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Old July 24, 2014, 06:02 PM   #1
Bartholomew Roberts
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Concealed Handgun Licensee Stops Philadelphia Hospital Shooting

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/s...jures-24701204

A psychiatric patient shot and killed his case worker and another unidentified person as well as shooting his doctor, and caused a lockdown in Philadelphia hospital. The incident will not qualify as a mass shooting by FBI standards though because he only grazed the doctor, who was carrying a concealed handgun (apparently in violation of hospital policy) and shot the patient, stopping any further carnage.
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Old July 24, 2014, 06:12 PM   #2
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wow

Definitely will be interesting to see how this one shakes out. There have been plenty of "what if" scenarios that I have seen on the Internet about having a "good shoot" in a place that is illegal to carry.
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Old July 24, 2014, 06:15 PM   #3
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Investigators believe the doctor had his own gun and acted in self-defense, District Attorney Jack Whelan said.
Quote:
Just what led to the shooting was unknown, Whalen said. Two guns were recovered, and the shooting was still being investigated.
If one of these was the Dr's how long after (if he is no billed) before his firearm is returned to him providing such a shooting needs to go to the grand jury?

Sadly he may still lose his job.
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Old July 24, 2014, 06:36 PM   #4
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Interesting.

Doing a little research, it looks like Pennsylvania doesn't have a law similar to SC, where it's not legal to carry a firearm in a "hospital, medical clinic, doctor's office, or any other facility where medical services or procedures are performed unless expressly authorized by the employer".

And no guns laws don't have the force of law in Pennsylvania, either.


HOWEVER, that won't prevent the hospital from taking administrative or disciplinary actions against the doctor for violating their policy. He could be fired. Under paragraph 9 of their Code of Conduct (about safety):

"Employees are prohibited from bringing firearms or explosives of any kind into the workplace."


As for my personal opinion...good on the doctor.
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Old July 24, 2014, 06:45 PM   #5
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I know first hand how some of these doctors and mental health care professionals feel. My wife is a psychiatric nurse practitioner and she worries about stuff like this all the time. She was confronted by one of her patients while she was shopping awhile back. The woman was pretty aggressive. Luckily nothing became of it but it upset her. I've been trying to get her to get a CPP and some training but she won't do it. She is retiring at the end of the year so maybe we can get by until then.

Unless they are going to screen everyone at the door of the hospital they need to let the staff carry if they have a license. I've seen signs to the effect that you can't carry a weapon into a hospital but if that's the case they better provide some security and enforce it. The hospital may be looking at a lawsuit for not providing any security.
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Old July 24, 2014, 07:24 PM   #6
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"Contrary to hospital policy", it sounds good right now. The Doc deserves a medal, not any grief. I think he'll come through just fine.

A Parade down Broad Street would be good for starters.
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Old July 24, 2014, 08:16 PM   #7
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This happened about a mile away from where I live. I work in in Philly and I carry daily for this exact reason. My office also has a no weapon policy but I don't mention that I carry and they don't ask.

I really hope they don't try and ruin this guys career over this but its better than letting yourself be killed regardless.
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Old July 24, 2014, 08:22 PM   #8
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I really hope they don't try and ruin this guys career over this but its better than letting yourself be killed regardless.
The Truth.
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Old July 24, 2014, 11:51 PM   #9
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I see a new private practice in this doc's future! I pray for him, that he is able to withstand the onslaught from his employer.

That said, I'd do it any day. Lose my job, sucks, lose my life, my family suffers every day of their existence.

I'm wondering if the case manager was armed, would there be a dead case manager, or even an injured doctor? Humans have the God given right to defend their life, an employer can do what they wish, but I'm glad he did what he did.
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Old July 25, 2014, 12:16 AM   #10
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Interesting...

I was hospitalized right across the river in Camden NJ for six months back in 1996 after an airplane crash.

Almost all of the attending physicians carried in the hospital. I found this out while I was reading a copy of shotgun news when one of them came in to see me. We chatted a bit about my recovery and then he changed the subject to guns when he saw what I was reading. He was a knowlagable enthusiast, and had much to say about wound ballistics, seeing as how the trauma team there treated an average of ten gunshot wound victims a week...


Legalities? I never asked. That was probably best.



Willie

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Old July 25, 2014, 01:13 AM   #11
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Sounds very similar to a case in a Boston hospital in 2009 when a bystander, Paul Langone, legally carrying his personal concealed handgun, shot and killed a mental patient who was stabbing a doctor.
I don't know whether Mass. General Hospital was posted against firearms at the time; I'd be amazed if it wasn't.

http://homenewshere.com/article_3491...add063e27.html

The DA's report, in which no charges were filed against Langone included these statements:
Quote:
Mr. Langone acted lawfully when he opened fire
Quote:
The Suffolk DA’s office and Boston Police Department investigate all fatal shootings in the City of Boston, whether by a police officer or a civilian. Many are immediately obvious as criminal homicides; shootings such as this one are very rare. At Staniford Street, we had a civilian shooter using a licensed firearm in apparent self-defense and defense of another. He stayed at the scene and readily identified himself to responding Boston and State Police.
That investigation remains ongoing and active, but the evidence at the scene, the shooter's statements, and the accounts of multiple witnesses all indicate that Mr. Langone acted lawfully when he discharged his firearm. There is strong evidence that he saved the doctor's life — and possibly other lives — in doing so.
If good sense can occasionally prevail in anti-gun Boston, let's hope it can in Philadelphia too.

