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Old July 22, 2016, 11:54 AM   #1
Jeff H
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While maybe not a good idea, really arrested?

Given the facts presented in this article, I don't understand how this man is being cited. Is it against the law in NY to have a gun in your own home? Understanding that he did go outside but presumably never left his front porch.

http://patch.com/new-york/malverne-l...is-door-police
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Old July 22, 2016, 12:01 PM   #2
rodregier
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"...tapped on the front glass door with the gun..."

That is consistent with a charge of "second degree menacing" IMHO.
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Old July 22, 2016, 12:38 PM   #3
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How about the charge of possession of a dangerous weapon? Is his gun a violation of the SAFE act?
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Old July 22, 2016, 12:53 PM   #4
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Given the facts presented in this article, I don't understand how this man is being cited. Is it against the law in NY to have a gun in your own home?
I hope you are joking.

He displayed the gun while pointing at a sign, and he tapped on the glass with it.

That's prescription for trouble in every US state and possession.

One may not lawfully try to make a point with a gun without justification.
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Old July 22, 2016, 12:59 PM   #5
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Heck, he would likely be charged here in gun friendly Arkansas for something that stupid.
You can't display a firearm when you are clearly in no danger. Certainly not simply for someone coming up and knocking on your door.
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Old July 22, 2016, 01:05 PM   #6
Jeff H
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kleanbore View Post
I hope you are joking.

He displayed the gun while pointing at a sign, and he tapped on the glass with it.

That's prescription for trouble in every US state and possession.

One may not lawfully try to make a point with a gun without justification.
Not at all. I guess I saw the situation unfolding differently.

Man hears strange knock on the door. A door that he clearly has a posted sign on. He answers the door armed as many of us would. Not seeing a real perceived threat, he doesn't point the gun at the fireman, but instead points to the "no peddling" sign. Since his other hand is probably holding the door, he uses the gun to point.

Quote:
He then tapped on the front glass door with the gun, pointing to a sign that read “DO NOT KNOCK, NO PEDDLERS” and told the volunteer to “go away," police said.
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Old July 22, 2016, 01:11 PM   #7
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He answers the door armed as many of us would.
Very poor idea.
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Old July 22, 2016, 02:00 PM   #8
Haxby
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A fireman came to the door. He tapped on the front glass door with a gun and told him to go away.
Cops came to the door. He must have tried something different with them.
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Old July 22, 2016, 02:54 PM   #9
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You must be licensed to possess a handgun in NY. Not just carried concealed, but just to possess, even in your own home. Each handgun you possess, the make, caliber, and serial number is listed on the back of your license.

Not so for long guns, no license necessary except in NYC, and possibly other large cities that can make their own rules via administrative codes.

Even if you are licensed, you may not display the handgun in NY.
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Old July 22, 2016, 03:31 PM   #10
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Guy seems like a bit of a jerk, but I am not thrilled about living in a society where what he did gets you arrested. In other words, if it's against the law, then I disagree with the law. You should not be allowed to hurt anyone, but you should be allowed to be a jerk.
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Old July 22, 2016, 03:50 PM   #11
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In other words, if it's against the law, then I disagree with the law. You should not be allowed to hurt anyone, but you should be allowed to be a jerk.
I isn't that he was "being a jerk".

If he did in fact display a firearm for the purpose of causing the man to leave, he committed a crime--a serious one.

As previously stated, it would be unlawful in every stare and in every US possession. In New York State, it is apparently classified as second degree menacing. In Alabama, menacing. In Arizona, it would be called aggravated assault. In California, it would be called a crime against the public peace. Where I live, it would be called the careless and reckless exhibition of a firearm--and assault charges could be added.

Not only is it a crime, it is a very good way for someone to get himself struck, slammed, or or shot--very likely in justified self defense.

See this.
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Old July 22, 2016, 04:02 PM   #12
Vern Humphrey
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Quote:
Very poor idea.
There are times when it is not lawful to be armed, but there is never a time when it is simply a "very poor idea."
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Old July 22, 2016, 06:44 PM   #13
old lady new shooter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kleanbore View Post
Very poor idea.
I have security doors, so I can open the wood door and converse with the person outside with no risk of them being able to get in through the door.

That said, not long ago I did answer the door (only opening the wood door) armed because rather than the doorbell or knocking, the sound was clearly someone trying the security door. However, I had the gun behind my leg where it would not be visible to whomever was outside. By the time I reached the door no one was there, a great relief. However, when I opened my computer a short while later I found a community email warning everyone that a man released from jail the day before was going house to house in the neighborhood trying doors, not leaving when asked etc. Obviously I thought I was justified without having read that, but reading it confirmed my thoughts.
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Old July 22, 2016, 07:41 PM   #14
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This guy doesn't represent gun owners in a positive way. Hopefully this can be resolved without any prison time, but better judgement should prevail.
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Old July 22, 2016, 08:58 PM   #15
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Kleanbore responds to this:

Quote:
He answers the door armed as many of us would
..with this:

Quote:
Very poor idea.
My gun is always on my hip, though usually concealed. In my jurisdiction, I am considered armed.

In your opinion, should I be removing and storing it away any time I answer the door? I haven't been so far. (I'm questioning your post at its 3-word face value, without reading anything further into it.)
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Old July 22, 2016, 09:22 PM   #16
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Well at least he didn't just shoot thru the door . Like some people do.


