(Swiss) Army weapons "kill 300 people a year" (Mostly Suicides)

[Novus Collectus]

If someone wants to off themselves, they will. What would you do, there? Ban trains?

Nah, they'll just start with banning the bullet trains first.

[Mk VII]

Killias has a published a good deal of anti gun research in the past

[Sistema1927]

I have, unfortunately, witnessed my fair share of suicides. While those committed with firearms are normally messier (but not always) than other methods they are quick and relatively painless.

I have seen a few botched hangings and poisonings where you know that the deceased suffered terribly in their final minutes. If they take away the guns (like that's going to happen) despondent people will resort to other methods, amny of them very painful.

[PirateJoe]

i honestly don't know why the focus is on army weapons. they act as if suicides with non-army weapons (or knives or rope for that matter) end up any less dead than suicides with said army weapons.

[Wes Janson]

I have, unfortunately, witnessed my fair share of suicides. While those committed with firearms are normally messier (but not always) than other methods they are quick and relatively painless.

I have seen a few botched hangings and poisonings where you know that the deceased suffered terribly in their final minutes. If they take away the guns (like that's going to happen) despondent people will resort to other methods, amny of them very painful.

Quite right, but to those on the other side, life itself, no matter how painful, limited, or agonizing, is to be preferred over anything else. This cuts across traditional political boundaries.

[Sistema1927]

Quite right, but to those on the other side, life itself, no matter how painful, limited, or agonizing, is to be preferred over anything else. This cuts across traditional political boundaries.

I am fully in agreement with you. However, people who kill themselves are typically not thinking in a rational manner. If they want to end their life they will find a way to do it. The choice of weapon shouldn't be the focus, but rather working to help people work through the depression before it comes to this tragic end.

[wacki]

The majority, 60 per cent, of murders outside the home on the other hand involved illegal weapons.

Let me get this straight. Every able bodied man has a machine gun/assault rifle yet most of the murders are performed with illegal weapons? Anyone know what the most common illegal weapon is?

[wacki]

Japan has almost no gun ownership and absolutley no private handgun ownership, yet they have a higher suicide rate in Japan than we do in the US!

Just curious what is the best source for Japanese suicides? The CDC would be the best for US deaths obviously but the CDC doesn't cover Japan.

[LAK]

PirateJoe

i honestly don't know why the focus is on army weapons.

It is "army" weapons in private hands that are the first target of the change agents in the soon to be latest province of Europa called Switzerland. That is why "army" weapons are the subject focus of the change agent in question, comrade Killias.

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[Beagle-zebub]

nationmaster has data on suicide rates of nations, taken from a 1998 UN survey. America is about 11 per 100,000; Japan's is 23 per 100,000.

[MD_Willington]

Why is suicide any of the government's business? There's a disturbing Orwellian overtone in the notion that the state should take guns from people to make it harder for them to kill themselves.

It's because they can't collect taxes from dead people... Can't have the cash cow killing itself now can we...

[wacki]

nationmaster has data on suicide rates of nations, taken from a 1998 UN survey. America is about 11 per 100,000; Japan's is 23 per 100,000.

I get different results:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...tes-ages-25-34
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...tes-ages-15-24

Looks like Japan has a lower suicide rate in both.

[mdao]

Wacki:

Look up the data by sex, not by age groups. It'll show that the Japanese male suicide rate is a bit higher than the American male suicide rate, and that the Japanese female suicide rate is much higher than the American female suicide rate.

It's likely that cultural differences account for the differences in when and why the Japanese commit suicide when compared to Americans.

[spooney]

I would guess that United States Army weapons kill 300 people a year as well(exluding those killed in wars of course) should we stop the army from owning weapons as well?

[Fosbery]

I used to go to Switzerland quite regulariyl to shoot SLRs and pistols. Havn't been in a little while but I'm going again over Christmas

The Swiss I meet are very pro-gun in an apathetic sort of way. They're not passionate like a lot of Americans. When you ask them about guns they just shrug and say 'they're important.'

There are anti-gun Swiss though. I fear that the pro-gun Swiss, whilst large in number, will not have the vigour to resist gun control in years to come.