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Old July 25, 2014, 01:17 AM   #12
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It's not like a psychiatrist has a hard time getting work in this day and age.. Considering his vigilance and now heroic reputation, he probably will be more in demand in the psychiatric field than ever before.. The hospital should beg him to stay not leave.
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Old July 25, 2014, 03:06 AM   #13
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I carry at the hospital that I work 3rd shift at. It is not allowed by hospital policies but is legal. As long as I keep it concealed, which I do, its not a problem. Even if someone groped me they would just think it was a wallet or something in my front pocket because of the holster. We see a lot of crazies walk in here and I don't want to be caught in that situation without some way to defend myself. If I have to use it and it saves my life. Then they fire me because of it, then to hell with them at least I am still alive. Just a couple months ago someone was walking around outside the hospital shooting. I was not on that night but people are still talking about it here.
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Old July 25, 2014, 06:11 AM   #14
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I'm waiting to see how the anti-gun crowd reacts to this. My guess is they will gloss over the doctor's heroic act and claim that if we had universal registration the mental patient would have been previously disarmed and the event would have never happened. I'm checking other blogs now to see how long it takes for that argument to surface.
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Old July 25, 2014, 07:22 AM   #15
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Based on the Police Chief's comment that the doc undoubtedly saved lives and the fact that it was a totally justified SD shooting, I doubt that there will be charges filed. I can't wait to see the doc interviewed on Fox News. He should become a poster child for Concealed Carry and what a responsible legally armed citizen can do. My hat is off to him for valuing his and other's personal safety over some silly rule that may ultimately cost him his job....which I doubt he cares much about at this point.
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Old July 25, 2014, 11:53 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Plan2Live View Post
I'm waiting to see how the anti-gun crowd reacts to this. My guess is they will gloss over the doctor's heroic act and claim that if we had universal registration the mental patient would have been previously disarmed and the event would have never happened. I'm checking other blogs now to see how long it takes for that argument to surface.
The anti-gun crowd simply won't acknowledge this event. They'll ignore it, glaze over it in the media, and otherwise refuse discuss it or otherwise bring it out in the light.
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Old July 25, 2014, 12:12 PM   #17
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MSN home page

Authorities are trying to determine more about the relationship between Dr. Lee Silverman and Plotts, including whether the doctor had reason to fear him and why he had a gun.
______________________________________________________________
The hospital said its policy bars anyone but on-duty law enforcement officers from bringing a weapon on to its campus.
_______________________________________________________________

Authorities are trying to determine why a man identified as a patient fatally shot a caseworker at a hospital complex in a Philadelphia suburb and whether a psychiatrist who pulled out his own gun and wounded the patient had concerns about him.

The psychiatrist, Dr. Lee Silverman, was grazed in the temple during the gunfight in his office Thursday afternoon with patient Richard Plotts, Delaware County District Attorney Jack Whelan said.
_______________________________________________________________
"When the caseworker was shot, (Silverman) crouched down behind the desk to avoid him being shot," Whelan said. "He was able to reach for his weapon, and realizing it was a life or death situation, was able to engage the defendant in the exchange of gunfire."
_______________________________________________________________

But Yeadon Police Chief Donald Molineux said that "without a doubt, I believe the doctor saved lives."

"Without that firearm, this guy (the patient) could have went out in the hallway and just walked down the offices until he ran out of ammunition," the chief said.
_____________________________________________________________
Plotts does not have a listed home phone number. Court records in Delaware County show a man of the same name and age with a lengthy criminal record, but Whelan was unsure if it was the same person.
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Link to article

http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/ca...patient-doctor
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Old July 25, 2014, 01:45 PM   #18
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"whether a psychiatrist who pulled out his own gun and wounded the patient had concerns about him."

I know the area and work with folks like this. Anyone with more than 2 functioning brain cells would have had a concern. I can think of several of my own patients I would prefer not to be alone with. I hope they're not going to try and spin this into some premeditation nonsense.
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Old July 25, 2014, 01:52 PM   #19
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USA Today’s story is “Pa. doctor shoots patient”. Hmmm
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Old July 25, 2014, 02:07 PM   #20
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Sounds more like the doctor knows how impossible it is to get a violent mental patient committed for treatment thanks to all those "caring" liberals in the 1960's....
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Old July 25, 2014, 03:07 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Plan2Live View Post
I'm waiting to see how the anti-gun crowd reacts to this. My guess is they will gloss over the doctor's heroic act and claim that if we had universal registration the mental patient would have been previously disarmed and the event would have never happened. I'm checking other blogs now to see how long it takes for that argument to surface.
Please let us know.
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Old July 25, 2014, 03:47 PM   #22
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great action by the Doc. I'm sure he will be fine despite violating hospital policies. I doubt they sue him or press charges and even if he gets terminated... he will find employment with ANY hospital in the surroundings in no time.
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Old July 26, 2014, 10:41 AM   #23
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If one of these was the Dr's how long after (if he is no billed) before his firearm is returned to him providing such a shooting needs to go to the grand jury?

Sadly he may still lose his job.
The DR will probably never get his back. He may have a carry license issued by some PA county, but Philly itself is a "gun free zone". Hence, by having the ability to defend himself, and others in the hospital, he has run afoul of Philly law and will most likely be prosecuted himself.

Sad, but true.
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Old July 26, 2014, 11:53 AM   #24
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but Philly itself is a "gun free zone". Hence, by having the ability to defend himself, and others in the hospital, he has run afoul of Philly law and will most likely be prosecuted himself.

Sad, but true.
Dude, WTH are you talking about? There's not a lick of truth in this.

PA has preemption so firearms laws are universal throughout the state. The one exception is that to OPEN carry in Philly requires a LCTF (carry permit). Seeing as the Doctor DID have a permit, and wasn't open carrying anyway, that's irrelevant.

Where do people get these ideas?
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Old July 26, 2014, 12:02 PM   #25
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Yea for the right to carry.
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