How to do the World's best oil finish - Page 4

BMC · February 10, 2008, 05:41 PM

CZguy:
Does that Remington have any stain or just the MAO?

CZguy · February 10, 2008, 06:26 PM

No stain, just the Minwax Antique Oil Finish.

Mackinac76 · March 14, 2008, 12:12 PM

This is an update top a few posts I made a few weeks ago on refinishing my Rem 700 stock with Minwax Antique Oil. In general, I'm pleased with the results, although I grossly underestimated the amount of time and work involved, and I'm still not finished. I have followed the procedure outlined by dfarriswheel at the start of this thread. I have applied 4 coats of the filler stage and 8 coats that are allowed to dry and then get steel-wooled off.

I do have two comments/questions.

1. I estimate that about 95 % of the grain is filled at this stage and the remaining 5 % will never be filled. I seem to have reached the point of diminishing returns. I think the stock looks great (or at least as good as this particular piece of walnut can look). Is is common to have some elusive grain that cannot be filled?

2. I have noted from the earliest stages of finishing the final 8 coats, that fingerprints are easily left on the bare wood, and, it's very difficult to wipe them clean without using steel wool. Each time, I have made sure that the finish was completely dry and this happens only after the dried finish is completely steel wooled from the stock. I've had other individuals also leave prints just to assure myself that I don't have some unusual sweat or oils on my fingertips. Is this typical?

Please don't discount that I maybe I'm being anal about this. Maybe I'm just too fussy.

dfariswheel · March 14, 2008, 05:40 PM

On some wood there does seem to be some grain that just WILL NOT fill.
I've got a thin "streak" of open grain on my Marlin that simply refused to fill.
Whether this is some type of contamination, or just something about the wood I don't know.

I've seen it on several other walnut stocks. In each case, the wood had been previously finished with an oil finish.

As for the finger prints, this is something you see on extremely smooth surfaces.
I recommend giving the finished wood a good buffing with NEW, CLEAN burlap.
Go to the fabric store and buy a yard or 1/2 yard.
Cut it up and make a 3 or 4 layer buffing pad.
Use that to briskly buff the wood, being careful not to "burn" or wear through the surface on sharp corners or edges.

Then, apply a couple of coats of Johnson's Paste Wax.
Allow the wax to dry 20 minutes after application before buffing it off with a soft cloth.

This will protect the wood, but like all slick surfaces, it may show fingerprints.
To maintain, just use wax.

Mackinac76 · March 14, 2008, 10:14 PM

Thanks, dfariswheel for the sound advice. I was wondering whether a wax coating would help. I'll finish soon and head to the burlap polishing stage.

As I said, I'm pretty happy with the finish and it does look much better than the original.

BMC · March 16, 2008, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dfariswheel

After three coats as a sealer, apply a thin coat and allow to dry BONE DRY on the surface.
This may take 24 hours or more, and in some cases of really open grain wood, the first may not dry at all.
Using finer steel wool, steel wool the finish off the wood. As you steel wool, the surface coat will turn "muddy" looking so you can see it.
Be careful around proof stamps and sharp edges to not round edges off or thin stamps.

After steel wooling the stock down to bare wood, clean the stock with brushes or compressed air, then apply another coat, allow to dry and steel wool off.
Continue this until the grain of the wood is 100% FULL, and you can see NO open grain.
When held up to a light and sighted along the grain, open grain will look like tiny scratches in the surface.

Can you clarify something for me?
First three coats (sealer) were sponged on, wait 5 - 10 minutes, wiped off. Left to dry, came back the next day and repeated. Fourth coat was left on overnight (dried just fine), bronze wooled off. Here's where I need some help. Twice I have bronze wooled it down so there is absolutely no gloss, everything is matt finish. Should i be leaving the "shinies" in the "small scratches" that you refer to as open grain? I put the third coat on this morning and it is already dry to the touch. I think I'll wait until tomorrow to take it off just to make sure it is dry.

dfariswheel · March 16, 2008, 05:50 PM

Unless you actually sand it down, the "shinnies" will still be in the wood grain.
This is normal, just keep applying coats until the wood grain fills all the way up.

