to delay, knowing that I probably just lost that sale because it was an impulse purchase. The dedicated customers are one thing, but the new customers that just stop by to see what we have, and impulse says I'll take this, or that, and it goes to delay, and pretty sure they will just go somewhere else closer to home and buy something else. I've known this guy for a long time, and have been with him when he has bought a gun before, and now it goes to delay. Last time I had a regular customer come in and his actually just got denied, just to receive an email from NICS that they were having "problems" later that evening. The conspiracy theorist in me says it's the antis getting into something...
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Old March 22, 2015, 02:04 PM   #2
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Gets old dont it? With the new washinton I594 we have to hold all delayed guns for 10days or until further notice... the pile stacks up when you sell on average 15 guns a day and on average 4 a day get delayed.
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Old March 22, 2015, 03:23 PM   #3
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I've never had one delayed but I don't understand why we don't just have a system where if someone isn't trustworthy enough to have guns, they're in prison.
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Old March 22, 2015, 04:04 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnerboy View Post
With the new washinton I594 we have to hold all delayed guns for 10days or until further notice... the pile stacks up when you sell on average 15 guns a day and on average 4 a day get delayed.
Why is that -- a store policy or some law? If the customer has a concealed pistol license and gets a delay, can't you still transfer after the 3 full business day delay timeout?

I always get delayed, so I've been dealing with that for a long time.
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Old March 22, 2015, 04:14 PM   #5
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Washington state has a new law more restrictive than federal. One of those Pelosi-grams, they had to pass it to know what was in it.

If you "always get delayed" and buy enough guns that it is a problem, get a PIN to distinguish you from That Other suemarkp with a shady past.

I think a lot of delays and "computer problems" are just the government's way of reminding us who is in charge.
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Old March 22, 2015, 04:17 PM   #6
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Jeez, it's that high? Four of fifteen? Hardly an 'instant background check' in any way whatsoever. Maybe ya'll need a better data connections out there, or something?

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Old March 22, 2015, 04:37 PM   #7
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Quote:
Joshua M. As a small gunshop owner, I find it more and more frustrating that a NICS background check goes to delay, knowing that I probably just lost that sale because it was an impulse purchase.
Collect the $$$$ first. This stops those buyers who just want to see if they can pass the check.


Quote:
Skribs ..... I don't understand why we don't just have a system where if someone isn't trustworthy enough to have guns, they're in prison.
Because someone who "isn't trustworthy" isn't necessarily a criminal.
Not all of the criteria that makes a buyer prohibited have noting to do with crime.



Quote:
barnbwt .... Four of fifteen? Hardly an 'instant background check' in any way whatsoever.
Doesn't matter if its 99 out of 100.......the check IS "instant" vs the five day mandatory waiting period before the implementation of the FBI NICS in 1998.
Being "instant" only means that the check may be made at the time of sale, and not have to wait five days for the local PD to run a background check. It is an exceedingly efficient system and there is no doubt that it is a better system than having all customers come back a week later.

A "delay" doesn't mean the background check is delayed.......just the transaction.
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Old March 22, 2015, 05:11 PM   #8
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An exceedingly efficient system would truly be instant. This is simply one that seems to work better than other other more disagreeable options presented to us.
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Old March 22, 2015, 05:45 PM   #9
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MErl An exceedingly efficient system would truly be instant.
It IS instant.
The dealer get a NICS result every time he calls or if he uses E Check.

Funny how those that have never used FBI NICS know all about it.
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Old March 22, 2015, 05:56 PM   #10
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But if it's delayed, it's under "further review" therefore not instant, and I am familiar with it.
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Old March 22, 2015, 06:08 PM   #11
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No its definatly instant for you impatient people haha. The anwser is instant its either A) proceed B) Further review/ possible delay or C) Denied.... 3 Instant anwsers! They just have one that might not be what you like.
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Old March 22, 2015, 06:14 PM   #12
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Gunnerboy No its definatly instant for you impatient people haha. The anwser is instant its either A) proceed B) Further review/ possible delay or C) Denied.... 3 Instant anwsers! They just have one that might not be what you like.
This.
Unfortunately folks think "instant check" = "instant proceed".......it is a mistaken assumption.
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Old March 22, 2015, 07:56 PM   #13
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So the review isn't the check?
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Old March 22, 2015, 10:06 PM   #14
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Instant check (to me at least) means you ask "May I sell a gun to John Doe, Yes/No?" and get an answer to that question in a couple minutes. A response of "Maybe, I'll tell you later." does not answer the question.