“DO NOT KNOCK, NO PEDDLERS” May be fireman should have read sign and left.
My house you knock on front door I come out a 2nd door you can't see and I am approx. 10' from you . Asking what you want Makes a lot of people jump !
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Old July 22, 2016, 09:40 PM   #17
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this gave me a laugh,thanks (jack in the box)
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Old July 22, 2016, 09:42 PM   #18
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poor judgement on how to act and where to live. Before the state buries him for being so menacing at his private and posted home, he should have the trespasser arrested. With all the scams people play on homeowners, i don't fault him for enforcing his rules but showing the gun just lets a robber know where to come back when you do leave for work, groceries, or more ammo. I have answered the door holding an 8' boa constrictor because we were in the middle of his bath. Usually, the Jehovahs Witnesses want to come in to talk but when i offerred, they claimed i looked too busy and never came back.
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Old July 22, 2016, 09:58 PM   #19
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There are times when it is not lawful to be armed, but there is never a time when it is simply a "very poor idea."
It is';t a matter of "being armed", it is a matter of having gun in hand in very close proximity to a possible attacker,
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Old July 22, 2016, 09:58 PM   #20
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The firefighter could've kept this whole incident from happening.


I wonder if he also regularly disregards "flammable" signs?
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Old July 23, 2016, 07:52 AM   #21
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Quote:
came to the door holding a black handgun in his left hand and exited the home,
He walked outside gun in hand, then pointed to the sign with the gun. He's outside on the porch waving the gun around.

It's a fireman, irregardless of his obtuse behavior ignoring the sign, he isn't a "bad guy" and you don't need to be waving a gun around telling him to get off your lawn, so to speak.

There's lots of options before that - like, ignore the front door and anybody who knocks regardless of your sign. I read this stuff on phone forums, if it rings people think they are obligated to answer and then complain about robodialers constantly calling them. The better thing to do: DON'T ANSWER.

That alone puts the enforcement in what the sign says.

In a tactical light, the situation is exactly how intruders get in most of the time. Homeowners open the door with no sense that the person there just might be attempting evil. It's really a matter of social conditioning and how we get taken advantage because of it.

This case? Total fail in almost every sense. He earned the right to be cited for brandishing a firearm. No, he is not "one of us," he's the people who buy a gun for "protection" and then use it to menace when it's unnecessary. He is why there ARE laws against it.
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Old July 23, 2016, 09:15 AM   #22
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Opening door with pistol in hand

Good morning all.
I am relatively new to this forum, and should probably mind my own business, but the situation the OP cites begs responses. I am, and have been a gun owner and enthusiast for most of my remembered life. I have been in L/E in both California and Virginia, so I believe I do have some perspective. Unless the person the OP is speaking of genuinely felt threatened, he had legitimate right to openly display any type of weapon in this case, whether in your own home or in public. Have a pistol on your person(concealed) or within reach, by all means. In many, if not most states, even those with open carry, if some bleeding heart liberal sees your firearm and is alarmed, or 'feels threatened' by it's presence, the carrier could be charged with brandishing. In the OP-cited incident, unless the person felt threatened, he acted quite stupidly, and was definitely brandishing at the very least.
As stated so eloquently by another member, this is my opinion, and we all know about opinions(They are like anal orifices--everybody(mostly) has one, and they all are odoriferous.
Anywho, I will get off my soap box and go home get ready for the lambasting. Have a good day all.
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Old July 23, 2016, 09:41 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Ol' Boy View Post
The firefighter could've kept this whole incident from happening.


I wonder if he also regularly disregards "flammable" signs?
Exactly what I've been thinking. The firefighter was a jerk and an idiot for disregarding the sign. But yeah, the home owner was also clearly an idiot.
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Old July 23, 2016, 09:42 AM   #24
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The usual definition of assault, based on the Common Law is:
Quote:
an intentional act by one person that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent harmful or offensive contact.
In the laws of some States this crime might be given another name. For example, in Alabama it's called "menacing." But by whatever name it is called, it is a crime in every State.

So a display of a firearm, when done for the purposes of intimidation, or to secure compliance, or to convince someone to keep his distance, or in response to a perceived threat is, in all States, an assault of some type. You are effectively putting someone in fear of an imminent harmful or offensive contact, i. e., getting shot.

Now in all States it will be a defense against a charge of assault (or any similar crime) if you establish that your assault satisfied the applicable legal standard for justification.

In most States the standard for justifying a threat of lethal force is the same as for justifying the use of lethal force in self defense. In a few, it's a somewhat lesser standard. So in all States if you threaten lethal force you will need to be able to at least show prima facie such threat was legally justified, that is if you want to avoid a conviction for assault.

See the thread: "Brandishing", and "When Can I Draw"?
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Old July 23, 2016, 10:26 AM   #25
Kleanbore
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The firefighter was a jerk and an idiot for disregarding the sign,....
Completely irrelevant.

Quote:
....and he was an even bigger jerk for being a prissy little #@$&% and squealing to the cops over it.
For reporting a crime?

Might that not be required departmental procedure?

Quote:
But yeah, the home owner was also clearly an idiot.
More than that. Now he has been charged with criminal behavior.
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