As long as you can see the shinnies, the wood grain isn't full. Keep working.

As the wood fills up, the Minwax will dry faster and faster, and you can apply coats more often

BMC · March 30, 2008, 10:53 PM

More pics of a Minwax Antique Oil Finish

Before

Some afters

Thanks dfariswheel for your time and experience and to others for their patience. It took several filler coats (ten), just kept going until 99% of the grain looked filled.

Jason_G · April 21, 2008, 10:12 PM

BMC, is that wood spaulted?

Jason

BMC · April 27, 2008, 12:28 PM

Quote:

BMC, is that wood spaulted?

Jason G:
Sorry I didn't reply sooner. If that spelling is correct, I don't know the term.

CZguy · April 27, 2008, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Sorry I didn't reply sooner. If that spelling is correct, I don't know the term.

Now I'm curious, what does it mean.

mrmeval · April 27, 2008, 06:42 PM

I get more hits with spalted.

http://www.langcaster.com/Lancaster.Images/LT15-BIG.jpg

Search for spalted in this page and look at the 1911 grips
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthre...=113955&page=3

Wood with fungal or bacterial rot, those are killed and the wood stabilized as it can be weak. It looks like that stock my qualify though it may have happened after it was placed on the gun.

LiquidTension · June 29, 2008, 07:39 PM

Nah, he just ran out of stain

I'm going through my second refinishing project now. First I did was a Savage 85A and it turned out really nice. Now I'm doing my Yugo SKS.

jwmtx · September 11, 2008, 05:23 PM

Sir, I missed the pictures of your stofk refinish with the Min wax. I wonder if you would tell me what the finished product looks like. Does it give it a shiny, glossy finish. I do have your instructions for doing it, but have no idea what it looks like. I just got an old 39A and need to refinish the stock. Thank you. James

dfariswheel · September 11, 2008, 07:05 PM

Check page two of this discussion, the pictures are there.

The finish can be either a gloss or the famous "eggshell" luster oil finishes are known for.
If you leave a surface coat of the Minwax on, it will have a gloss look.
Steel wool it off and buff with burlap gives the eggshell luster as shown in the photos on page two.

HankB · September 11, 2008, 10:58 PM

Old thread . . .

The finish looks good, but I'm not convinced this statement is accurate:

Quote:

It's a REAL oil finish that looks like those seen on British double guns and American custom rifles.

When something like the Minwax product says "oil finish" . . . the word "finish" is generally an indicator that the stuff has something other than solvent and oil in it - usually varnish or polyurethane or something. Yes, it probably DOES have oil (tung or linseed) in some percentange, but as good as it looks, it's not genuinely a "real" oil finish.

Someone brought up the presence of cobalt compounds . . . these are drying agents, which helps the finish to, well, dry faster. When I refinish a stock, most often with pure tung oil, I usually add a bit myself - you can get it at Home Depot where it's sold as as "japan drier."

win71 · September 12, 2008, 12:01 AM

I believe "oil" finish is just that. Tung oil is a naturally drying oil. Boiled linseed, or unboiled for that matter, is also somewhat of a drying oil. Most anything labeled "Oil Finish" is a combination of oil and some type of dryers. Varnish is an example of partial oil finish with a lot of dryers.

Tung oil dries harder than linseed oil. I have used pure tung oil on a re-finish job on an old Parker shotgun. The goal being to get the stock as close to the same as the forend which due to metal and wood ware could not be properly refinished. It took about 13 coats, all were cut 50% with turpentine.
An old favorite with furniture makers was 1 part tung oil, 1 part varnish, and 1 part turpentine. I haven't tried it on gunstocks yet but I imagine it would be similar to slow drying varnish.

HankB · September 12, 2008, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Varnish is an example of partial oil finish with a lot of dryers.

Varnish typically is comprised of some sort of resin and a solvent. (Turpentine, mineral spirits, etc.)

win71 · September 12, 2008, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Varnish typically is comprised of some sort of resin and a solvent. (Turpentine, mineral spirits, etc.)