They have already suffered a full-auto transfer ban and restrictions upon concealed carry amongst other things.

They used to be issued 75 rounds of ammunition in a sealed container for emergency use. It may have gone down to fifty, I forget. Ammunition (which is always match grade) is dirt cheap and sold to civillians by the government.

Swiss ranges are like heaven to me. K31s, 510s, 550s, P210s, P220s...all loaded with match grade ammo with electronic targets and covered firing points with benches and even shooting beds that you lie down on to shoot from.

[Keith Wheeler]

It's likely that cultural differences account for the differences in when and why the Japanese commit suicide when compared to Americans.

Yes. Suicide in America tends to be linked to depression and sadness. In Japan suicide was considered for many years to be the only way to "save face" in certain situations. It is still highly romanticized. I've even seen a Japanese "how to" book on suicide. Check out what Yukio Mashima did.

Also look to Scandinavia for high suicide rates. Most medical folks tie it to depression from the long winter nights.

Obviously the suicide rate of a nation is not driven by access to firearms.

[crunker]

I believe that if someone feels so bad that they feel like their life should be ended, then that's their business.

What the Swiss should do is have some kind of moral/leadership course in their militia service.

[wacki]

mdao, I don't see a listing by sex. I don't even see a total.
http://www.nationmaster.com/cat/cri-crime

Software piracy losses * [ pie chart ] [ map ]
Software piracy rate * [ map ]
Suicide rates in ages 15-24 * [ map ]
Suicide rates in ages 25-34 * [ map ]
Suicide rates in ages 35-44 * [ map ]
Suicide rates in ages 45-54 * [ map ]
Suicide rates in ages 55-64 * [ map ]
Suicide rates in ages 65-74 * [ map ]
Suicide rates in ages above 75 * [ map ]
Total crime victims * [ map ]
Total crimes * [ pie chart ] [ map ]
Total crimes (per capita) *

[mdao]

wacki:

It can be found in the "Related Stats" sidebar for the suicide related stats.

Here's the link to them though.

Male suicide statistics.

Female suicide statistics.

[matis]

"So, the murderers cannot kill with kitchen knives or privately owned guns, just with government guns?"


I don't think you understand, El Tejon.

Although the Swiss do have better gun laws than most of the rest of Europe, they are still Europeans. And as Europeans they tend more toward socialism than do (some) Americans.

Socialists think that the government must provide the necessities of life. And in the Soviet Union, if you displeased the authorities sufficiently (e.g. dissented), they would take away your job (where you pretended to work and they pretended to pay you) and your apartment, and even your university degrees.


Following this reasoning , in order to commit murder or suicide you NEED a government gun and government ammo. And if they take them away, then you simply CANNOT commit such acts. Right?

Hope that clears it up for you, El Tejon.

Just PM me should you need anything else explained.

matis

[Novus Collectus]

Suicide rate in Japan was 26.1 per 100,000 in 1998. http://www.theforeigner-japan.com/ar...00304/news.htm

In 2003 it was 27 per 100,000 which is double 2003 US rates and more Japanese kids were committing suicide as well probably making the above stated figures for 1998 in another post no longer applicable. The age groups where the US suicides were higher in 1998 may now be about the same, or higher as well in Japan now. http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Japan/FG28Dh01.html

It is not the access to firearms that affects the rate, rather the people's determination to do the deed is the determining factor. When places like Johns Hopkins makes claims that kids are more likley to carry out their suicide because a gun is handy, well they obviously ignore Japan's figures where there are no guns when they make the anti-gun bias claims.

[Librarian]

There are also World Health Organization stats:

Japan 2003
Male 38/100,000
Female 13.5/100,000
Total 25.5/100,000

US 2002
Male 17.9/100,000
Female 4.2/100,000
Total 11/100,000

Switzerland 2002
Male 27.4/100,000
Female 12.5/100,000
Total 19.8/100,000

Or, the whole international table is available (years reported vary widely).

Trying to associate some aspect of guns with suicide rates is not especially useful, IMHO. Partially it's because measuring the number, prevalence, distribution of firearms is at present quite poorly done even here in the US, where there is an active and sometimes passionate academic research establishment in the area.