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Old July 26, 2015, 08:55 AM   #1
G11354
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Mounting Gun Safe To Wooden Floor Help?

I recently purchased a cheap "Stack-On" gun safe weighing only 168 pounds. I have no concrete flooring and plan to install the safe in my closet.

Any suggestions for securing the safe to a wooden floor would be much appreciated.

Gun safe dimensions are 20-7/8" W (53cm), 20-1/16" D (51cm), 55-1/8" H (140cm).
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Old July 26, 2015, 09:28 AM   #2
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If you can get to the bottom side of the floor make big washers out of plate steel 4 or 6 inch square to run bolt thru before nut.
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Old July 26, 2015, 09:33 AM   #3
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Lag screws into the floor joists will work
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Old July 26, 2015, 09:38 AM   #4
G11354
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Appreciate the feedback. Sadly I cannot access the bottom side of the floor and it seems the floor joists may be spread to wide for the safe.
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Old July 26, 2015, 11:06 AM   #5
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Since the floor is inaccessible, you might try to line the safe up with wall studs and drill through the safe to lag bolt into the studs. This is not a perfect solution but it likely would slow someone down while attempting to drag the safe out of the closet. Slowing them down and complicating their job might be enough to discourage them from remaining on the crime scene.
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Old July 26, 2015, 11:20 AM   #6
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I'll concur with lagging into studs/joists. That will make it awkward for them to take off with the whole safe. But those safes aren't particularly well fortified against someone with a flatbar and sledge hammer popping the door open, so there's still some concern there. I have a light duty safe in my closet as well. I added things like metal racks/shelves all around it on the sides and protruding past the front of the safe. I left enough room for the door to safely and easily swing open, but getting any kind of good angle to attack hinges or the space between door/frame is largely impeded. You really can't come at it it from above or sides with a flat bar to pry it open.

Of course, someone can simply rip down the shelves, but it's all about making more work for the bad guy to get at your goods. I made it a PITA. It's not impossible to break in, but it is trickier than if I had just bolted it down. Oh, and I did lag mine into the floor joists, and then built up a little raised lip around the bottom of the safe, so that, yet again, it's more work for someone to get at the bottom of the safe to pry it up.
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Old July 26, 2015, 11:23 AM   #7
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Lag screws into studs is cheap is likely to discourage most attempts. Or get
A square plastic tub that fits underneath the cabinet fill it with 80 lbs ofconcrete, place bolts in the wet cement, bolt the cabinet from inside. If you move nothing to repair.
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Old July 26, 2015, 11:59 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19-3Ben View Post
I'll concur with lagging into studs/joists. That will make it awkward for them to take off with the whole safe. But those safes aren't particularly well fortified against someone with a flatbar and sledge hammer popping the door open, so there's still some concern there. I have a light duty safe in my closet as well. I added things like metal racks/shelves all around it on the sides and protruding past the front of the safe. I left enough room for the door to safely and easily swing open, but getting any kind of good angle to attack hinges or the space between door/frame is largely impeded. You really can't come at it it from above or sides with a flat bar to pry it open.

Of course, someone can simply rip down the shelves, but it's all about making more work for the bad guy to get at your goods. I made it a PITA. It's not impossible to break in, but it is trickier than if I had just bolted it down. Oh, and I did lag mine into the floor joists, and then built up a little raised lip around the bottom of the safe, so that, yet again, it's more work for someone to get at the bottom of the safe to pry it up.
Ive done similar things and agree with the idea.
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Old July 26, 2015, 12:23 PM   #9
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The trick to through bolting into a floor or deck surface when you can't get to the back side (blind installation) is to use heavy toggle bolts the way we do when mounting deck chairs on boats. Any good quality marine hardware store will stock "Togglers". Once in place you'd have to rip out the floor to tear out the safe if you couldn't open it to unscrew the bolts....

Hope this helps.
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Old July 26, 2015, 01:29 PM   #10
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Suspect the weight and a lock on the closet door will do. Criminals are too lazy to lug 168 pounds and getting past a lock will be noisy. And 20x20x55 would be decidedly awkward to haul out.
You could bolt it to the side walls instead of the floor if you really think it needs it.
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Old July 26, 2015, 02:25 PM   #11
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If it is not wide enough to hit floor joists, screw it to a piece of wood that is. Place it in a corner where you can also lag into corner framing. At only 168#, this isn't going to stop a determined thief, but should stop a smash and grab kid.
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Old July 26, 2015, 02:44 PM   #12
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You could also use "one-way" lag bolts. It's possible that a thief might be carrying the special removal tool, but unlikely. It's just another layer of security.