Actually you've hit it almost right on the head. I inadvertently used the term "driers" to mean
anything that aided drying, whether by evaporation or chemical / polymerization.

A varnish composition suitable for producing a liquid crystal aligning film
having a thickness of several tens to one hundred nanometers having 1 to
10% by weight of polyamic acid or soluble polyimide, and 90 to 99% by
weight of a solvent which comprises 5 to 80% by weight of at least one
compound selected from a group of solvent components A and 20 to 95% by
weight of at least one compound selected from a group consisting of
component B and component C where the group of solvent components A
consists of N-methyl-2-pyrrolidone and dimethylimidazolidinone and the
component B is alkyl lactate, and the component C is
R1-O(C3H.sub.6 O)nH (I)
where n is 1 or 2, R1 is an alkyl group having 4 carbon atoms when n
is 1, and R1 is an alkyl group having 1 to 4 carbon atoms when n is
2, is disclosed.

Thanks for helping clear that up. As I get older I seem to confuse myself by either thinking too much or not enough.........

rondog · September 13, 2008, 02:00 AM

Hmmmm, I'm about to start working on refinishing my Mosin 91/30 wood, has anybody done this to one of those? Mine's kinda blondish-looking, any tips on removing the old finish and cosmoline? I read the earlier tip, what's "whiting"? Any ideas about what might be a better-looking stain for this?

HankC · September 13, 2008, 09:45 AM

How this techinque apply to laminated stock? I have couple Boyd's laminated stocks need to be finished, wonder if I can apply this method here. Thanks

Oldnamvet · September 13, 2008, 11:44 AM

In answer to the earlier question about whiting.

Whiting
Powdered and washed white chalk (calcium carbonate), used in putty, metal polish, whitewash and sometimes added to paint to improve the paint's opacity.

Look for it at a paint store or a stained glass store. It is also used to soak up putty oils when installing stained glass using lead came. Seems to end up everywhere (fine dust) when you use it.

Also, laminated stocks are still wood. If the old finish is removed for some reason, I see no reason this would not work.

HankB · September 14, 2008, 12:22 AM

Quote:

A varnish composition suitable for producing a liquid crystal aligning film
having a thickness of several tens to one hundred nanometers having 1 to
10% by weight of polyamic acid or soluble polyimide, and 90 to 99% by
weight of a solvent which comprises 5 to 80% by weight of at least one
compound selected from a group of solvent components A and 20 to 95% by
weight of at least one compound selected from a group consisting of
component B and component C where the group of solvent components A
consists of N-methyl-2-pyrrolidone and dimethylimidazolidinone and the
component B is alkyl lactate, and the component C is
R1-O(C3H.sub.6 O)nH (I)
where n is 1 or 2, R1 is an alkyl group having 4 carbon atoms when n
is 1, and R1 is an alkyl group having 1 to 4 carbon atoms when n is
2, is disclosed.

Looks like it was taken from the specification of a patent - are you the inventor?

win71 · September 14, 2008, 01:38 AM

Yes and no, but it does substantiate your solvent and probably resin claim.

p_jackson · October 10, 2008, 08:25 AM

I signed up for this forum so I could take the time to thank dfariswheel for his instruction how to finish a stock. I used my 30+ year old pellet gun stock and was simply amazed at the end result. Hard as rock, this finish survived a 3 foot fall onto concrete with NO detectable harm. Great thread-should be a sticky.
Thanks again-Pete

February 10, 2008, 06:26 PM	#77
CZguy Member Join Date: March 25, 2004 Location: Missouri Posts: 3,895	No stain, just the Minwax Antique Oil Finish. __________________ "When one engine fails on a twin-engine airplane you always have enough power left to get you to the scene of the crash." "Directions to heaven. Turn right, and go straight."