(Here in CO we have our own version which struggles to meet the couple minutes part but can still answer Maybe to a yes/no question.)
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Old March 22, 2015, 10:37 PM   #15
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I suppose if you want an "instant" Yes/No answer, when there is any doubt the answer would be "No". Would that make you happy?
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Old March 22, 2015, 10:45 PM   #16
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My point was "nearly one third of your customers being delayed?" as that sounded really high

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Old March 22, 2015, 10:48 PM   #17
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Yes that number is really high.. but where i live has some of the highest crime rates of the state of WA for populace.. So lots of people have past issues and rights restored.
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Old March 22, 2015, 10:57 PM   #18
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What I always find interesting is the number of states that issue permits of some sort that bypass NICS, and STILL NICS cant seem to keep up.
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Old March 23, 2015, 12:36 AM   #19
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newfalguy101 What I always find interesting is the number of states that issue permits of some sort that bypass NICS, and STILL NICS cant seem to keep up.
Where did you get the idea that NICS "can't seem to keep up"?
How many NICS checks have you run?

FBI NICS calls are almost always answered by the second ring.
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Old March 23, 2015, 12:43 PM   #20
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Dogtown, my point is the criteria are flawed. If you are allowed in society, you have the potential to cause harm with far more than firearms. If they're too scary to give a gun to, they're too scary to give cars and power tools to.
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Old March 23, 2015, 12:52 PM   #21
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I've never had a delay with a check, they've all been instant in my case. That said, when a transaction is delayed for further review or wrongly refused, the check isn't instant, the delay is instant. The check isn't to answer the phone, or simply give one of three answers, it is to determine if the individual is prohibited from purchasing a firearm. If that determination cannot be correctly made instantly, then it isn't an instant check.
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Old March 23, 2015, 01:51 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua M. View Post
As a small gunshop owner, I find it more and more frustrating that a NICS background check goes to delay, knowing that I probably just lost that sale because it was an impulse purchase. The dedicated customers are one thing, but the new customers that just stop by to see what we have, and impulse says I'll take this, or that, and it goes to delay, and pretty sure they will just go somewhere else closer to home and buy something else.

The conspiracy theorist in me says it's the antis getting into something...

How is this any different than the car salesman or the realtor that thinks they've made a sale, only to have the buyer come back and say their loan wasn't approved? Ask any car salesman, he'll tell you the percentage is high that you'll never see the customer again once they walk of the lot. Just a part of doing business. As Dogtown says, take the money up front for the NICS. I doubt that it would change the mind of an impulse buyer. Just as a delay may cause an impulse buyer to go elsewhere, the instant okay for the majority of them means you've made a sale. Can't have your cake and eat it too. My LGS says many times the check is delayed because of incorrect or incomplete info. The majority of the time it's because someone with a common name doesn't give the SS#.

No system is perfect, and for many of us the check is just a formality. I've bought no fewer than 50 guns since the system was originated and have yet to be denied. Still, I have to submit to one every-time. While many may feel the check is unnecessary and the criteria flawed(I'm one of those), I feel it's a better system than some of the others that have been proposed. I also feel those that feel the fact some folks get denied is a conspiracy by the anti's, need to go out and get some tin-foil......
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Old March 23, 2015, 01:56 PM   #23
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It's the antis that got into something long ago.
Up here, nearly all the old small gun shops have closed due to government interference in business. And there are no background checks. Just a useless licence that proves you're not nuts or a criminal. Hasn't stopped a single crime.
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Old March 23, 2015, 02:46 PM   #24
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The way I would look at is that a citizen has a constitution right to own or buy a firearm, subject to some exclusions, which I agree with. If the answer to the NICS is:

1. No, but NICS is wrong and it should have been a yes, that is a constitutional violation.

or

2. Maybe, wait for day/week, but the answer should have been yes, that is a constitutional violation.

I don't have to get permission to pray to my God or say what I want, (or wait a way or week for permission), and someone who is allowed to buy should have not to wait to exercise their constitutional right to buy/own a firearm. This is not the DMV or a home loan, this is a constitutional right that is possibly being wrongfully denied due to the delay.

There is also the lose of income for the OP who is trying to make a living.
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Old March 23, 2015, 05:56 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogtown tom View Post
Where did you get the idea that NICS "can't seem to keep up"?
How many NICS checks have you run?

FBI NICS calls are almost always answered by the second ring.
I based my comments primarily on two criteria:

1) I believe there are fewer than five states that require NICS be used for every firearm transaction, the rest have permits of one type or another to bypass the NICS check.

2) The number of outages, down times for maintenance and the seemingly increase in delays.

Truth is I have only run a handful ( less than 20 ) NICS checks in the ten years I have had my FFL, and have only had two or three delays and zero denies. The rest of the time, customers have had the aforementioned permit.

None of my calls have lasted what I would consider an excessive amount of time, so for me it has worked just fine, however, I DO see a fair number of FFL holders commenting on how long some calls take and there does seem to be an increase in delays......real or imagined.
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