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Old July 26, 2015, 02:57 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemaymiami View Post
The trick to through bolting into a floor or deck surface when you can't get to the back side (blind installation) is to use heavy toggle bolts the way we do when mounting deck chairs on boats. Any good quality marine hardware store will stock "Togglers". Once in place you'd have to rip out the floor to tear out the safe if you couldn't open it to unscrew the bolts....

Hope this helps.
We use something similar to fasten grab bars to fiberglass tubs. These are rated at 300 Lbs each and would be just as strong as lags into the joists.

http://www.wingits.com/details.php?id=90
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Old July 26, 2015, 03:53 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G11354 View Post
it seems the floor joists may be spread to wide for the safe.
That's unlikely unless your joists are 24" OC, which is rare. Normally they're 16" OC in which case you should be able to access at least one joist.
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Old July 27, 2015, 12:23 AM   #15
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You only need one floor joist and one stud. Should stop the average thief. Nothing will stop the expert.
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Old July 27, 2015, 12:37 AM   #16
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Good suggestions with lagging it to the studs....Have you considered making a false wall to actually hide the safe from view? I helped a friend do this with his safe. If you go that route you don't show anyone where it is or it won't be a secret any longer.
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Old July 27, 2015, 06:35 AM   #17
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I really appreciate the help everyone! I'll likely try to anchor the safe to the wall and floor as it seems the most financially sound route.

Again, thank you for the help.
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Old July 27, 2015, 10:50 AM   #18
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I used 6 each 4 3/8" lag bolts into the wall studs. As I could get below the floor there are 2 carrage bolts that go to the basement and through a 2X6 between the floor joists.
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Old July 27, 2015, 04:07 PM   #19
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Don't lag it to the floor joists, that involves putting a big hole in piece of structural lumber...


Just drill some holes in the flooring, not in the joists, and use toggle bolts to secure it to the floor. At the end of the day, if someone is going to go through the trouble to get out a safe that is secured that well, they are more than welcome to it's contents.

You'll never make something truly theft proof, but that is more than enough security to deter, well, pretty much anyone.
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Old July 27, 2015, 08:12 PM   #20
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Bolt it to the wall studs.
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Old July 27, 2015, 08:24 PM   #21
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Diameter of the bolts being equal you will have to make a larger hole for the toggle.
One 5/16 lag front and back in a joist plus a couple in each of two sides in a stud will be quite secure.

Many houses will have base board trim and carpet so you'll need to shim out at the walls so you can draw the side and back wall bolts tight. If there is carpet use small finish nail to find the joist then a nail set hammered into it for a pilot hole for the lag so you don't snag the carpet with a drill bit. Especially if it's a rental.
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Old July 27, 2015, 08:37 PM   #22
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I like the idea of a concrete poured in a tub and bolt down to it. Lag bolts into the wall, and above all.

HIDE THE KEYS BETTER THAN I DID!

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Old July 27, 2015, 10:08 PM   #23
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Two guiding principles:

-- A thief won't try to steal what he does not know is there, so consider making it look unimportant, like a shoe rack. This would not fool an FBI search, but thieves are generally fairly stupid.

--Do not tell anybody about it. There is an old Russian proverb to the effect that two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead. Putting the kinder interpretation on this one (assuming that it doesn't mean you are supposed to kill anybody who knows your secret), it means don't go blabbing about it to anybody. At all.
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Last edited by Dmath; July 27, 2015 at 11:28 PM. Reason: clarify.
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Old July 28, 2015, 03:21 AM   #24
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Most people tend to believe what they see. I've transported guns on public transportation in marked Venetian blind boxes, much better than one that says Marlin.

Find a marked box that fits over it, cut out the back to fit, in addition to your bolts.
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Old July 28, 2015, 07:14 PM   #25
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I agree with the votes for anchoring it to a stud and especially with taking effort to hide it well. I think hiding it is even more important than anchoring it.

A criminal may decide to attack the safe through a breach attack (and possibly but less likely, lock manipulation) instead of attempting to remove it altogether. If so, that's very bad as the safe may only provide seconds of protection. So the better it is hidden, the more amount of time that is bought, and the more time the better.

So IMHO, taking effort to ensure the criminal is not capable of finding the safe is absolutely critical.
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