March 14, 2008, 12:12 PM	#78
Mackinac76 Member Join Date: December 16, 2007 Location: Southwestern Michigan Posts: 12	Minwax Antique Oil follow-up post This is an update top a few posts I made a few weeks ago on refinishing my Rem 700 stock with Minwax Antique Oil. In general, I'm pleased with the results, although I grossly underestimated the amount of time and work involved, and I'm still not finished. I have followed the procedure outlined by dfarriswheel at the start of this thread. I have applied 4 coats of the filler stage and 8 coats that are allowed to dry and then get steel-wooled off. I do have two comments/questions. 1. I estimate that about 95 % of the grain is filled at this stage and the remaining 5 % will never be filled. I seem to have reached the point of diminishing returns. I think the stock looks great (or at least as good as this particular piece of walnut can look). Is is common to have some elusive grain that cannot be filled? 2. I have noted from the earliest stages of finishing the final 8 coats, that fingerprints are easily left on the bare wood, and, it's very difficult to wipe them clean without using steel wool. Each time, I have made sure that the finish was completely dry and this happens only after the dried finish is completely steel wooled from the stock. I've had other individuals also leave prints just to assure myself that I don't have some unusual sweat or oils on my fingertips. Is this typical? Please don't discount that I maybe I'm being anal about this. Maybe I'm just too fussy.

April 27, 2008, 06:42 PM	#87
mrmeval Member Join Date: October 2, 2004 Posts: 1,768	I get more hits with spalted. http://www.langcaster.com/Lancaster.Images/LT15-BIG.jpg Search for spalted in this page and look at the 1911 grips http://forums.1911forum.com/showthre...=113955&page=3 Wood with fungal or bacterial rot, those are killed and the wood stabilized as it can be weak. It looks like that stock my qualify though it may have happened after it was placed on the gun. __________________ http://www.thehighroad.us is where you will now find Oleg Volk

September 11, 2008, 05:23 PM	#89
jwmtx Member Join Date: May 11, 2008 Posts: 30	Dfariswheel Sir, I missed the pictures of your stofk refinish with the Min wax. I wonder if you would tell me what the finished product looks like. Does it give it a shiny, glossy finish. I do have your instructions for doing it, but have no idea what it looks like. I just got an old 39A and need to refinish the stock. Thank you. James

September 12, 2008, 12:01 AM	#92
win71 Member Join Date: February 8, 2005 Posts: 586	My experience too I believe "oil" finish is just that. Tung oil is a naturally drying oil. Boiled linseed, or unboiled for that matter, is also somewhat of a drying oil. Most anything labeled "Oil Finish" is a combination of oil and some type of dryers. Varnish is an example of partial oil finish with a lot of dryers. Tung oil dries harder than linseed oil. I have used pure tung oil on a re-finish job on an old Parker shotgun. The goal being to get the stock as close to the same as the forend which due to metal and wood ware could not be properly refinished. It took about 13 coats, all were cut 50% with turpentine. An old favorite with furniture makers was 1 part tung oil, 1 part varnish, and 1 part turpentine. I haven't tried it on gunstocks yet but I imagine it would be similar to slow drying varnish. __________________ There is no such thing as self defense; there is only offense and counter-offense --Tuhon Gaje I've traveled a long way and some of the roads weren't paved.

February 10, 2008, 05:41 PM	#76
BMC Member Join Date: July 22, 2007 Location: Minutes from the WSRC Posts: 20	CZguy: Does that Remington have any stain or just the MAO?

March 14, 2008, 05:40 PM	#79
dfariswheel Member Join Date: December 26, 2002 Posts: 5,760	On some wood there does seem to be some grain that just WILL NOT fill. I've got a thin "streak" of open grain on my Marlin that simply refused to fill. Whether this is some type of contamination, or just something about the wood I don't know. I've seen it on several other walnut stocks. In each case, the wood had been previously finished with an oil finish. As for the finger prints, this is something you see on extremely smooth surfaces. I recommend giving the finished wood a good buffing with NEW, CLEAN burlap. Go to the fabric store and buy a yard or 1/2 yard. Cut it up and make a 3 or 4 layer buffing pad. Use that to briskly buff the wood, being careful not to "burn" or wear through the surface on sharp corners or edges. Then, apply a couple of coats of Johnson's Paste Wax. Allow the wax to dry 20 minutes after application before buffing it off with a soft cloth. This will protect the wood, but like all slick surfaces, it may show fingerprints. To maintain, just use wax.

March 14, 2008, 10:14 PM	#80
Mackinac76 Member Join Date: December 16, 2007 Location: Southwestern Michigan Posts: 12	Thanks, dfariswheel for the sound advice. I was wondering whether a wax coating would help. I'll finish soon and head to the burlap polishing stage. As I said, I'm pretty happy with the finish and it does look much better than the original.

March 16, 2008, 05:50 PM	#82
dfariswheel Member Join Date: December 26, 2002 Posts: 5,760	Unless you actually sand it down, the "shinnies" will still be in the wood grain. This is normal, just keep applying coats until the wood grain fills all the way up. As long as you can see the shinnies, the wood grain isn't full. Keep working. As the wood fills up, the Minwax will dry faster and faster, and you can apply coats more often

March 30, 2008, 10:53 PM	#83
BMC Member Join Date: July 22, 2007 Location: Minutes from the WSRC Posts: 20	More pics of a Minwax Antique Oil Finish Before Some afters Thanks dfariswheel for your time and experience and to others for their patience. It took several filler coats (ten), just kept going until 99% of the grain looked filled.

April 21, 2008, 10:12 PM	#84
Jason_G Member Join Date: June 13, 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,874	BMC, is that wood spaulted? Jason

June 29, 2008, 07:39 PM	#88
LiquidTension Member Join Date: January 28, 2003 Location: SC Posts: 2,852	Nah, he just ran out of stain I'm going through my second refinishing project now. First I did was a Savage 85A and it turned out really nice. Now I'm doing my Yugo SKS.

September 11, 2008, 07:05 PM	#90
dfariswheel Member Join Date: December 26, 2002 Posts: 5,760	Check page two of this discussion, the pictures are there. The finish can be either a gloss or the famous "eggshell" luster oil finishes are known for. If you leave a surface coat of the Minwax on, it will have a gloss look. Steel wool it off and buff with burlap gives the eggshell luster as shown in the photos on page two.

September 13, 2008, 02:00 AM	#95
rondog Member Join Date: June 29, 2007 Location: Commurado Posts: 4,875	Hmmmm, I'm about to start working on refinishing my Mosin 91/30 wood, has anybody done this to one of those? Mine's kinda blondish-looking, any tips on removing the old finish and cosmoline? I read the earlier tip, what's "whiting"? Any ideas about what might be a better-looking stain for this?

September 13, 2008, 09:45 AM	#96
HankC Member Join Date: May 8, 2005 Posts: 291	How this techinque apply to laminated stock? I have couple Boyd's laminated stocks need to be finished, wonder if I can apply this method here. Thanks

September 13, 2008, 11:44 AM	#97
Oldnamvet Member Join Date: June 15, 2005 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,584	In answer to the earlier question about whiting. Whiting Powdered and washed white chalk (calcium carbonate), used in putty, metal polish, whitewash and sometimes added to paint to improve the paint's opacity. Look for it at a paint store or a stained glass store. It is also used to soak up putty oils when installing stained glass using lead came. Seems to end up everywhere (fine dust) when you use it. Also, laminated stocks are still wood. If the old finish is removed for some reason, I see no reason this would not work. __________________ In God we trust, everyone else we shall monitor. US Army, 1968-72. Americal Division, 196 LIB, RVN 1970

September 14, 2008, 01:38 AM	#99
win71 Member Join Date: February 8, 2005 Posts: 586	HankB Yes and no, but it does substantiate your solvent and probably resin claim. __________________ There is no such thing as self defense; there is only offense and counter-offense --Tuhon Gaje I've traveled a long way and some of the roads weren't paved.

October 10, 2008, 08:25 AM	#100
p_jackson Member Join Date: October 5, 2008 Location: Jackson CA Posts: 5	I signed up for this forum so I could take the time to thank dfariswheel for his instruction how to finish a stock. I used my 30+ year old pellet gun stock and was simply amazed at the end result. Hard as rock, this finish survived a 3 foot fall onto concrete with NO detectable harm. Great thread-should be a sticky. Thanks again-Pete